Familiars for Non-Spellcasters


Advice


I was wondering if non-spellcasters have much of a use for familiars or not; and even if they do, is it worth it to invest resources into acquiring one.

I saw that the Rogue can get one as an Advanced Talent after already investing in minor and major magic talents. Seems like a waste of talents to me, but maybe there is a reason for them to have one that I'm missing.

Anyway, just wondering if anyone knows of viable builds that actually utilize a familiar for something other than spellcasting.


Well, depending on the skill check you can roll twice (perception for instance) or have it aid another on you for +2

Scarab Sages

An Eldritch Guardian fighter's mauler familiar is deadlier than most animal companions.


If your familiar has the mauler archetype, they can become reasonably solid in melee. Eldritch guardian fighters take advantage of this well.


Hm. That's an interesting concept; and in line with what I'm looking for. I feel like, at that point, it's more of a variant animal companion though.

My interest in familiars lies more in that they can be tiny or even diminuitive and some of the perks that entails (hard to hit, hard to notice, fits in tiny spaces) are invalidated by the Mauler archetype.

I also like the idea of it still remaining intelligent and being able to discuss plans with the character. While the Eldritch Guardian is intrigueing, and I will look into it, is there a way to make the familiar valuable without increasing it's size? Something like Sneak Attack for the familiar would be what I'm looking for; a way for it's size (Stealth bonus) to aid it and it still be relevant in combat (Sneak Attack makes up for it's lack of Str mod). Combat doesn't have to be the only situation for it to be useful either, though the flat skill bonuses they impart don't seem worth it by themselves, so I'd be looking for something more.

I like the idea of an Imp familiar; small, can fly, intelligent. Almost like a miniature version of the character.

One of the problems I'm seeing is that most of the classes that grant a familiar are spellcaster classes, and just dipping for a familiar means the familiar won't continue to get better. The Eldritch Guardian is an exception I was unaware of. The Rogue talent I mentioned is halfway through his career, and is at -4 level; and requires investment in other talents that won't necesarily fit the theme of the final character.

Shadow Lodge

Choosen One Paladin can use Lay on Hands on another character without wasting a turn, and at level 11 the familiar can smite when you do.


Don't forget familiars grant you bonuses for simply having them. The greensting scorpion for instance gives +4 to initiative, as does Compsognathus, which is pretty damn powerful as a Mauler.


Also note that maulers don't have to be medium all the time - they can switch back and forth at will. So you can have a scorpion that fits in your pocket, increases your initiative by 4, and then when a fight comes, bam! Giant scorpion making your enemies soil themselves.

Improved familiars are also another great way to use the feature - get something with hands and speech, like a lyrakien azata or faerie dragon, and you can have it use wands, either to buff you or to use offensively against enemies. Then there's the silvanshee agathion, who I just love to imagine "laying on hands" by doing the happy kitty kneading massage. :)

They're fun just flavor-wise, too. Like a really smart pet.

Unfortunately, I do not know of any way for them to get sneak attack. The Bodyguard archetype is an interesting way to get a lot of benefit from them while they're still hiding in your pocket, though.


Valet Familiars are great for builds that get free teamwork feats.

Protector familiars are sort of like +2 to AC.

Mascot Familairs paired with Fate's Favored offer a lot as well.


If you're small then you can ride your mauler hawk familiar. The usefulness and cool factor should be obvious.

Shadow Lodge

Archetypes can change your Familiar into scouting, stealing know-it-all. Plus having a Familiar on a rogue is always having someone to give you a +2 with Aid Another on all skill checks.


Could be fun to have a easy to go flanking partner if you play a rogue or ninja. An inquisitor could use this to use "solo tactics". If somehow you get access to "Improved Familiar" there is a nice selection of familiar one might have such as the fairy dragon. A druid could use one and have one hell of a menagerie combined with his natural companion.

Familiar grant awesome bonuses (Compsognathus +4 to initiative anyone?), can carry object around such as your potions and scrolls. Familiar can also carry message, scout and sometime use spell like abilities.There is also a definitive "cool" factor to having a familiar.

Fastest way I know is either one level dip in a class that give a familiar, I must say that I do not advise to do this. The best way in my opinion is this:
You can arrange yourself to have 13 in Charisma, take skill focus (any knowledge you want) and then get the feat Eldritch Heritage at level 3, select the arcane bloodline bond and take a familiar.


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You can be a 5 int fighter that has a pet monkey that is a lot smarter than you (sage archetype) And once you can talk to it you can ask it for advice, then tell your party that "Mr. Banana says we should..."


