Most of the time I build either archers or casters. I get to focus on 1 stat and don't have to worry about being next to the enemy or about them being next to me. (usually.)
But every time I see someone play the level 7 Bloodrager pregen I feel a bit of envy at that nearly +20 to hit and around 20 damage. Sure my archer would have done more overall damage at 7th level, my caster would have effectively ended the fight other then that pesky 'deal enough damage to kill the enemy' bit.
So I would like to play my first melee focused character and am looking for suggestions. Here are my priorities.
1. The SADder the better. (Single Attribute Design)
2. I'd like something to do with my swift action to increase my combat ability. (Extra attack from Ki, Bane from Inquisitor, Fervor from Warpriest, etc...)
3. Having a way to reach the enemy and full attack would be nice but I am aware that it is actually not easy to do.
4. I don't want a build that revolves around 1 or 2 expensive items.
5. I don't mind complicated builds but I don't like having to choose between 10 different options during actual play.
I'm looking for suggestions.
DEX-based Swashbuckler with a Rapier. Some CON is needed, as always with someone who goes into melee. Some CHA is nice, but not really that important.
DEX-based Unchained Rogue, even more SAD.
Most Dex-Based builds would be your go-to. Swashbucklers are a prime example of a very basic SAD build, given Fencing/Slashing Grace feats, and free Weapon Finesse, you should be able to start it off by 1st level if you went Human for the Bonus Feat, or 3rd level if you were any other race.
An Unchained Rogue+Slayer build does put you 1 BAB behind the rest, but you get bonus feats, an adequate Sneak Attack scale, etc. It also ables you to unlock your Dex to Damage by 3rd level, the same as every other Dex-based build. Not to mention the Studied Target benefits can help shore up your little bit of falling behind. Tack on Skill Monkey benefits, Free Evasion, Ranger Bonus Feats, and other goodies, and you're rocking a very solid melee character.
One suggestion is the CAGM Invulnerable Rager from AM BARBARIAN's guide; you won't really need Dexterity that much, as your AC will be garbage anyway, and your DR can handle the brunt of any mook attacks (though it can falter in the eyes of the BBEG). It does get Pounce by level 10, which is one of the few ways a melee can get a Full Attack in a single round of engaging in combat. Getting a Mount and a Lance would really make the build shine, and is something he touches on in his guide.
Mobile Fighter gets the ability to pseudo-Full Attack by level 11, and gets the ability to Full Attack as a Standard Action as their Capstone; a pseudo-Pounce, if you will. But unfortunately, it will require a bit of other investments to make it shine (but it's still fun).
It really depends on what your group composition is to finalize a choice. If you need a constant melee fighter, the Swashbuckler is a solid choice. He also gets Deeds that can make him more effective in combat.
If you want a more skill-monkey based character, the UC Rogue/Slayer combo fills that niche perfectly.
If you want a Strength-based power house with crazy mobility, damage reduction, etc., go with the RAGELANCEPOUNCE of AM BARBARIAN.
Beast totem barbarian is pretty SAD and can eventually get pounce.
On a whole Two handed or natural attack based melee builds are pretty sad. You need high STR, decent CON and WIS and the rest isn't all that important. A decent amount of Skill points or a good wil save further help in staying SAD.
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Sensei Monk debuffer.
Single-ability dependency is hard, because you will pretty much always need Constitution.
If what you want is "two high scores, everything else is suck," barbarian can do this well.
Pretty much all standard barbarian builds only need Strength and Constitution.
Having non-negative wisdom and dexterity isn't bad, but honestly, you can probably deal with even negative modifiers.
I'd play a barbarian with this statline, if I had to:
str16, dex8, con14, int7, wis8, cha7, before racials. That's a 3 point buy. Add dwarf bonuses, invulnerable rager archetype, and all the dwarven & barbarian anti-magic stuff.
a pretty decent will save, and with Beast Totem, your mid-level AC will be comparable to an equal-level fighter with better dexterity, even while raging.
