I'm confused about Kassen's stuff.
Kassen has level inappropriate stuff lying openly in his sarcophagus. If anyone takes it, Kassen puts a curse on them. Then when they light the lantern, he appears all chummy and gives different level appropriate treasure.
1) If people have taken his stuff, does he still appear when they light the lantern? Is he surly and standoff-ish instead? Does he treat people with his stuff differently than the others (like not giving them scales?) Will he openly talk about why he's unhappy, or just let them figure it out?
2) How does he give people scales if someone's swiped the armor?
3) Where does the second batch of treasure come from? It seems kind of video-gamey to me...
I am bringing this up early because I'm certain that my group will take his stuff probably without even a thought to the idea it might be wrong to do so.
|
I'm confused about Kassen's stuff.
Spoiler:>>>Kassen has level inappropriate stuff lying openly in his sarcophagus. If anyone takes it, Kassen puts a curse on them. Then when they light the lantern, he appears all chummy and gives different level appropriate treasure.
>>If people have taken his stuff, does he still appear when they light the lantern? Is he surly and standoff-ish instead? Does he treat people with his stuff differently than the others (like not giving them scales?) Will he openly talk about why he's unhappy, or just let them figure it out?
I think this is a "put yourself in the shoes of the NPC" section for the GM. It's like an if/then statement. IF the party steals his precious items, and then tried lighting the lantern, I'd have him express his dissapointment in them and to correct it before giving them any blessing. I suppose there could have been some text noting that but it makes sense he won't suddenly befriend folks who wronged him. Still, he seems a good fellow. Like I said, I bet he'd gently remind them of their wrongdoing.
>>How does he give people scales if someone's swiped the armor?
If they swiped his armor I'm sure he'd remind them to put it back to get their reward.
>>Where does the second batch of treasure come from? It seems kind of video-gamey to me...
Ah, this part! :-) When I read it I said the same thing. I quickly decided they're in some super-secret compartment only he can open, maybe under his coffin. There's ways of workign it into the story!
>>I am bringing this up early because I'm certain that my group will take his stuff probably without even a thought to the idea it might be wrong to do so.
In that case, if they do, again I'd have him appear to warn them and give them a chance to correct their ways. Heck, if they still don't and you wanna make life real miserable maybe he'd even find a way to get word back to the villagers of their theiving ways and their life will be a mess. But yeah, if they steal, no blessing, no boon.
Hope that helps!
|
|
This might really be a super-dumb question, but
Spoiler:
>>>do the stairs in areas 4 and 9 of level 1 actually go somewhere? I've read only about half of the adventure and so far it seems that they have no real purpose.It's never addressed. It seems to me that they lead to each other, that it's a way to get from one part to the other by going under the passage they do.
|
Spoiler:It's never addressed. It seems to me that they lead to each other, that it's a way to get from one part to the other by going under the passage they do.
I don't think that's the case, as
While it's an interesting twist for a non-strictly linear dungeon, given the nature of the whole level - testing the skill of town heroes - a bit of railroady design would not be inappropriate at all. An over/under passage would allow for a lot of "skipping".
|
Where is it located? My map of Golarion doesn't show the river Tourondel (sp?) but I assume it's the river leading West out of the Lake and South of the wood that's labelled "Fangwood" (although the Southern part is also the Fangwood, of course), because Skelt is supposed to be at the "falls line" of the River Tourondel and that river is closest to Skelt (although on the Campaign Guide map, it's not really that close to any river). However, that river's journey through the Fangwood is mostly through Lastwall, not Nirmathas (wheras as I recall, the adventure is set in Nirmathas).
Jason says he intended for the passages from 9 and 4 to connect.
|
|
In terms of being the right level for the sequel, which of the three xp progressions are the modules assuming?
