Unchained VMC Wizard - Discovery @ 15 : not much choices ?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

talking about the Variant Multi Class rule from unchained book.

the wizard one has the following secondary class feature @ level 15:
Discovery: At 15th level, he gains an arcane discovery or wizard bonus feat treating his character level as his effective wizard level.

so far you don't have a caster level at all
(@ level 11, you can an SLA cantrip, but SLAs don't qualify for caster level either)

so free feat, but...
* you will not take a metamagic feat (you have no spells)
* you can't take an item creation feat (you have no caster level)
* you can take SOME of the arcane discovery (that don't talk about spellcasting or item creation) - that leaves only 4 or 5 as valid choices.

IF you would get a caster level (even only regarding the feat) that would open the item creation feats

oversight in the language or VMC wizard is only useful for other spellcasters ?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Have a look at Secret Wizard's Amateur Night - A Guide to Variant Multiclassing, there are a lot of builds and combinations not needing to be spellcasters.


You're not a real wizard. Pick up some parlor tricks and go on?


Take "True Name", boss around a Planetar. I'd pay four feats for that alone.


Time Stutter would also be amazing.


For maneuver-focused martials, I like Knowledge is Power. The bonus might be small, but it applies to every maneuver and comes at a time when I'm told maneuvers need every bonus they can get.


Casual Viking wrote:
Take "True Name", boss around a Planetar. I'd pay four feats for that alone.

+1

True Name is the only one really worth taking for most builds, which is too bad. Still, if you can VMC Wizard with a Fighter and get flight at will and a Planetar buddy, you're doing pretty good.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

thanks for all your answers.

but they all confirm that you're restricted to a niche choice of 4-5 feats out of 20+ feats you can pick from.

T.A.U. I read the guide, and the only example for non caster (using discoveries) is a manoeuvre-oriented with Knowledge is power

Azten : ?

true name : yes, great !
knowledge is power : situational and small bonus, but could help
time stutter : use you std action go gain 1R, usefull for anyone, true, but it's "only" 1R.

My last sentence was incorrect/misleading.
VMC wizard is usefull in lots of situation.
the lvl 15 bonus feat is NOT unless the 3 above or you're a spellcaster.

my main question would be : shouldn't this lvl 15 bonus allow to take at least magic item creation (something similar to master crafter)


1 person marked this as a favorite.

If you're a witch, a druid, or a Speaker for the Past shaman, pick Idealize to give yourself an extra +2 intelligence and wisdom when casting Threefold Aspect. Extra +4 at level 20.


Vrischika111 wrote:


T.A.U. I read the guide, and the only example for non caster (using discoveries) is a manoeuvre-oriented with Knowledge is power

Yes, the Bounty Hunter archetype Slayers OR Lore Warden archetype Fighters + VMC with Foresight School build suggests the Knowledge is power as discovery.

There is also the Slayer using the Time Sutter discovery could be deadly... "only one" round is enough in this case against a studied target with the Assassinate advanced talent.

OT: Although it isn't related with any discovey, the Scout Rogue with VMC Shapechange School is also viable option.


Beyond Morality can be handy
Steward of the Great Beyond or Temporal Steward might be a good choice if you want to mess with enemy casters


1 person marked this as a favorite.

A caster that vmc wizard still can use most of the discovies. Not every option has to be equally great for each build. It is like complaining that vmc fighter is not as useful for a wizard since it does not get rid of asf.


Sorry for the slight necro here, but would you actually qualify for True Name when it has a prerequisite of "You must be at least an 11th-level Wizard to select this discovery" and you're not actually a Wizard? The VMC ability says:
"Discovery: At 15th level, he gains an arcane discovery or wizard bonus feat, treating his character level as his effective wizard level."

I guess maybe the "effective" Wizard level counts for the purposes of the prerequisite though it is a little confusing since I've heard in other discussions that since you're not actually a member of the VMC class you don't qualify to use magic items which work only for a member of that class, take feats restricted to that class, etc.

Now that I read it more carefully I think I see the difference here, but I'd appreciate some feedback anyhow since I'm not really sure. Most of the Arcane Discoveries have Wizard level prerequisites, so the VMC qualifying you for them would make a pretty big difference.


Yes, you have it Devilkiller. When an ability says to use X as the effective Y for Z, it pretty much always means for all purposes of Z (unless otherwise specified).

I'm back and forth on whether "wizard levels" are enough for the caster level prereqs of item creation feats, and whether you could use the feats afterwards without a caster level. I think... no. Even if you can take the feat, you would no longer have the prerequisite, and thus could not use the feat. Even if you could, you may have to add +5 to the DC a lot to bypass caster level prereqs for things like weapon enhancement bonuses.


Honestly I'm of the opinion that since it's variant multi-classing you are a member of the class just like you would be if you normally multi-classed into it.

Granted it's still rough, but it just makes sense to me.


I think I can, I think I can...I've also come up with what I think might be an amusing extra-planar ally, one who would really clash with our party and have kind of a salty attitude. I might skip it simply because the party is already chock full of cohorts, companions, and familiars to the point where adding a trumpet archon who plays the Blues might be excessive as well as silly.

@Majuba - I'm not sure if the Wizard levels should qualify you for item creation feats, but I've always wondered if your effective class level for a familiar obtained by a feat or VMC shouldn't allow you to meet the level requirements for Improved Familiar.

@Abraham Spalding - In some other threads the majority folks seemed to hold the opinion that taking the VMC doesn't actually make you a member of the class and therefore wouldn't qualify you to use class specific magic items like the Cackling Hag's Blouse, which says, "If the wearer is a witch, she gains the cackle hex." I don't really have a firm opinion on it.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / General Discussion / Unchained VMC Wizard - Discovery @ 15 : not much choices ? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.