Alternatively, Unchained Rogue 1/Urban Barbarian 1 with an elven curve blade can rely on dex for to hit & damage, increases Dex when raging, and has access to all the standard barbarian stuff, just a level delayed.
Keep in mind that, if you go this route, you'll either need a 13 in strength for Power Attack, or at least two levels in slayer or ranger for Two-handed Combat Style.
All this Rogue/Swashbuckler things are pretty misguided. Both classes need decent CON/WIS to patch up their horrible saves.
What about a kineticist?
High CON and just a dip of DEX and your pretty set. Touch attacks and the elemental annihilator and you have a pretty good melee character.
Synthesist Summoner is effectively SAD. Your Eidolon provides the physical stats and your Charisma does the rest. Most accusations of cheese can be avoided if you stick to using a two-handed weapon rather than loading up on as many natural attack evolutions as you can.
Noble Scion replaces DEX with CHA for Initiative.
One level dip in Oracle replaces DEX with CHA for AC, and either Reflex (Lore or Lunar mystery) or CMD (Nature mystery).
Steadfast Personality replaces WIS with CHA for Will Saves, albeit only against Mind Affecting effects. The Irrepressible trait is cheaper but even narrower, only applying to Charm and Compulsion effects.
Okay I'm going to suggest something completely different: the warpreist.
Upfront warning this build doesn't come online untill level 4 if retraining is allowed/viable, if not then not until level 6.
This is not the most exceptional damage output build but it is very strong imo.
Stats: str 13/14 dex 12 con 14/16 int ? wis high cha dump.
strength 13 is really just fine but no lower as you want power attack
intelligence optomisation wise this is a dump stat, but do you really want to play a stupid character with 1 skill per level?
charisma well unless you want your character to be charismatic this is unnecessary 10 at most.
wisdom once you get all you other stats to their mediocre/sub par places put everything that you can into wisdom.
Now assuming you can't retain this is what you do:
1.Pick a deity who has a favored weapon that you find appealing, gorum is nice if you want a beatstick, saranre or cayden caylean (however these are spelled) are good for crits. Honestly thiugh having a low damage die is better as you make better use of your sacred weapon ability, it's kind of wasted on a greatsword.
2. Lets say you picked cayden, now pick the rapier as your sacred weapon with your free weapon focus.
3.pick your blessings. Good or chaos is very important to have for later, and luck is a good one to have right now, travel is also good.
4. at level five pick up a feat you should absolutely never use but you need anyways: channel smite.
5. at level 6 with your bonus feat pick up guided hand! now all of your attack rolls are made with wisdom instead of strength while using the rapier.
6. Get quicken blessing on luck or travel, or if you like good or chaos. Then you can summon allies as a swift action. It's worth it to take the feat twice.
What race? Human or dwarf. Human gets lots of extra combat feats from the fcb, dwarfs get great saves and great stats. Also you will be moving at 20 feet no mater what as you will be using heavy armor.
Synthesist Summoner is effectively SAD. Your Eidolon provides the physical stats and your Charisma does the rest. Most accusations of cheese can be avoided if you stick to using a two-handed weapon rather than loading up on as many natural attack evolutions as you can.
Noble Scion replaces DEX with CHA for Initiative.
One level dip in Oracle replaces DEX with CHA for AC, and either Reflex (Lore or Lunar mystery) or CMD (Nature mystery).
Steadfast Personality replaces WIS with CHA for Will Saves, albeit only against Mind Affecting effects. The Irrepressible trait is cheaper but even narrower, only applying to Charm and Compulsion effects.
I should have specified, This is for PFS.
All this Rogue/Swashbuckler things are pretty misguided. Both classes need decent CON/WIS to patch up their horrible saves.I can't think of a single SAD class that wouldn't have a poor save.