I tried finding the quote, but could not, so this is unofficial. I could have sworn Mr. Jacobs posted somewhere that Paizo products would assume the fast track as 3.5 was unless otherwise noted.
|
|
In terms of being the right level for the sequel, which of the three xp progressions are the modules assuming?I tried finding the quote, but could not, so this is unofficial. I could have sworn Mr. Jacobs posted somewhere that Paizo products would assume the fast track as 3.5 was unless otherwise noted.
That would make sense (although I think that it's something of a shame).
Can someone point out if there is a way to unlock the door in the southwest of room 6?
|
Question about the CR 1/3 skeletons....
The skeletons as presented in the module are CR 1/3 each. They had two attack options:
(Attack Option #1) Rusted Scimitar +0 (1d6) and Claw -3 (1d4+2)
or
(Attack Option #2) 2 Claws +2 (1d4+2)
I played them as Attack Option #2....each skeleton got two claw attacks at +2, which has potential to do 3-6 damage per attack, or 6-12 damage per round from each skeleton. Seems pretty powerful for a CR 1/3 creature.
I wiped the party out in two rounds with these things....am I playing that right? Should it just be one attack? The players were a little upset with me. :-)
Pathfinder Modules use the standard XP progression, not fast. This means the PCs probably won't be 3rd level at the end, but Masks of the Living God takes that into account at the start (even though it is written for 3+).
Jason says he planned to put a key for the door between 6/8 in area 2, or meant that door to be unlocked. Use whichever solution you prefer. :)
Pathfinder Modules use the standard XP progression, not fast. This means the PCs probably won't be 3rd level at the end, but Masks of the Living God takes that into account at the start (even though it is written for 3+).
Jason says he planned to put a key for the door between 6/8 in area 2, or meant that door to be unlocked. Use whichever solution you prefer. :)
Cheers.
|
|
Pathfinder Modules use the standard XP progression, not fast. This means the PCs probably won't be 3rd level at the end, but Masks of the Living God takes that into account at the start (even though it is written for 3+).
Excellent, thanks. That's what I prefer to play (standard progression) so it's handy that the modules are written that way.
Will the APs be on standard progression, too? What will that do to 3.5 users, if that's the case?
Creative Director
|
Pathfinder Modules use the standard XP progression, not fast. This means the PCs probably won't be 3rd level at the end, but Masks of the Living God takes that into account at the start (even though it is written for 3+).
Excellent, thanks. That's what I prefer to play (standard progression) so it's handy that the modules are written that way.
Will the APs be on standard progression, too? What will that do to 3.5 users, if that's the case?
For now, the APs assume the Medium (standard) progression. That means that folks who play the adventures with 3.5 will find that if their characters do all of the same exact things that a PRPG group does, and thus get the exact same amount of XP awards, will probably be gaining levels a little bit faster. That said, since the actual amount of encounters (and thus XP awards) a party does can vary quite wildly from group to group, even when they're all playing the same adventure, this should end up being a relatively insignificant variance. The GM is going to have to manage things either way, either by toughening up encounters or by sending the party on side quests to make up XP gaps or whatever.
|
|
[QUOTE="James Jacobs
For now, the APs assume the Medium (standard) progression. That means that folks who play the adventures with 3.5 will find that if their characters do all of the same exact things that a PRPG group does, and thus get the exact same amount of XP awards, will probably be gaining levels a little bit faster. That said, since the actual amount of encounters (and thus XP awards) a party does can vary quite wildly from group to group, even when they're all playing the same adventure, this should end up being a relatively insignificant variance. The GM is going to have to manage things either way, either by toughening up encounters or by sending the party on side quests to make up XP gaps or whatever.
I guess that as PFRPG characters are a bit more powerful, it might make sense for the 3.5 parties to advance quicker.
For myself, in the APs, I tend to bump the party if needs be, from time to time.
Jason says he planned to put a key for the door between 6/8 in area 2, or meant that door to be unlocked. Use whichever solution you prefer. :)
Another solution: There are 100 keys in the pool. What do the other 99 do?
