Doctor Who - Series 9


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Rynjin wrote:
Mark Norfolk wrote:
Face the Raven definitely the low point of the series.
Wat

.... it was dull wasn't it. Plus Clara's death was 'flat' without all the normal 'companion is leaving' emotional content, so we knew it wasn't for keeps. People were being irritatingly cryptic 'just because'. Me's plan hinged on Rigsy calling Clara and on other alien refugees not figuring it out and the Doctor not figuring it out and....

...well, I just didn't like it.

Cheers


I thought her death was great. She finally reached the natural consequence of her reckless behavior, and when she realized her magic man couldn't bail her out from her own stupidity this time, she accepted her death with dignity, and went out like a grown woman. There was actual character development in her last moments, for both her and the Doctor.

Then Moffat f~~$ed it up by giving her yet another get out of jail free card, immortality, and a TARDIS, and returning the stupid "The Doctor is obsessed with Clara and can't let go" attitude when the whole point of Face the Raven was he LET HER GO.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Did he, Rynjin? I mean, yes, The Doctor let Clara walk out the door and face her death, but the point of Hell Bent is that while he let her walk out, he couldn't let her go. He was too attached to the Impossible Girl, so much so that the only real solution was for her to remove herself from his memory to keep him from breaking EVERYTHING THAT EVER WAS AND EVER WILL BE to bring her back to life.

And, actually, now that I see where Clara's story has gone, I get what the point of her actions this season were. Danny Pink died last season, and Clara has moved on, and is living her life to the fullest. Clara died this season, and The Doctor spent 4.5 billion years obsessing over her, repeating the same actions day after day after interminable day, just to get out and save her. The only way for The Doctor to let her go is if he couldn't remember her any longer.

I still think we needed to see a bit of Clara going through the stages of grief, since it looked like she jumped feet first into acceptance, but whatever.


Misroi wrote:

Did he, Rynjin? I mean, yes, The Doctor let Clara walk out the door and face her death, but the point of Hell Bent is that while he let her walk out, he couldn't let her go. He was too attached to the Impossible Girl, so much so that the only real solution was for her to remove herself from his memory to keep him from breaking EVERYTHING THAT EVER WAS AND EVER WILL BE to bring her back to life.

Which is what I mean by "Moffat f!&&ed it up".

Hell Bent overwrote Face the Raven.

Poorly.


Misroi wrote:
the only real solution was for her to remove herself from his memory to keep him from breaking EVERYTHING THAT EVER WAS AND EVER WILL BE to bring her back to life

She seemed to be fine in the last scene, so I don't see why he'd have needed to.


Gotta admit though the combo of a woman literally on the last beat of her heart and an immortal who has lived to see the end of the universe is an interesting set up.

I wonder, Is Clara similar to Jack now? Can she not die until she returns to the moment of her death.

Paizo Employee Developer

I, too, was really put off by the Doctor wielding and using a gun. I know he's come very close before, but I didn't like it then, either. It's like Batman using a gun—it's a circle I just can't square.

As for the series as a whole, I thin it is perhaps the best one since Moffat took over. There have been high (and low) points here and there throughout the NuWho run, but this was the best overall series afaic.

I'm really sick of every companion needing a big dramatic send-off or permanent separation from the Doctor. Remember when they just sort of decided not to get back on the TARDIS? The best companions didn't die—they just got back to their lives. That said, I know that's likely an element of the revived run that won't go away. I'd just rather it did.

I'm looking forward to River coming back, and excited to see what direction they go for the next companion. If it's a man, I think that will cement the Doctor's next regeneration into a gender-swap. The fact that both Missy and the Time Lord president both regenerated from men into woman in the last few seasons makes it pretty clear that Moffat is getting the audience used to the idea.


Mark Moreland wrote:
I, too, was really put off by the Doctor wielding and using a gun. I know he's come very close before, but I didn't like it then, either.

Classic Doctors shooting a bunch of things, including a Time Lord, and straight snapping some guy's neck (NSFW soundtrack)

And never forget the time the Doctor's companion took a baseball bat to a Dalek and made explosives for fun

Community Manager

While I appreciate getting upset about how a story turned out, let's dial back on the profanity (censored or not).


Considering he shot a Time Lord, who was just going to get back up eventually, it was really a non-event.


Shadowborn wrote:
Considering he shot a Time Lord, who was just going to get back up eventually, it was really a non-event.

After all the whining he does when he regenerates, it makes him an enormous hypocrite at the very least. He knows full well you're a different person when you regenerate.