Unchained Rogue with poison and a lot of stealth would be ideal for SAD. Hit first and move on. You don't need saves if they can't see you.
Sensei Monk debuffer.
Fencing Inquisitor.
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The easiest SAD melee build is likely a high Str Barbarian. Str gives you attack and damage bonuses, armor helps with AC, and d12 hit dice helps offset relatively low Con.
For Dex based I'd suggest a two-weapon fighting Whirling Dervish (Swashbuckler archetype) or UnRogue. Both let you get attack and damage from Dex for weapons in both hands. Combine that with sneak attack and debuffs from an UnRogue and you can eventually be getting seven melee attacks (un-hasted) per round with a better chance to hit and more damage than most strength based full BAB melee types. Swashbuckler/Dervish isn't as deadly in situations where a Rogue could get sneak attack, but is slightly better in situations where they can't.
Debuffer wasn't the request, and both are wisdom based. Inquisitor is not SAD.
He asked for melee.
Urban Barbarian using Dervish Dance. Or a Gunslinger...
It's as SAD as martials get.
Any Dex-based build with no need for Int or Cha, really...
Paladins can even get out with their need for Cha because they can dump Wis. Rangers also work, since they can easily start with Wis 10~12 and then only increase it via headband (which you like to do anyway, since martials often have poor Will save progression).
A melee oriented Dervish Dance Bard is very SAD. 12 Charisma is actually Viable and otherwise all you need is DEX.
However this will not make you an awesome melee combatant, more a utility character that has decent combat stats.
The unchained barbarian can also go dex based.
I love a good save as much as the next guy, but past a certain level most characters will fail them more often than not. Just carry some protection from evil.
All this Rogue/Swashbuckler things are pretty misguided. Both classes need decent CON/WIS to patch up their horrible saves.
Synthesist summoner is the only melee class in the entire game who does not need Con.
Pretending that your Sensei wouldn't need Con is kind of disingenious, too. He will. Also, his AC will suck without a decent Dex, hence increasing the need for Con.
Besides, Dwarven Urogue/Urban Barbarian has great saves.
PFS legal level 1 build:
Sadface
Female CN Dwarf
Unchained Rogue 1
Init +6, Perception +3, Darkvision 60ft.
HP 11 (1d8+3, favored class is barbarian)
AC 17, FF 13, T 14, CMD 15
Fort +3, Ref +6, Will -1 (+3 on saves vs spells)
-----------------
Speed 20ft.
Elven Curve Blade +4, 1d10+6 (18-20/*2)
(Chakram ranged +4, 1d8+1, 30ft range increment)
-----------------
Stats: Str 13, Dex 18, Con 17, Int 7, Wis 9, Cha 5
Feats: 1 - EWP(Elven Curve Blade or Spiked Chain)
Traits: Glory of Old, Reactionary
Noteworthy Special Abilities: Sneak Attack +1d6, Finesse Training(Elven Curve Blade), Hardy
Gear: Elven Curve Blade, Studded Leather Armor, 45 unspent GP. Maybe buy some Chakram for throwing around?
The big con mod is just gravy; it would work just fine with a 10 point buy and 14 constitution. You could also use the 5 points freed up in that process to up your will save, or to become less stupid in general. You asked for something SAD though, so here is a version that dumps everything it can.
Sadface, level 3 version.
Female CN Dwarf
Unchained Rogue 1/Invulnerable Urban Barbarian 2
Init +6, Perception +5, Darkvision 60ft.
HP 32
AC 20, FF 14, T 16, CMD 19
Fort +7, Ref +9, Will +0 (+5 on saves vs spells)
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Speed 20ft.