However, when I thought about that, it occurred to me that some people will overthink the solution when they find the magic key and it doesn't unlock either door. They might start on the brute force method.
|
|
Where is it located? My map of Golarion doesn't show the river Tourondel (sp?) but I assume it's the river leading West out of the Lake and South of the wood that's labelled "Fangwood" (although the Southern part is also the Fangwood, of course), because Skelt is supposed to be at the "falls line" of the River Tourondel and that river is closest to Skelt (although on the Campaign Guide map, it's not really that close to any river). However, that river's journey through the Fangwood is mostly through Lastwall, not Nirmathas (wheras as I recall, the adventure is set in Nirmathas).
Anyone got an answer for this?
Where is it located? My map of Golarion doesn't show the river Tourondel (sp?) but I assume it's the river leading West out of the Lake and South of the wood that's labelled "Fangwood" (although the Southern part is also the Fangwood, of course), because Skelt is supposed to be at the "falls line" of the River Tourondel and that river is closest to Skelt (although on the Campaign Guide map, it's not really that close to any river). However, that river's journey through the Fangwood is mostly through Lastwall, not Nirmathas (wheras as I recall, the adventure is set in Nirmathas).Anyone got an answer for this?
There's some discussion about it in this thread.
The sidebar near the shadow says:
The PCs can use energy damage (such as from a burning torch) to hurt the shadow, but it only takes half damage from this source as well.
I am a bit mystified by this.
Incorporeal: Creatures with the incorporeal condition do not have a physical body. Incorporeal creatures are immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Incorporeal creatures take half damage (50%) from magic weapons, spells, spell-like effects, and supernatural effects. Incorporeal creatures take full damage from other incorporeal creatures and effects, as well as all force effects.
"immune to all nonmagical attack" means throwing alchemist fire or poking with a torch will be ineffective, right?
Even assuming this is wrong, a torch does 1 pt of fire damage. Half of that is 0. I realize that in 3.5 a successful attack is supposed to do 1 pt barring DR, but the PRD says:
Minimum Damage: If penalties reduce the damage result to less than 1, a hit still deals 1 point of nonlethal damage.
So at best you arrive at the illogical idea of a torch doing 1 pt of non-lethal fire damage to a shadow.
I didn't play the beta. Would this sidebar comment have made more sense then and was never updated?
For now, the APs assume the Medium (standard) progression.
So does that mean all the encounters in the module were designed for an APL of 1 and that we as DMs should adjust the encounters at the point the characters become 2nd level?
|
|
For now, the APs assume the Medium (standard) progression.So does that mean all the encounters in the module were designed for an APL of 1 and that we as DMs should adjust the encounters at the point the characters become 2nd level?
It looked to me as if the stuff on the second level was tougher, for 2nd level characters (as you level about when you finish the first dungeon level, with medium progression).
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
|
Where is it located? My map of Golarion doesn't show the river Tourondel (sp?) but I assume it's the river leading West out of the Lake and South of the wood that's labelled "Fangwood" (although the Southern part is also the Fangwood, of course), because Skelt is supposed to be at the "falls line" of the River Tourondel and that river is closest to Skelt (although on the Campaign Guide map, it's not really that close to any river). However, that river's journey through the Fangwood is mostly through Lastwall, not Nirmathas (wheras as I recall, the adventure is set in Nirmathas).
Hi there. I wrote the Nirmathas piece for the Campaign Setting, and the answer is:
The Tourondel is the river that runs on the north side of Nirmathas, between it and Lastwall. It has two tributaries bracketing Bloodsworn Vale.
The Marideth River is the one that runs along the south side of Nirmathas, flowing into Lake Encarthan at Tamran (see Tamran on p. 113 of the Campaign Setting). It has three tributaries, the southernmost near Kraggodan.
If the flavor text in the mod is referring to the river flowing *THROUGH* the Fangwood, it should be the Marideth. Given that one of the later mods in the adventure takes place in Tamran, this seems likely.
|
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
|
Reposting this from the other thread on the module, FYI:
Having reread the module last night, I don't think there's anything in there that suggests the river should be anything other than the Tourondel, the north-side river of Nirmathas. The flavor text indicates it is not far from Belkzen, which supports a northwestern frontier placement, as well as stating that it's a logging town downriver from Skelt.
