Forsaken Cloister - question

[Sliska Zafir]

It reads: "When you move or are moved here, bury a card."

Does that mean when you move away you have to bury a card; or does it mean when you move here (to Forsaken Cloister) you have to bury a card?

In other words, is it:

"When you [move or are moved] here"

OR

"When you move; or are moved here"

?

[elcoderdude]

I played it that you have to bury a card when you arrive at the location, whether you moved yourself or were moved. (For this reason we always start the game with someone at this location.)

[skizzerz]

I play it the same as elcoderdude, so in your phrasing, "When you [move or are moved] here"

[Eliandra Giltessan]

Huh. We have always played it the opposite, so you bury a card if you move to or from there.

[Mike Selinker]

Huh. We have never considered that "move or are moved" could mean anything but "move or are moved to this location." You guys really see an implied "from" in there?

[Eliandra Giltessan]

Well, if you read it parsed the second way in the OP, it's "if you move." And that would be moving away. I actually had to think about it for a minute to see it the other way. I did not assume that the distinction meant "if you choose to move here or are moved here." But I see now why that might make more sense.

[Irgy]

I think the reading which leads to the other interpretation could be best described as "Here, whenever you move, bury a card". I didn't read it that way myself but I can see how it could happen.

There's not an implied "from", more of an implied "while" if anything. Either way an explicit "to" would fix it on future releases

[Sliska Zafir]

Well the only reason I mention it, is because on other cards, it says, "When you move, do X" - it doesn't say "When you move *from this location*, do X" - see the location "Sanctum", for example. All it says there is, "When you move, bury a card."

By the way, not complaining - I love this game, and it has brought my son and I closer, so we're big fans. Thanks for creating it, Mike et al.

[Sliska Zafir]

Eliandra Giltessan wrote:

Well, if you read it parsed the second way in the OP, it's "if you move." And that would be moving away. I actually had to think about it for a minute to see it the other way. I did not assume that the distinction meant "if you choose to move here or are moved here." But I see now why that might make more sense.

Well, sometimes you move to a location without choosing, say when a card forces you to move to a random location. So the wording has to be pretty precise then.

BTW, just about to finish Adventure 6, part 6, and take on Deskari.

[Frencois]

Hehe nice "mathematical" one on the order of the operand "OR" vs "HERE". I. e., should the computer that creates random cards (that we all know Mike is using) will interpret :
When ((you move) OR (are moved)) HERE...
OR
When (you move [default=FROM]) OR ((are moved) HERE)...

The only way to know for sure is to ask the only Artificial Intelligence even greater than the Mighty-Not-This-Mike-GodYTron...
Hawk?

:-)

[magnitt]

We also had some difficulty with this one. We argued I think for about 10 minutes before we all agreed that it should mean "when you [move or are moved] here", meaning this effects happens only when you arrive at this location, not when you depart.

[Brother Tyler]

My group faced a similar situation the first time we read the card, but quickly came to the same interpretation (and strategy) as elcoderdude.

It would have been easier if the text of the card had simply read:

"When you move or are moved to this location, bury a card."

Saying "here" instead of "to this location" works well enough when you understand the intent (and/or grammatical/argumentative logic ;) ), but as the experiences described in this discussion have shown, the lack of clarity might be problematic.

[Eliandra Giltessan]

My correction would actually be "If you move here or are moved here, bury a card."

[Zenarius]

From those of us with lousier English we finally settled on the long form : when you move to this location or are moved to this location...

[david peterson 990]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, I was just starting a new solo campaign and figured I'd ask about this: If I START here, does that count as a MOVE here? Would my first thing to do this game be burying a card?

Thanks!

[Hawkmoon269]

Starting the scenario at a location does not count as moving to that location.

WotR Rulebook p7 wrote:

Place Token Cards. Each player chooses a location and puts her character’s token card near it. Multiple characters can choose the same starting location.

Note that it isn't called "moving".

WotR Rulebook p8 wrote:

Move: You may move your token card to another location. Moving then triggers any effects that happen when you enter or leave a location. When you choose to move, you must always select a new location, although it is possible for some effects to move you to the same location you came from. If you do not change locations, your character is not considered to have entered or left a location.

Moving is described as entering and leaving a location and something that, typically, changes your location.

Plus, this.

So, if you start the scenario there, you don't have to bury any cards.

[Eliandra Giltessan]

Strategy-wise, when I play we try to start someone at those locations to avoid the burial.

[david peterson 990]

Great, that's what I'd figured but was just wanting to be sure. I'm really new to the PACG series and am still trying to figure out some of the mechanics and still have a lot of doubt about whether I'm doing things correctly. Thanks for the tips!

[Ron Lundeen]

Eliandra Giltessan wrote:

Strategy-wise, when I play we try to start someone at those locations to avoid the burial.

..and in fact, we start only ONE person there--I recall that's because everyone there has to fight the servitor demon to close it, but I don't have the card in front of me.