Elven Curve Blade +8, 1d10+12 (18-20)
-----------------
Stats: Str 13, Dex 22, Con 17, Int 7, Wis 9, Cha 5
Feats: 1 - EWP(Elven Curve Blade or Spiked Chain), 3 - Power Attack
Traits: Glory of Old, Reactionary
Noteworthy Special Abilities: Sneak Attack +1d6, Finesse Training(Elven Curve Blade), Hardy, Superstition, Rage 9rds/d, DR 1/-
Gear: Masterwork Elven Curve Blade, Mithral Chain Shirt, Cloak of Resistance +1. Also, have some oils of magic weapon around for dealing with DR/Magic.
Stats assume Power Attack & Dex-Rage.
SADface, level 7 version
Female CN Dwarf
Unchained Rogue 1/Invulnerable Rager Urban Barbarian 6
Init +6, Perception +9, Darkvision 60ft.
HP 74
AC 23, FF 17, T 15, CMD 23
Fort +9, Ref +12, Will +2 (+8 on saves vs spells)
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Speed 20ft.
Elven Curve Blade +14/+9, 1d10+17 (18-20)
-----------------
Stats: Str 13, Dex 25, Con 17, Int 7, Wis 9, Cha 5
Feats: 1 - EWP(Elven Curve Blade or Spiked Chain), 3 - Power Attack, 5 - Steel Soul, 7 - Extra Rage Power: Reckless Abandon
Traits: Glory of Old, Reactionary
Interesting abilities: Finesse Training, Rage 17rds/d, Reckless Abandon, Superstition, Beast Totem(+2 NA), DR 3/-
Gear: Belt of Dex +2, +1 Elven Curve Blade, +1 Mithral Chain Shirt, Ring of protection +1, Amulet of Natural Armor +1, other stuff.
Once again assuming Rage, Reckless Abandon & Power Attack.
Continues all the way up to Barbarian 11 for pounce & greater rage. 9th level feat should probably be Improved Critical, and the 11th level feat can be whatever you like. A Celestial Chain is a really nice item to have, so you can use your dex to the fullest extent.
Paladin Lay on hands means you don't need as much con. Full-plate means you don't need dex. good with with divine grace means you don't need much wis. with 2 skills you can go human int 7 and still have 2 skills. smite helps with attack and damage against evil guys.
So you just need high str with decent cha or high cha with decent str.
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Sensei Monk debuffer.
This is actually something I can get behind. It won't be "SAD" in the sense that any and all martial need their stats to be slightly positive or eventually suffer great consequences, but this character is really capable of good buffing, damage and utility.
In a 20 point but you're looing at 14/14/12/9/17/7. Not really that different than an archer (I say thi because a zen archer has the exact same optimal point buy). Be a Human, +2 goes into Wisdom, and select your feats in accordance to weather you wanna damage or debuff.
Level 1 feats would be Lingering Performance and whatever else you want really. Maybe Toughness or a Skill focus. You have skilled so that's still 4 skill points per level. You can change things around for more INT if you want smarts to go with your wisdom (14/12/12/12/17/07). The rest of the feats would either be the Tiger Style chain+Power attack for damage (Tiger pounce is amazing since your AC will be amazing) Mantis Style for Stunning Fist and see if Ability Focus for Stunning Fist is allowed.
Usually I find Tiger Style a bit lackluster since it's second feat is terrible for anyone flurrying, but if you have 3/4 BAB, doing what is essentially two attack at your highest BAB with one getting two-handed damage/better power attack damage is a really good deal. It's also good for punching through DR, and given Ki strike, between slashing and bludgeoning, you eventually just ignore any DR that matter s to most melee.
Edit: Just an after thought. You can combine this with Ki Mystic with for even MORE utility and a doubled Ki Pool RAW and somewhat RAI.
Sensei Monk debuffer.This is actually something I can get behind. It won't be "SAD" in the sense that any and all martial need their stats to be slightly positive or eventually suffer great consequences, but this character is really capable of good buffing, damage and utility.
In a 20 point but you're looing at 14/14/12/9/17/7. Not really that different than an archer (I say thi because a zen archer has the exact same optimal point buy). Be a Human, +2 goes into Wisdom, and select your feats in accordance to weather you wanna damage or debuff.