If you are looking for a geographic spot for Kassen, bearing in mind that the poster map in the PCCS is not hyper-accurate, I would probably place it at around the point on the river where it crosses the dashed red line of the Lastwall border (and is also close to the southern tip of Belkzen). This is about the point where the river enters the vicinity of the Fangwood (and also near enough to the hills to support the short overland trip to get to the Crypt).
|
|
I'm confused about Kassen's stuff.
** spoiler omitted **
I received my copy, and I must say this is what also struck me as odd; it may be clear-cut for experienced GMs, but 20 years ago I might have just read the boxed text out loud without thinking about it too hard. I don't think it would have required too much space to include an entry/alternate description for parties who were struck by Kassen's curse (Kassen appears, lifts the curse, and then congratulates them).
I didn't get Ashkecker's point until I noticed that in the module Kassen's sarcophagus lies open, which is in my experience a "green light" for experienced players to get the stuff (closed sarcophagus = opening it would be tomb-robbing and generally a big no-no, open sarcophagus = something the PCs will sorely need in the adventure and/or "legal" treasure meant for the PCs). Hell, I could even see a Lawful character justifying that it's in everyone's best interests if that stuff is put into use, or at least borrowed to defeat the BBEG and then reverently returned back to sarcophagus. New players probably feel this way, too.
So, if this stuff was never meant for PCs to have, why flaunt it before their faces? I'm either going to let them borrow it for the final fight without any curse, or changing the sword and armor into normal, well-made equipment (i.e. decorated but not even masterwork items).
|
|
Otherwise this is a very good introductory module that has some really nice surprised there -- mostly basic stuff, but nice traps and ideas that might catch even an experienced player by surprise (that pool is just a great idea).
My biggest complaint is with the "hook" of the module; it may go over well with new players, but I know my players would find it very artificial and forced (we actually criticized James Wyatt's 'Dungeoncraft' articles about his Greenbrier campaign for this very same hook). So, no 'coming-of-age' rituals for my players; I'm likely going with 'Pathfinders-in-training' who are asked to go and look for a group of villagers who vanished in the vicinity of the tomb. Or maybe there are no vanished villagers; rather, the PCs will follow the trail of bandits (originally led by Razmir's priest) who stole something valuable from the village?
I received my copy, and I must say this is what also struck me as odd; it may be clear-cut for experienced GMs, but 20 years ago I might have just read the boxed text out loud without thinking about it too hard. I don't think it would have required too much space to include an entry/alternate description for parties who were struck by Kassen's curse (Kassen appears, lifts the curse, and then congratulates them).I didn't get Ashkecker's point until I noticed that in the module Kassen's sarcophagus lies open, which is in my experience a "green light" for experienced players to get the stuff (closed sarcophagus = opening it would be tomb-robbing and generally a big no-no, open sarcophagus = something the PCs will sorely need in the adventure and/or "legal" treasure meant for the PCs). Hell, I could even see a Lawful character justifying that it's in everyone's best interests if that stuff is put into use, or at least borrowed to defeat the BBEG and then reverently returned back to sarcophagus. New players probably feel this way, too.
Here's what I think I will do: have Kassen's ghost appear slightly earlier. During the fight, he will offer advice to the party and trade barbs with Asar. After it, he will give the party the stuff from his tomb he can bear to part with, the usual reward, but leave the armor and sword. I think this will make the battle more memorable.
It also solves the following problems:
1) It explains where the other stuff came from.
2) I won't feel bad cursing someone if they take the rest of the stuff after he's gone.
3) The book says, he will "reluctantly" talk about his time adventuring with Asar. In my mind, you can only reluctantly talk about something if someone prods you to talk. If I make it clear during the fight that he and Asar know each other better than you would expect, it should make someone ask about it.
|
|
Here's what I think I will do: have Kassen's ghost appear slightly earlier. During the fight, he will offer advice to the party and trade barbs with Asar. After it, he will give the party the stuff from his tomb he can bear to part with, the usual reward, but leave the armor and sword. I think this will make the battle more memorable.
