There are no Divine Caster classes that have a d6 HD. Clerics and Wizards are similar in that one automatically refers to them when describing the quintessential casters of either Divine or Arcane magic. a d6 HD (among other things) reflects that Wizards are a stronger choice for casting than a Cleric, who get a d8 HD and 3/4 BAB; they're intended to be proficient in both casting AND martial skills.
That got me thinking: What would a d6, 1/2 BAB Divine caster look like? Clerics already get full casting, spontaneous heals, and Domains. So what sort of class-feature casting synergy would need to come with a Divine Caster to warrant a d6 HD and 1/2 BAB?
Designing a D6 divine class is easy.... take a look at the 3PP and the various homebrews
The d6 cleric would have extra skill points and more class skills. The Fort save might suffer though. You could also think about stuff like: making a divine/holy symbol version of the wizard's arcane bond, granting some bonus feats, or some kind of ability to swap domains.
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The cleric spell list would need access to the defensive spells from wizard, like mirror image.
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Here's the divine caster I usually include in my campaigns:
Priest
- d6 HD
- 1/2 BAB
- Good Will save only
- 4 skill points per level
- Cleric class skills, plus all knowledges
- Channels per day scale by level (3 + Cha modifier + 1/2 level)
- Spontaneous casting of cure/cause wounds
- Gets 1 bonus spell slot for each domain
- Gains an additional domain at 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th levels
- Proficiencies: Simple weapons, light armor, favored weapon of deity
- Same starting wealth as cleric
- Spells: cleric spell list, Wis-based, memorized
Keep it simple, that's what I always say.
I've seen plenty of takes with nothing standing out to me as outstanding. How I imagine it would go to me is something along the lines of a fusion between the Cleric Rite Publishing's domain channeler: more domain abilities but same spell list. Its been said on another thread but the cleric is rather a 'bland' class in the sense that it doesn't exactly have a ton of class features. If domains were expanded for more abilities I think it could safely be a d6 HD class.
Here's the divine caster I usually include in my campaigns:
Priest
- d6 HD
- 1/2 BAB
- Good Will save only
- 4 skill points per level
- Cleric class skills, plus all knowledges
- Channels per day scale by level (3 + Cha modifier + 1/2 level)
- Spontaneous casting of cure/cause wounds
- Gets 1 bonus spell slot for each domain
- Gains an additional domain at 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th levels
- Proficiencies: Simple weapons, light armor, favored weapon of deity
- Same starting wealth as cleric
- Spells: cleric spell list, Wis-based, memorized
Keep it simple, that's what I always say.
You see... easy peezy! ;))
Although for the sake of variety and functionality I would scale down the channels but give a couple of bonus feats... also I dont necessarily think chaneling should be CHA based. Maybe make it a straight WIS modifier per day. Makes it more SAD.... could balance this with only 2 skill points per level.... forces investment in INT.. which would be more class appropriate anyway.
IMO Paizo really should bring over the Archivist.... a quality D6 caster with a different flavour
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Rest assured, if Paizo ever takes an official stab at it, it'll somehow explode into a 30-page class full of alternate features you can mix and match at every damn level. Kind of like how all the summoner needed was a few tweaks here and there to its spell list and some of the evolutions, but it mysteriously turned into an enormous unchained version. It's almost like Paizo makes their fixes as elaborate as possible for some reason, like they get paid to fill pages with...
Oh, wait. I get it now. ;)
In there defense, predefined eidolon themes are much more flavorful.
For what definition of flavor? Almost anything you can build with an Unchained Eidolon can be built with a Chained Eidolon.
I always thought that this Priest was pretty well balanced.
Heroes of Horror from 3.5 had a d6 divine caster named the Archivist. He was a prepared caster who could use both Cleric & Druid spells & kept a prayer book simular to the Wizards spell book. He also got some nice bonuses to knowledge skills. & enough skill points to make a decent monkey. One of my favorite classes.
D6
Skills: 4+Int/lvl
1/2 Bab
Good Will & Fort saves
All simple weapons
Light & Medium armor
No Shields
Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat
Int as the primary casting stat
9 levels of spells
Class Skills: Craft, Diplomacy, Heal, Linguistics, All Knowledge, Perception, Profession, & Spellcraft
a d6 HD (among other things) reflects that Wizards are a stronger choice for casting than a Cleric, who get a d8 HD and 3/4 BAB; they're intended to be proficient in both casting AND martial skills.
That's because curative magic is touch range, meaning you will need to get into the thick of things to bring someone back from the brink (I'm talking restorative magic as much as hitpoint curing).