Level 1 feats would be Lingering Performance and whatever else you want really. Maybe Toughness or a Skill focus. You have skilled so that's still 4 skill points per level. You can change things around for more INT if you want smarts to go with your wisdom (14/12/12/12/17/07). The rest of the feats would either be the Tiger Style chain+Power attack for damage (Tiger pounce is amazing since your AC will be amazing) Mantis Style for Stunning Fist and see if Ability Focus for Stunning Fist is allowed.
Usually I find Tiger Style a bit lackluster since it's second feat is terrible for anyone flurrying, but if you have 3/4 BAB, doing what is essentially two attack at your highest BAB with one getting two-handed damage/better power attack damage is a really good deal. It's also good for punching through DR, and given Ki strike, between slashing and bludgeoning, you eventually just ignore any DR that matter s to most melee.
Edit: Just an after thought. You can combine this with Ki Mystic with for even MORE utility and a doubled Ki Pool RAW and somewhat RAI.
He's looking for a PFS build, though - he only has 15 points to work with. Where should he get the 5 extra points, do you think?
Oh. Missed the 15 point bit. Drop wis to 16 and consider going dwarf to drop con further. 14/12/12/10/16/7 pre modifiers. A human still has skilled and can just take toughness for HP. As a dwarf you can drop con for int if you please. It balances out in the end, though dwarves end up with better saves and but less speed.
Lingering performance still works since the sensei straight up gets bardic performance as a bard with fewer options. Is ki mystic not giving all that ki in PFS or no? You still get 2 ki pools. Feats stay the same, tough I personally recommend tiger style for them big numbers you get jelly of.
PFS is 20-point buy for PCs.
He's looking for a PFS build, though - he only has 15 points to work with. Where should he get the 5 extra points, do you think?
Huh. It seems you're right about that. I've always been told it was 15 points, for some reason.
Anyway, what I was getting at is that you're not building a single-ability dependent character at this point - you're looking at investing in Str, Dex, Constitution, while keeping Wisdom as your 'main' stat by putting a 15 into it and raising it with the racial modifier.
I get that you have to have Constitution no matter what you do, no two ways around it, and you might be forced to leave wisdom at at least 12 for the will save, but can we please admit that something that actively uses 4 ability scores is not a good answer to a thread which asks for a 'SAD' build? You should be looking for something that minimizes the need for strength, at the very least. For instance, Weapon Finesse + Pirahna strike makes for a viable substitute for strength and power attack for the monk, if he picks up an agile amulet of mighty fists. This is affordable at 3rd level, which he can start out at by having GM credit or whatever it is they call it in that system. Don't know why I know this is a thing - it's totally useless knowledge to me, as I don't play pfs.
What we're looking for here is a situation where, after putting an 18 into our main score, we're not uncomfortable with only having 3 points left for other stats.
On salvaging the MAD monk:
I suggest going human, skip the 2 first levels by DMing a bit, and then do something like this statline:
Str 7(monks need no weapons or armor, and most magic items are weightless anyway), Dex 18(includes racial bonus), Con 14, Int 10, Wis 17, Cha 7
Feats: 1 - Lingering Performance, H - Weapon Finesse, 3 - Pirahna Strike, + various monk bonus feats
Gear: Agile Amulet of Mighty fists. This represents all of your WBL, but you'll love it anyway.
Traits: That one from Irori where you get to add wis instead of str to swim checks, so you don't drown and die.
Skills: Put some ranks into climb, so you don't fall down and die. In my experience, this happens surprisingly often.
All this Rogue/Swashbuckler things are pretty misguided. Both classes need decent CON/WIS to patch up their horrible saves.Synthesist summoner is the only melee class in the entire game who does not need Con.
Pretending that your Sensei wouldn't need Con is kind of disingenious, too. He will. Also, his AC will suck without a decent Dex, hence increasing the need for Con.