It also solves the following problems:
1) It explains where the other stuff came from.
2) I won't feel bad cursing someone if they take the rest of the stuff after he's gone.
3) The book says, he will "reluctantly" talk about his time adventuring with Asar. In my mind, you can only reluctantly talk about something if someone prods you to talk. If I make it clear during the fight that he and Asar know each other better than you would expect, it should make someone ask about it.
Hmmm... that might actually work; I think it's better that the PCs get hold of these items before the final fight, because it's quite challenging (and knowing my players they will just plow onwards as they hate the "15-min. adventuring day"). And, like you said, they'd know which items are meant to be part of the reward and which are not (I'd still argue that Kassen would likely let PCs use his sword to vanquish his old nemesis -- especially if asked by a good-aligned PC to borrow it).
This and changing the backstory a bit (the PCs are local kids trained and sponsored by a retired Pathfinder who sends them to retrieve the stolen Everflame back from bandits) should make it all work really well for my group.
All in all this is a very good introductory module! :)
For now, the APs assume the Medium (standard) progression.
James, when you playtested this module with Jason early in the year did your group level up to 2nd level? I didn't seem to pick that up in the platest notes or Jason's blogs. While the encounters look tougher on the lower level, my group of 5 second level PCs looks pretty tough too.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
...I'm confused about Kassen's stuff.
** spoiler omitted **
In that case, if they do, again I'd have him appear to warn them and give them a chance to correct their ways. Heck, if they still don't and you wanna make life real miserable maybe he'd even find a way to get word back to the villagers of their theiving ways and their life will be a mess. But yeah, if they steal, no blessing, no boon.
my idea?
don't let the torch/lantern ever burn... that will show the people at town that they either didn't completed the quest or agraviate the elder spirit
Moltus Vargidan (CN male human sorcerer 5, sorcerer mentor)
I have a question regarding the first encounter in the adventure.
We have 3 orcs created using 'major image.' The module states that these orcs do imaginary damage, actually wounding characters until they make their will save or the orcs are killed. I was pretty positive major image doesn't work this way. If I do this, I'm going to get called on it - as I don't let my players use illusions like this in other games. If the orc actually hits a character, it isn't going to cause any pain (even if the caster does make blood appear on the character's clothes) and they are going to disbelieve the whole thing.
Am I understanding this correctly? Have others just gone with the way it was written or handled this differently?
Thanks!
Jonathan
|
|
I believe that the idea is that the players are going to be believing the wounds are real until they make a will save. Once they make the will-save then the wounds can be restored, but if you don't have them marking down the damage then they are going to know that it is fake. I treated this more as them believing they are wounds, the illusion can make them feel as if something touched them and if visually they see a wound there, then they will think they are hurt. They don't have to actually be injured at all from the fight, its just all in their minds.
I believe that the idea is that the players are going to be believing the wounds are real until they make a will save. Once they make the will-save then the wounds can be restored, but if you don't have them marking down the damage then they are going to know that it is fake. I treated this more as them believing they are wounds, the illusion can make them feel as if something touched them and if visually they see a wound there, then they will think they are hurt. They don't have to actually be injured at all from the fight, its just all in their minds.
But as far as I understand, this isn't how figments work. There will be absolutely no pain or sensation that they are being hurt. Plus, what happens when a character hits negative hps in imaginary damage?
I'm all for the story/concept behind this, it just opens a can of worms. If an illusionist in my game made an illusionary monster that attacked an npc, that illusion would be automatically disbelieved as soon as the monster actually hit and no damage was done.
Even if we ignore the fact that there is no pain. The illusionist can cover an area in illusionary blood, but can't put any wounds in place, as the character would just see the unbroken skin underneath.