A tumor familiar with the protector archetype becomes overpowered at level 5. It basically lets you take half damage all day long. A life shaman can get similar benefit from the protector archetype, but their familiar doesn't heal it off as fast.

Scarab Sages

Laiho Vanallo wrote:


You can arrange yourself to have 13 in Charisma, take skill focus (any knowledge you want) and then get the feat Eldritch Heritage at level 3, select the arcane bloodline bond and take a familiar.

I prefer Iron Will> Familiar Bond > Improved Familiar Bond myself. Iron Will is generally more useful than skill focus, and there is no need to have an above average CHA to pull it off.


Anyone know if Eldritch Heritage can qualify you for Aberrant Tumor?

Scarab Sages

Melkiador wrote:
Anyone know if Eldritch Heritage can qualify you for Aberrant Tumor?

Yes. It gives you the bloodline, with an effective sorcerer level of CL -2. The only requirement of the feat is Aberrant Bloodline. It works.


Melkiador wrote:
Anyone know if Eldritch Heritage can qualify you for Aberrant Tumor?

It does. Take the necessary Skill Focus, get Eldritch Heritage (Aberrant), then you need to take Aberrant Tumor as a feat.


So, it may take longer to grab Aberrant Tumor, but until it gets nerfed, combining it with the protector archetype is just too good to pass up.


I like the Familiar Bond route best so far. Iron Will isn't completely Useless, and I like that the Familiar is equal to your level instead of -2 for Eldritch Heritage or -4 if taken as a Rogue Talent.

I'm not sure about the Aberrant Tumor route because I'm not sure if you can upgrade your Tumor via Improved Familiar or not, and that is something I would want to do.

I did find a feat for adding Sneak Attack to your Familiar, Sneaky Familiar, but it's 3rd party. Our group is normally allowed to use 3rd party stuff, but wanted to get everyones opinion on if they felt it was broken or not, since 3rd party stuff seems fairly universally shunned here on the forums (sometimes for good reason).

It also specifically calls out the Arcane Bond class feature, so I'm not sure if the Familiar Bond route qualifies. I think the Eldritch Heritage route counts, but I'd rather just dip a level of Wizard/Sorcerer or some other class that actually gets the actual feature than wait and spend a bunch of feats. I'd get some low level spellcasting as well, about the same as taking the Minor/Major Magic talents. This would qualify me for the feat, but my familiar would level up based on my CL because it would be from the Familiar Bond feat.

I'd probably just dip one level of caster, but might dip a little deeper and consider going into Arcane Trickster if that is advised.

I'm liking the idea of a Rogue/Ninja type character (I'm thinking Unchained Rogue) that gets a familiar to be his partner in crime and both go around pick-pocketing, stealing, doing heists, etc.

Otherwise, I'm looking at taking the Ki Pool, Vanishing Trick, and Invisible Blade talents. Combined with a caster dip, I would have some uses of Vanish as a spell as well as can use Ki for more invisibility.

As for the familiar, I'm eyeing the Pilferer archetype. Familiars I'm interested in (all from Improved Familiar): Cacodaemon, Shikigami, Nycar, Pooka, Cythnigot, Quasit, Raktavarna, Ratling, or Imp Consular.

Is there a way to get a familiar to actually level up, gaining HD, skills, feats, etc, like an Animal Companion? I found the Diabolist prestige class that essentially does that for an Imp, but that class isn't quite fitting for the character.


RaizielDragon wrote:
I'm not sure about the Aberrant Tumor route because I'm not sure if you can upgrade your Tumor via Improved Familiar or not, adn that is something I would want to do.

To be clear, the Aberrant Tumor route has very little reason to go for Improved Familiar. Its big selling point is that it functions as +2 AC and damage redistribution while still being attached to you and having fast healing 5. So, it should stay attached to you almost all of the time.

I do expect this to get nerfed some day though. It's just really too good.


Fair enough. It doesn't fit the idea I'm forming now, but it still fits the original intent of the thread, which was uses for Familiars to non-spellcasters. :)

Perhaps I should start a separate thread for the character that's forming in my mind...

Scarab Sages

RaizielDragon wrote:


I'm liking the idea of a Rogue/Ninja type character (I'm thinking Unchained Rogue) that gets a familiar to be his partner in crime and both go around pick-pocketing, stealing, doing heists, etc.