Besides, Dwarven Urogue/Urban Barbarian has great saves.
PFS legal level 1 build:
Sadface
Female CN Dwarf
Unchained Rogue 1
Init +6, Perception +3, Darkvision 60ft.
HP 11 (1d8+3, favored class is barbarian)
AC 17, FF 13, T 14, CMD 15
Fort +3, Ref +6, Will -1 (+3 on saves vs spells)
-----------------
Speed 20ft.
Elven Curve Blade +4, 1d10+6 (18-20/*2)
(Chakram ranged +4, 1d8+1, 30ft range increment)
-----------------
Stats: Str 13, Dex 18, Con 17, Int 7, Wis 9, Cha 5
Feats: 1 - EWP(Elven Curve Blade or Spiked Chain)
Traits: Glory of Old, Reactionary
Noteworthy Special Abilities: Sneak Attack +1d6, Finesse Training(Elven Curve Blade), Hardy
Gear: Elven Curve Blade, Studded Leather Armor, 45 unspent GP. Maybe buy some Chakram for throwing around?The big con mod is just gravy; it would work just fine with a 10 point buy and 14 constitution. You could also use the 5 points freed up in that process to up your will save, or to become less stupid in general. You asked for something SAD though, so here is a version that dumps everything it can.
Sadface, level 3 version.
Female CN Dwarf
Unchained Rogue 1/Invulnerable Urban Barbarian 2
Init +6, Perception +5, Darkvision 60ft.
HP 32
AC 20, FF 14, T 16, CMD 19
Fort +7, Ref +9, Will +0 (+5 on saves vs spells)
-----------------
Speed 20ft.
Elven Curve Blade +8, 1d10+12 (18-20)
-----------------
Stats: Str 13, Dex 22, Con 17, Int 7, Wis 9, Cha 5
Feats: 1 - EWP(Elven Curve Blade or Spiked Chain), 3 - Power Attack
Traits: Glory of Old, Reactionary
Noteworthy Special Abilities: Sneak Attack +1d6, Finesse Training(Elven Curve...
How is it dealing 1d10 +12 at level 3? My understanding of the Unchained Rogue was that they don't add Dex to damage until level 3 of the class. Power Attack would only make it +4 total.
Ouch, you're right about that, misread the rules, sadly.
You'll have to take at least 3 levels of Urogue for it to work. This cuts you out of pounce within the bounds of pfs, which sucks.
Still workable, but a lot less good than I thought it was.
Monk / Shaman (Prehensile Hair Hex) / Inquisitor gets WIS to
Initiative
Stealth
Bluff
Intimidate
AC
Attack
Damage
plz dont make finesse monks it makes me cry
plz dont make finesse monks it makes me cry
Good. I enjoy the taste of your tears.
On the serious side, why are you against finesse monks? It's a viable answer to OP's question - and certainly a better one than making a monk who needs 4 distinct stats and calling it a SAD character.
Anyway, how would you build this 'debuffer sensei' you keep talking about?
Debuffing Sensei:
Human
S10 D12 C13 I12 W18+2 CH7
Traits:
Quain Martial Artist, Honored Fist of the Society
Feats:
1. Weapon Focus (Unarmed), Lingering Performance, Improved Grapple
3. Mantis Style
5. Crushing Blow
7. Mantis Wisdom
9. Mantis Torment
11. Dimensional Agility
13. Touch of Serenity
Sprinkle with Qingqong powers to taste. Use Mystic Wisdom to share tons of powers and boosts. You could theoretically share True Strike with it.
Your main role: teleport right next to the priority target, Stunning Fist his ass to oblivion. DC is going to be pretty damn high.
If Ability Focus is allowed as a feat, don't doubt in taking it.
Crushing Blow is good to enemies that would be immune to stunning and such, and it makes the enemy lose a phat chunk of AC.
Once you get Touch of Serenity, you can lock down high Fort or Fort-immune enemies such as Undead.