Jonathan
|
|
Figment: A figment spell creates a false sensation. Those who perceive the figment perceive the same thing, not their own slightly different versions of the figment. It is not a personalized mental impression. Figments cannot make something seem to be something else. A figment that includes audible effects cannot duplicate intelligible speech unless the spell description specifically says it can. If intelligible speech is possible, it must be in a language you can speak. If you try to duplicate a language you cannot speak, the figment produces gibberish. Likewise, you cannot make a visual copy of something unless you know what it looks like (or copy another sense exactly unless you have experienced it).
You said there isn't the sensation of pain, but why not? See my emphasis above for the description of figments, the very first line is that it creates a false sensation. It can make people hurt.
Certainly the use of the spell pushes the edges of the ability, as it can't cause any damage, but the abilities of the spell would make people feel like they were being injured. It can cause pain, the visual and audible effects of combat.
I think the only real break from the spell is that when the creatures are hit they are allowing for a save to disbelieve when normally a figment disappears when hit(also the orcs use a different AC then the base figments have).
It plays well into the story and the only rule it breaks is that the things are a bit harder to detect, I don't see how this could be game breaking. If your players are ripping into you over a spell(that they won't even know what it is, it isn't as if they will be aware of the spell being cast to identify it) that is used to give more flavor to the game rather then to screw them over, and doing it in a way that you have to really stress over the details of it, my question would be about where the focus of the game is.
|
|
I actually circumvented this problem by making the orcs "real" (part of the Razmiran priest's "posse"). I understand why the backstory is what it is (i.e. for new and/or young players), but as I've already said, my own veteran players would find the whole 'coming-of-age-ritual' with illusions and traps crafted by local commoners a bit... too much to stomach. Ergo, the Razmiran "priest" has hired a gang of bandits and orcs who have looted the tomb and kidnapped locals; the PCs are Pathfinders-in-training who are sent on their first real mission to find out what has happened and who is behind it all. It's a bit of a cliché, but something I know my players find much more easier to "swallow"; not to mention that as this is a very good introductory adventure to the PF RPG rules, even grognards might prefer a relatively simple (but believable) campaign introduction.
That's my own take on it.
I just browsed through the adventure today, and one problem arose: The map of the town of Kassen and the number of inhabitants does not seem to correlate - the map shows 50-odd houses, while the town stats say there are 750 inhabitants, which would be 15 people to each house. Now, several of those houses are inhabited by a single person, from the descriptions given, and nothing indicates apartment buildings anyway. So I would go with a single family for each building, for a total of about 250 inhabitants at most.
Either the population of the town is off, or the map is just an approximation of the town. I would rather not reduce the population of the town, so the map is probably not to be read as a true map, but rather as a broad overview of the town, with Kassen having about three or four times as many houses as shown on the map. This explanation, while plausible, has its own problems, as the size of the town would have to differ significantly from the map given, and pinpointing individual buildings on that map seems to indicate it to be to scale.
Any ideas on how to handle that? Ignoring the map would be the easiest solution, but are there other ideas around ?
Stefan
I just browsed through the adventure today, and one problem arose: The map of the town of Kassen and the number of inhabitants does not seem to correlate - the map shows 50-odd houses, while the town stats say there are 750 inhabitants, which would be 15 people to each house. Now, several of those houses are inhabited by a single person, from the descriptions given, and nothing indicates apartment buildings anyway. So I would go with a single family for each building, for a total of about 250 inhabitants at most.
Either the population of the town is off, or the map is just an approximation of the town. I would rather not reduce the population of the town, so the map is probably not to be read as a true map, but rather as a broad overview of the town, with Kassen having about three or four times as many houses as shown on the map. This explanation, while plausible, has its own problems, as the size of the town would have to differ significantly from the map given, and pinpointing individual buildings on that map seems to indicate it to be to scale.
Any ideas on how to handle that? Ignoring the map would be the easiest solution, but are there other ideas around ?
Stefan
Add a couple of farms and homesteads just outside of town (like the farms in Sandpoint/ ROTR?