Same with a number of attack options too.A d6 HD divine caster would need some way of delivering normally touch range spells at a decent range.
After that, give them a role outside of smacking things upside the head (probably a good set of skills and enough skillpoints to do something with it), and you are good.
A d6 divine caster would need strong, sustainable class features. Honestly, my vision of one would have a reworked domain system that was more akin to a combination of witch hexes and oracle mysteries. Or perhaps Spheres of Power where each domain grants a pseudo-at-will ability and has a number of talents you can learn to modify it.
Another priest. More domain stuff and a bit of paladin.
Sneaky Evil Stabby Evil Priest of Evil Evil. Fear, darkness and nasty. Has d8 but probably doesn't need it. For NPCs so balance is less important.
You could probably find another dozen with a quick Google.
A lot of these suggestions involve piling more Domains on, or else granting additional abilities in melee. I was thinking of a Divine Caster, whose only role is casting. More Domains isn't going to bring a Cleric to a Wizard's level. I did like the idea of a holy symbol that acts like a Spell Book.
How about a Class feature that makes half the damage dealt by any damaging spell cast from your spell list divine in nature, making it (just that half) not subject to resistance, SR, save for half, etc.
Or one that's like a boon from your deity while you're preparing spells, and you pick x spells per y levels, and any metamagic feats added to it have the spell level cost reduced by 1.
A ability that just adds damage to spells or helps apply metamagic isn't exciting at all or going to help the class much.
I never suggested adding domains. I suggesed a class that reworks them. Makes them something way better and flavorful. The witch is a great source of inspiration. She's a good example of a 9-level spellcaster with an inferior spell list to her peers, but makes up for it by having a cool, powerful class feature (Hexes).
Depending on what you exactly want, an archetype might be enough or not. You could mostly stick with the original cleric, but reduce her to d6 and low BAB, compensating by either:
a) an additional domain spell slot per level
b) roughly 4 bonus feats distributed over 20 levels
c) smite evil / good / chaos / law (depending on alignment), 1/day - less often than for a real paladin / antipaladin, but still noticeable
d) 3 revelations from a mystery related to one of the cleric's domains
e) spontaneous casting of any harmless spell (as indicated at the Saving Throw line)
Don't give too much. d6 and low BAB is not much of a drawback for a healer, buffer, summoner or negative energy channeler + necromancer. If someone wants to wade into melee battle, there is still the original cleric (or the warpriest, inquisitor, paladin...).
I think a good way to do it is via a Wizard archetype
Now I'm working on it
a d6 HD (among other things) reflects that Wizards are a stronger choice for casting than a Cleric, who get a d8 HD and 3/4 BAB; they're intended to be proficient in both casting AND martial skills.That's because curative magic is touch range, meaning you will need to get into the thick of things to bring someone back from the brink (I'm talking restorative magic as much as hitpoint curing).
Same with a number of attack options too.A d6 HD divine caster would need some way of delivering normally touch range spells at a decent range.
After that, give them a role outside of smacking things upside the head (probably a good set of skills and enough skillpoints to do something with it), and you are good.
Give then Channel Ray and Reach Spell then.
Heroes of Horror from 3.5 had a d6 divine caster named the Archivist. He was a prepared caster who could use both Cleric & Druid spells & kept a prayer book simular to the Wizards spell book. He also got some nice bonuses to knowledge skills. & enough skill points to make a decent monkey. One of my favorite classes.
D6
Skills: 4+Int/lvl
1/2 Bab
Good Will & Fort saves
All simple weapons
Light & Medium armor
No Shields
Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat
Int as the primary casting stat
9 levels of spells
Class Skills: Craft, Diplomacy, Heal, Linguistics, All Knowledge, Perception, Profession, & Spellcraft
An awesome character and an example of an excellently designed class IMO..... some good options but nit too fiddly and balanced.
For PF I would make it light armour.... an Archivist that wants Med armour or shield incurs a 25% chance of spell failure or similar... Dark Knowledge gave a good twist.
I think a good way to do it is via a Wizard archetype
Now I'm working on it
Heresy!!!... Burn him!!!
Carl Cramer wrote a d6 divine caster for us called the sacerdote.