And on top of that, you are basically a Bard in terms of performances.
That dex monk... any martial character with a negative strength is just a bad idea in my opinion. More Sad is not worth potentially doing one damage on a min roll for three levels. Not to mention getting agile means one less point for accuracy and damage. I know using dex makes up for it slightly, but your damage is still weaker overall, making the sadness moot.
Sad as a martial IMHO means plus 0-2 on everything except one stat. Barring chr of course. Sad for a martial and sad for a caster cannot be fairly held by equal standards.
Besides, OP wanted actual damage. A tiger style chain+power attack sensei will get that, and with inspire courage. Will never be a drag on the party. Who wants to spend up to 8 potential rounds killing a goblin. You will get ignored.
Also DEX Monks are outclassed by STR Monks when Unchained hit the scene.
Strength-based Barbarian with the longest reach you can get. Trip approaching foes as an AoO. Focus on not letting anyone get close enough to attack you, so you don't have to rely on Dex and Con.
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Also DEX Monks are outclassed by STR Monks when Unchained hit the scene.
Unless they multi-class Unchained Rogue... Unarmed build love the non-amulet dex to damage and debilitating injury, along with using spin kick to enable sneak attacks. Weapon Builds have every light monk weapon to choose from, or the option of dipping a level of crusader cleric as well for 1.5 dex to damage with a spiked chain crusader's flurry.
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Also DEX Monks are outclassed by STR Monks when Unchained hit the scene.Unless they multi-class Unchained Rogue... Unarmed build love the non-amulet dex to damage and debilitating injury, along with using spin kick to enable sneak attacks. Weapon Builds have every light monk weapon to choose from, or the option of dipping a level of crusader cleric as well for 1.5 dex to damage with a spiked chain crusader's flurry.
"Oh, hey buddy, sorry, I just went straight Monk.... oh woah, now you can do as much damage as I do when I'm not using Power Attack! When, you PA you'd probably deal much better da--- oh, you don't qualify for it? Well, I'm sure your DEX gives you good AC-- oh, you lost 4 levels and your Barkskin, AC Bonus and CMD suffered a ton for it? Well, I mean, your accuracy must --- oh, your BAB is crap? Well, you have Sneak Attack when the stars align I guess... And your unarmed strikes deal no damage so your style strikes are crap...? And you STILL don't qualify for Dual Style Strikes to combine Flying Kick and Shattering Punch? And you are two feats down? And you still don't have Improved Critical? And you still don't qualify for KI Leech to sustain your powers and attacks? And your Elemental Fury lasts less than a fart? And you can't even use maneuvers because of that crap BAB?"
Etc.
STR Monk has been the thing since Unchained's been out. Anything else is trying too hard to be a SAD deity when this game doesn't require that level of cheese to make a much better character.
STR Monk has been the thing since Unchained's been out. Anything else is trying too hard to be a SAD deity when this game doesn't require that level of cheese to make a much better character.
+1
A few points. 1. I'm asking for a character that dumps multiple stats, I clearly have no problem with Cheese. 2. PFS effectively ends at 12th level. There are a couple of options for higher level play but this character won't be using them. 3. Unchained Monk can't take Archetypes in PFS. Not even Qinggong. Oh and Ability Focus is not PFS legal.
Thank you all for the suggestions so far. Even if I don't use some of them other players might.
I understand. This game just really doesn't cater to a martial dumping stats. A ten in dex for a fighter is dumping. The best you can hope to do without suffering horribly at any point is dump int and chr.
Also, didn't know you wanted multiple stat dumps. That and SAD, while often congruent, aren't dependent upon each other. Your mention of archers threw me off I guess. The most you get from dumping most of the time if a plus 1 to a few things at level one. SAD I thought meant you just pump one stat as much as possible, and can safely ignore everything else.
Also, the build I suggested was meant for core monk.
