Help with a Witch Patron?


Advice


None of the Patron choices really jump out at me as, "Yes, must have this one." So I'm looking for friendly suggestions.

For an idea of the character, it'll just be your straight-forward "Offensive Debuffing" NE Half-Elf Witch - No Archetypes or PrCs.

Liberty's Edge

Well, Enchantment and Insanity are probably the best debuffing patrons, but I've always thought the time patron to be one of the strongest all around. Between Haste, Threefold Aspect, Teleport, Disintegrate and Time Stop, I find you can actually get a lot of use out of the bonus spells, even if you're a debuff build.

Grand Lodge

Shadow gets you quite a few spells witches don't usually get.


I like the healing patron for the always useful restoration spells. Not the best fit for a NE witch, though.

Shadow and Time were already mentioned and both are good choices. For an evil witch, Plague also looks quite good with access to animate dead.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Ms. Pleiades wrote:

Shadow gets you quite a few spells witches don't usually get.

Aren't all patron spells normally not on the Witch class list?


No, quite a few of them are already on the witches spell list. Saves you the trouble of getting them via scroll or another witch but other than that, a few patrons are mostly redundant.


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Bellona wrote:
Aren't all patron spells normally not on the Witch class list?

In a perfect world where Paizo wouldn't waste a lot of paper this would be the case. Sadly, many patrons are total crap because they give you only very few new spells. Like Portents, 8 of 9 spells are already on your spell list.

Also, sometimes you get spells from your list earlier then normal (and while the rules don't explicitly say it, presumably at a lower spell level).

A witch has the worst spell list of all full casters. Therefore, you want a paton that gives you stuff you are lacking. Plus, you don't really need 15 single target mind-effecting will-negates spells (you have hexes for that).

Relevant (IMO) patrons are:

Agility: haste @6, freedom of movement @8, ethereal jaunt @14
Deception: invisibility @4, blink @6, time stop @18
Shadow: silent image @2 and many of those shadow evocation/conjuration spells that are so much better for witch than for wizard
Spirits: invisibility @4, ethereal jaunt @14, ehterealness @18
Time: silence @4, haste @6, disintegrate @12, time stop @18
Transformation: If you are allowed to use pre-change scarred witch doctor
Trickery: mirror image @4, mislead @12, reverse gravity @16, time stop @18
Wisdom: magic vestment @6, spell turning @14, mage's disjunction @18

This handbook has a nice list with every spell already on the witch spell list marked.


That handbook is *significantly* more helpful than the other ones I've read! Thanks for the share. :)

Ended up going with Deception. Thanks everyone!


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Arguably, shaman has a worse spell list than witch among the full casters. It's pretty depressing, even if they have the Lore spirit (wandering or otherwise) to work around it a little.


Witch/Shaman/Etc are like, the best spell lists for low-magic games. They just look awful compared to the "god-list" that is Wiz/Sor.


My witch went with Fate and it's been very helpful so far.

2nd — doom, 4th — anticipate peril, 6th — helping hand, 8th — blessing of fervor, 10th — greater forbid action, 12th — contingency, 14th — jolting portent, 16th — maze, 18th — wish.


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Makarion wrote:
Arguably, shaman has a worse spell list than witch among the full casters.

I agree. I also find the Witch list far more fun to play with than the Cleric/Oracle list. Arguably less powerful, but much more fun.

Trickery patron is my favourite. Illusions are fantastic.


Tsukiyo wrote:
Makarion wrote:
Arguably, shaman has a worse spell list than witch among the full casters.

I agree. I also find the Witch list far more fun to play with than the Cleric/Oracle list. Arguably less powerful, but much more fun.

Trickery patron is my favourite. Illusions are fantastic.

Indeed! I'm actually about to start playing a witch next week. I really considered shaman (in good part because of the better skill selection and +2 points/level), but that spell list, ugh. Just couldn't do it. The vibe's all wrong, frankly: badly neutered and bland, somewhere indistinct halfway between druid and witch.

You know it's bad when you're considering hexcrafter magus because the spell list might be more colourful. Shaman has a lot of flavour, I think, but the spell selection is solidly beige.


The Shaman spell list can be considered a chassis to build on. Between Wandering Spirit spells, the Human (and by extension half-human) FCB to add Cleric Spells and Arcane Enlightenment they get access to a huge array of "must-have" spells.


I find the Endurance patroin interesting because it has the very unique result of Miracle as an Arcane Spell


Ley Line Guardian from OA turns the witch into a spontaneous caster with an interesting caster level boost ability. With the slumber hex and hair hex, shadow patron and healing spells on your spells known you can be a power house of battle field control with nearly endless options including support. Illusions are nearly always interesting and game changing but if they fail you, you can always fall back on 1d4 +1.5*int mod and poke them in the eye with your hair.

Grand Lodge

Key word your Looking for is:

Time Stop

This wins fights and end game is basically what High level Caster fights turns into. Cloudkill is a fun pairing with Time stop as it works with your Debuff theme. Other AOE debuff spells come in handy.

So:
Time
Fate
Trickery
Deception (not my favorite of the bunch)

Others worth mentioning if you refuse Time Stop:
Plague (Undead are a witchs worst nightmare this helps tremendously)
Shadow (As others have mentioned)
Occult (Same reasons as Plague to cover a weakness)

Shadow Lodge

I'm surprised no one mentions Miracle on the Endurance list.

Yes, Endurance isn't the best choice for in-combat spells, but it's a good list for a Cauldron/crafter witch.


See, I never consider spells beyond 5th level or so (maybe 6th) - campaings rarely last that long, since by that time the PF system just breaks down, even if RL has been kind to the scheduling of the various players. As such, Time Stop (although one of the 3 best spells in the game in my opinion) is not a consideration.


InVinoVeritas wrote:
I'm surprised no one mentions Miracle on the Endurance list.

I did, actually

Shadow Lodge

Entryhazard wrote:
InVinoVeritas wrote:
I'm surprised no one mentions Miracle on the Endurance list.
I did, actually

I completely missed that. My apologies.

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