Given the nature of the cleric spell list, the d6 HD, 1/2 BAB divine caster (hereafter referred to as 'priest'), needs expansions to his spell list to further define his abilities in battle. Many good buff spells exist on the existing list, but are no longer very effective as they are meant for use on the cleric only. So I might suggest heroism and greater heroism as additions outright. An idea I toyed with would be to give each priest certain specializations. Taking the idea that these are academics, each priest would begin with one area of specialization. Perhaps a priest of Gozreh studied nature, a Pharasmin priest the undead, two priests of Torag and Gorum studied war (one did so from the historical perspective, the other as a strategist), and so on. Each specialization would grant a bonus class skill and a set of spells added to their spell list, say one at each level. Over time, extra abilities would develop based on this first specialization. The priest of Gozreh would perhaps gain things like woodland stride, an ability over time to speak with any animal or plant, and things normally related to druids. The Pharasmin might develop the ability to detect the unliving at will, affect the incorporeal undead easily, and so on. The Gorum and Torag priests might gain abilities to inspire allies in battle, manipulate the movement of others on the battlefield, etc. I might suggest using the sorcerer bloodlines as a template for when powers are gained and the potency of them. At higher levels, they might gain a second specialization or even a third, though never as powerful as their first: bonus spells added to their spell list, maybe one or two powers added on tops.
This priest should retain spontaneous casting as the cleric, perhaps even be allowed to spontaneously cast their specialization spells. I'm not sure if channel energy or domains should be added on, in order to leave something for the cleric to do besides put on some chain mail and heft a mace, maybe reduced channelling? It would depend on the power of the specializations, I think.
Carl Cramer wrote a d6 divine caster for us called the sacerdote.
Sounds intruiging.... I might buy it
But this is my point... yet another 3PP D6 divine class and yet Paizo dont jump on board.... Why oh why?!?
Sounds intruiging.... I might buy it
Someone just did and I want to say we appreciate it.
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Sounds intruiging.... I might buy itSomeone just did and I want to say we appreciate it.
That would be me, and you're welcome. I always keep an eye open for d6 1/2 BAB divine casters :)
I actually started playing around with a D6 divine class that had no spontaneous cures/harms, no domains and no channeling.... really took it in another direction. The Apostle (great name I thought :)))
The class focussed on the schools of magic... the idea being that he represented a fragment of divinity and was specialised in one aspect of their gods magic. The class was massively squishy but very casty in return. He had access to the cleric list but had restrictions on one school, depending on their specialism.
It had as one of its class abilities "Essence of the Chosen" - I got the idea from the spell Bloodsworn Retribution.... in effect, the Apostle can when they are preparing their spells give up a number of their HP in blood, in holy(un) tribute to their god. Certain powers can then be used in return for these points. Better powers = more blood.
Very squishy (although it had a good Will save AND a bonus to Fort saves vs spells but NOT poison or any other FORT saves - so in effect kind of half way between a wizard and a cleric in their fort save).... but serious wrath of god, Indiana Jones style antics!
But be honest, when you visualise a D6 divine, you absolutely do think of something physically fragile but having immense inner strength.
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That would be me, and you're welcome. I always keep an eye open for d6 1/2 BAB divine casters :)Sounds intruiging.... I might buy itSomeone just did and I want to say we appreciate it.
I bought it too. I like priests, but I yet have to find the "right one".
Maybe Kobold Press' Theosophist is the most satysfying till now for me- but it's not a class.I would also like a friar-type unarmored bardic hybrid caster divine class.
I've actually done a d6, 4 skill point, more erudite/skill based "priest" based on the standard domains expanded into Spheres of Influence (akin to the 2E specialty priests) with sphere powers and a divine pool that is built on the arcanist chassis. Including the main stuff, it's 25 pages long, with the majority being the expanded domains into spheres. The VICAR character class description is up, but I need to add all the rest on.
I've actually done a d6, 4 skill point, more erudite/skill based "priest" based on the standard domains expanded into Spheres of Influence (akin to the 2E specialty priests) with sphere powers and a divine pool that is built on the arcanist chassis.
I remember reading it - some really good stuff.
Someone just did and I want to say we appreciate it.
Just bought it.... great work!!
Heresy!!!... Burn him!!!I think a good way to do it is via a Wizard archetype
Now I'm working on it
It's not that unprecedented, for example in the two Occult books from Paizo there are archetypes that change the Spiritualist and Occultist in divine casters.
It's not that unprecedented, for example in the two Occult books from Paizo there are archetypes that change the Spiritualist and Occultist in divine casters.
But from what I gather all it means is that their spells count now as divine rather than psychic... nothing really changes.
IMO it makes more sense to be a follower of Nethys (God of magic) than it does to be a wizard granting divine abilities....
It's not quite an innovation, but you could replace domains with the oracle's mystery and revalations.
It's not quite an innovation, but you could replace domains with the oracle's mystery and revalations.
A bit lazy..... if you gonna do the class, then do the class right!
As I said I was working to it as a Wizard archetype and I finally made a first draft. Link to the thread, critiuque appreciated