A few points. 1. I'm asking for a character that dumps multiple stats, I clearly have no problem with Cheese. 2. PFS effectively ends at 12th level. There are a couple of options for higher level play but this character won't be using them. 3. Unchained Monk can't take Archetypes in PFS. Not even Qinggong. Oh and Ability Focus is not PFS legal.
Thank you all for the suggestions so far. Even if I don't use some of them other players might.
Dude:
1. Unchained Monk can take Qingqong Powers BASELINE. They don't need an archetype.
2. Unchained Monks can currently take the Monk of the Mantis archetype. When Occult Origins is out, they'll have a second archetype.
3. My Sensei Monk is a base Monk, and I didn't mention Ability Focus as an actual part of the build.
4. Archers need STR as much as they need DEX so I'm not sure why you mentioned them.
Debuffing Sensei:
Human
S10 D12 C13 I12 W18+2 CH7Traits:
Quain Martial Artist, Honored Fist of the SocietyFeats:
1. Weapon Focus (Unarmed), Lingering Performance, Improved Grapple3. Mantis Style
5. Crushing Blow
7. Mantis Wisdom
9. Mantis Torment
11. Dimensional Agility
13. Touch of Serenity
Sprinkle with Qingqong powers to taste. Use Mystic Wisdom to share tons of powers and boosts. You could theoretically share True Strike with it.
Your main role: teleport right next to the priority target, Stunning Fist his ass to oblivion. DC is going to be pretty damn high.
If Ability Focus is allowed as a feat, don't doubt in taking it.
Crushing Blow is good to enemies that would be immune to stunning and such, and it makes the enemy lose a phat chunk of AC.
Once you get Touch of Serenity, you can lock down high Fort or Fort-immune enemies such as Undead.
And on top of that, you are basically a Bard in terms of performances.
How do you get Weapon Focus at level 1? Monks have a 0 BAB at level 1. If you mean an Unchained Monk, archetypes aren't legal for PFS.
Pffft, you are right, got too mixed up with UnMonk, Weapon Focus is my go-to first feat for them. Replace that with whatever. Imp. Initiative or something like that.
People have mentioned Guided Hand melee Cleric, but the real awesomeness there is a Guided Hand melee Cleric with a single level of Unchained Monk. With an extra attack per round, Divine Favor + Fate's Favored, and full two-handed power attack, the fact that your strength isn't stacked really isn't that important. When you have a focused Wisdom modifier, wisdom AC is actually pretty notable stuff.
Another really great thing about a high-wisdom melee Cleric is that your DC is stacked for all sorts of awesome things. Aura of Doom is perfect for melee. Mantis Style + Cornugon Stun is an option that picks up several weapon-based Stunning Fist attacks per day with monstrous DC. Domain abilities like Aura of Chaos fit perfectly. And so on.
A few points. 1. I'm asking for a character that dumps multiple stats, I clearly have no problem with Cheese. 2. PFS effectively ends at 12th level. There are a couple of options for higher level play but this character won't be using them. 3. Unchained Monk can't take Archetypes in PFS. Not even Qinggong. Oh and Ability Focus is not PFS legal.
Thank you all for the suggestions so far. Even if I don't use some of them other players might.
Dude:
1. Unchained Monk can take Qingqong Powers BASELINE. They don't need an archetype.
2. Unchained Monks can currently take the Monk of the Mantis archetype. When Occult Origins is out, they'll have a second archetype.
3. My Sensei Monk is a base Monk, and I didn't mention Ability Focus as an actual part of the build.
4. Archers need STR as much as they need DEX so I'm not sure why you mentioned them.
You are correct. I remember they said Unchained Monks were not allowed to take existing archetypes when the Unchained book was released but I hadn't realized new archetypes had been released.
I mentioned archers because I have multiple archers and they are all built pretty much the same way. 14 Str, 14 Con, dump Cha, dump Int, Max Dex or in the case of Zen Archer Wis.