If you want to make a Rogue with a familiar, the Carnivalist is an archetype that gives you a familiar at level one and allows you to share your sneak attack damage with the familiar, at the cost of a lower sneak attack progression. It is compatible with the Unchained Rogue.

RaizielDragon wrote:
Is there a way to get a familiar to actually level up, gaining HD, skills, feats, etc, like an Animal Companion? I found the Diabolist prestige class that essentially does that for an Imp, but that class isn't quite fitting for the character.

Two alchemist archetypes, the Promethean Alchemist and Homunculist do something similar with a Homunculus.


Familiars are great for unobtrusive scouting. Who's going to look twice at a random sparrow flying around? That holds true regardless of the master's class.

Although the OP was asking about uses of familiars for non-casters, I'd also like to point out that classes with healing spells can deliver them at range using a familiar as the designated "toucher", which can be quite handy. I had a cleric cohort once with a familiar for that exact reason.


Carnivalist looks ok. Saves me some feats, but at the cost of SA damage and talents. And the only feature I really like is the getting a familiar at first level. The rest I'm not so interested in, and are even a waste once I get Improved Familiar, since it's no longer an animal.

I was considering Alchemist as well as a Rogue. Get some invisibility-granting extracts, use Mutagen for Dex, take Vivisectionist for SA. Seemed like it could be a Rogue-lite.

Promethean Alchemist is pretty nice, but wouldn't stack with Vivisectionist and loses out on Mutagen (and isn't allowed to get it back with a discovery). It does allow leveling up the familiar though, for builds that care about that. Could be useful for a Mauler-archetype, though not sure if it qualifies for familar archetypes since it's more like a companion.

For the Homunculist, you still give up Mutagen (but can get it back with a Discovery, so that's fair), but I don't think the Familiar actually levels up at all. You get some points to invest in some various special abilities for it, but I don't see where it says it levels up like an Animal Companion or an Eidolon does.


If you're still looking in some mechanics to acquire a familiar, you can check up this thread :

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2t104?Feat-paths-to-get-a-familiar-wich-is-bett er

It's more about the feats route to get there than about character builds, but it can unlock a few options for you. You might want to check it out.


Laiho Vanallo wrote:

Could be fun to have a easy to go flanking partner if you play a rogue or ninja. An inquisitor could use this to use "solo tactics". If somehow you get access to "Improved Familiar" there is a nice selection of familiar one might have such as the fairy dragon. A druid could use one and have one hell of a menagerie combined with his natural companion.

Familiar grant awesome bonuses (Compsognathus +4 to initiative anyone?), can carry object around such as your potions and scrolls. Familiar can also carry message, scout and sometime use spell like abilities.There is also a definitive "cool" factor to having a familiar.

Fastest way I know is either one level dip in a class that give a familiar, I must say that I do not advise to do this. The best way in my opinion is this:
You can arrange yourself to have 13 in Charisma, take skill focus (any knowledge you want) and then get the feat Eldritch Heritage at level 3, select the arcane bloodline bond and take a familiar.

Familiar Folio made it so you can take lots of different bloodlines and gain a Familiar from them. Usually with a boost as well.

I like the path of taking a few levels in Carnivalist before ditching the class. Besides the Mauler archetype Martials get a lot less out of gaining levels in their Familiar class. And you can just take Boon Companion Improved Familiar instead, so why not? Another option is just to take levels in an Alchemist with both a Homunculus and Sneak Attack.

Or, hey, Eldritch Heritage can be used to buff your effective level with Carnivalist. It's one more feat than Boon Companion, but you can pick out whatever you like.

Grand Lodge

If you're not really planning on being a spellcaster, a Bloodrager dip for a bloodline familiar is probably your best option. Full BAB, extra movement (or free Improved Trip from Blood Conduit) plus a couple of rounds of Rage and a neat familiar ability.

The Celestial bloodline power has been pretty fun. With 18 Cha, it's 28 free healing a day, and useful for stabilizing and stopping bleeds.


That is helpful, and mentions some other ways to get a familiar not mentioned so far. It's a nice supplement to the thread.

I didn't see any more efficient way of getting a familiar than already discussed except for maybe the Wasp Familiar feat, if you're ok with being locked into a Greensting Scorpion and eventually, if you want, an Imp. I'm tempted to go that route, though I don't know how I feel about the familiar being flavored as a wasp.

I'm interested in the trait mentioned that counts as Iron Will. anyone know what trait that is? Supposedly from Distant Shores.