That I agree with. Eleven was hardly casual about the end of his time (sticking to the Moffat era). Melancholy, nostalgic, discarding his bow tie knowing he wouldn't find them cool any more. The off-hand way he disposed of the male incarnation of the Time Lord General was quite at odds with the way we've seen regeneration.

Cheers


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It showed he was willing to violate his normal rules to get Clara back. (Even though she specifically asked him not to.) Which I suppose adds weight to the idea that he might now be a threat to the entire universe.


Rynjin wrote:
Shadowborn wrote:
Considering he shot a Time Lord, who was just going to get back up eventually, it was really a non-event.
After all the whining he does when he regenerates, it makes him an enormous hypocrite at the very least. He knows full well you're a different person when you regenerate.

The general didn't seem all that different when she was done. Likewise, River Song seems to enjoy her regenerations, and treats them a lot like shopping for a new wardrobe. It's only the Doctor that seems to have any real trouble with them.


...She didn't?

She had one line afterwards (that I can recall) and it was "I can't believe my ego was that big" or some such.


She had a few lines, mostly giving orders to her soldiers, none of which really changed the actual demeanor of her character beyond that anecdote.


Well, yes, because that's her job. That doesn't really speak to personality.

Silver Crusade

I still rather dislike Me as a character, she just never rubbed me the right way, even from the start. And we're just supposed to accept that she managed to live from the last time we saw her in, what, about 2015 until the actual end of the universe with nothing bad happening to her? She's immortal, but you'd think just the laws of probability would have her dying in some way or another, it's not exactly a safe universe. Mostly this season I don't get why we had to drag our feet so long to get to Gallifrey, either. At least the Doctor's confession dial was pretty cool.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Breaking news:
Moffat is leaving Who


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Best news I've heard in a while. There may be hope for DW yet.


Daniel Yeatman wrote:
I still rather dislike Me as a character, she just never rubbed me the right way, even from the start. And we're just supposed to accept that she managed to live from the last time we saw her in, what, about 2015 until the actual end of the universe with nothing bad happening to her? She's immortal, but you'd think just the laws of probability would have her dying in some way or another, it's not exactly a safe universe. Mostly this season I don't get why we had to drag our feet so long to get to Gallifrey, either. At least the Doctor's confession dial was pretty cool.

I agree to a point. She was a GREAT villain...and really...that's what she was.

It's odd that suddenly she's accepted as a NOT-villain, when the two episodes prior to that in the season she was a villain every time.

She got rewarded for it as well...

What should have happened to save Clara is that the curse got conferred to Ashielda and she suffered continuous death the entire time until the energy ran out (Sort of like what happened to the guy who was going to hang and then had the portal opened by his life force).

Instead, we have some sort of craziness that really doesn't make sense (Doctor goes for 4.5 billion years just to save Clara?), The villain gets away with it and suffers NO consequences of their decisions, the Doctor murders and kills his fellow time lords, and worst of all, the easiest thing to save Clara (since she WAS the impossible girl) is simply nab one of her doubles that had already helped a previous doctor and put that Clara in the other Clara's place...

I really did NOT like the end of the season....

Of course I didn't really like Clara either...she was FAR more Mary Sue than any other Character on DW EVER! Not only that, but the producer loved her so much it was more the Clara and companion show rather than Doctor Who...annoying.

Sovereign Court

Any rumors on who is taking over as showrunner???


Rynjin wrote:
Shadowborn wrote:
Considering he shot a Time Lord, who was just going to get back up eventually, it was really a non-event.
After all the whining he does when he regenerates, it makes him an enormous hypocrite at the very least. He knows full well you're a different person when you regenerate.

That's actually more of the issue that the Doctor himself simply doesn't regenerate well or stably.

Remmember the first words of the Castellan after she regenerated?

"Ahh... back to normal", which kind of implies that her male form was an aberration.


Mark Moreland wrote:

I, too, was really put off by the Doctor wielding and using a gun. I know he's come very close before, but I didn't like it then, either. It's like Batman using a gun—it's a circle I just can't square.

He's not only come close he's actually killed with guns in the past, most famously, the 4th Doctor eliminated a Sontaran Commander with the Demat Gun, removing his entire army in the process.

The 5th Doctor killed Kamelion with the Master's Tissue Compression Eliminator, not technically a gun, but one of the most painful ways to die.

Various other Doctors have killed sentient beings as well, using things other than guns, perhaps, but lethal all the same. And before his timeline was altered, the War Doctor's body count was in the BILLIONS, when he destroyed both sides using the Moment.

So it's not exactly he doesn't have blood on his hands before this.


Pan wrote:
Any rumors on who is taking over as showrunner???

No rumours. It's been announced. Chris Chibnall is taking over starting with series 11 (series 10 is still Moffat).

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