Yeah, Boon Companion is another nice mention, especially combined with some of the ways of getting a familiar at reduced effective level. Combined with Skill Focus and Eldritch Heritage, it's just as many feats as the Iron Will -> Familiar Bond -> Improved Familiar Bond route. Still requires a Cha score though, so maybe not attractive to all builds. Humans can take the Focused Study trait to get the Skill Focus required for Eldritch Heritage. Boon Companion catches it up the 2 levels it is behind without having to invest further in the Eldritch Heritage chain. And Focused Study means 2 more free Skill Focus feats as you level up.

Boon Companion can also be combined with the Rogue Familiar talent for a full-level familiar, only costing the one feat, though that would be half way through the characters career. Some of the spells gained from the Magic talents could be useful as well; and Unchained Rogues get extra uses of them.

For purposes of the character that I'm considering, though, the Eldritch Heritage route isn't looking attractive still. The Skill Focus feat can be a little more varied, true, but most of the other options are for some specific Knowledge, which is more restrictive than if you had just gone Arcane like normal. Granted, now when you choose Arcane, you still get to pick any Knowledge and your spells are better when cast on your familiar. Though this thread is more about familiars for non-spellcasters (or at least primarily non-spellcaster). The exceptions are Heal (Celestial), Perception (Dragon), and Diplomacy (Infernal). If I'm planning to get an Imp, then Infernal would seem to be the most fitting, and Diplomacy isn't a terrible skill for a thief-type to be good at.


RaizielDragon wrote:
Carnivalist looks ok. Saves me some feats, but at the cost of SA damage and talents. And the only feature I really like is the getting a familiar at first level. The rest I'm not so interested in, and are even a waste once I get Improved Familiar, since it's no longer an animal.

Actually, familiars are intelligent magical beasts, so you can't normally use Handle Animal on them anyway. An improved familiar should work just as well as a regular familiar.

Quote:
For the Homunculist, you still give up Mutagen (but can get it back with a Discovery, so that's fair), but I don't think the Familiar actually levels up at all. You get some points to invest in some various special abilities for it, but I don't see where it says it levels up like an Animal Companion or an Eidolon does.

There is also an unofficial errata that the Homunculist familiar can only Improve to a Homunculus.

Scarab Sages

RaizielDragon wrote:


I'm interested in the trait mentioned that counts as Iron Will. anyone know what trait that is? Supposedly from Distant Shores.

That would be House of Green Mothers Pupil.

Quote:

House of Green Mothers Pupil (Magic): You studied

at Anuli’s center for druidic magic long enough to begin
bonding with a familiar. You gain a +1 trait bonus on
Handle Animal checks. You may substitute this trait for
Iron Will as the prerequisite for the Familiar Bond feat
(Pathfinder Player Companion: Familiar Folio)


That's cool. Saves you a feat (though admittedly one of the most useful prereq feats required for getting a familiar).

Also means that a Human can take this trait, Familiar Bond and Improved Familiar Bond, all at level 1, and have a fully functioning familiar from creation, no matter what class.

Grand Lodge

I don't know if you'd count my bloodrager 1 / beastmorph vivisectionist alchemist X a non-spellcaster, but I'm basically using a valet familiar to feed me potions, clean my cllothes and armor, and to share the escape route feat with me so that I can position better for my sneak attacks.

I got the familiar from one level of draconic bloodrager, and as my second discovery I'll take tumor familiar so that it can be full level...

Jekyll is a winged monkey. Just so that I could tell people, "Don't make me release the flying monkey."

I thought about going protector archetype with him, and then realized that while a HP battery is useful, I'd much rather have an Igor to my mad scientist!


Imbicatus wrote:
Melkiador wrote:
Anyone know if Eldritch Heritage can qualify you for Aberrant Tumor?
Yes. It gives you the bloodline, with an effective sorcerer level of CL -2. The only requirement of the feat is Aberrant Bloodline. It works.

Does it give you the Bloodline? I thought it only gave you the Bloodline power with a sorcerer level of CL-2. I'll have to give that feat line another look.


Gisher wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
Melkiador wrote:
Anyone know if Eldritch Heritage can qualify you for Aberrant Tumor?
Yes. It gives you the bloodline, with an effective sorcerer level of CL -2. The only requirement of the feat is Aberrant Bloodline. It works.
Does it give you the Bloodline? I thought it only gave you the Bloodline power with a sorcerer level of CL-2. I'll have to give that feat line another look.

It's unclear in the feat, but the wording of all the rules that mention it consider it to be the bloodline.

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