Eldritch Archer... Dual wield pistols? Or hand crossbows?


Rules Questions


Question in title.

First, relevant texts:

Range Arcane Bond wrote:
At 1st level, an eldritch archer gains a bonded object as per the wizard's arcane bonded object; it must be a ranged weapon, and it can't be used to cast a spell once per day. (1)Holding her bonded item does not prevent the eldritch archer from providing somatic components for her spells.
Ranged Spell Combat wrote:

Instead of a light or one-handed melee weapon, an eldritch archer must use a ranged weapon for spell combat. (2)She doesn't need a free hand for ranged spell combat. The eldritch archer cannot accept an attack penalty to gain a bonus on concentration checks to cast a spell defensively.

This ability modifies spell combat.

1) shows that the normal reason for being unable to hold anything in the other hand, the somatic component, is bypassed.

2) removes the limitation that prevents a normal magus from dual wielding, even if he has still spell.

So the question we're left with, I think, is this. Does "An eldritch archer must use a ranged weapon for spell combat." throw a wrench in this whole thing? I can see it interpreted both ways.

What do you guys think?


What about material components?

What about reloading?


Fairly simple to avoid spells that require material components. For example, the key spell of the class, scorching ray, has no material components.

As for reloading, if you're using simple firearms, then alchemical rounds reduces the reload time to a move action, and rapid reload further reduces it to a free action. In addition, if you argue that you need a free hand, you could always argue a tiefling's prehensile tail, at the very least.

In fact couldn't the prehensile tail manipulate material components as well?

EDIT: For a preliminary build, you could...

Take pistol as arcane bond, but use a simple longbow at level 1.
level 1 - Amateur gunslinger (rapid reload requires weapon prof, weapon prof requires BaB 1). Take the "quick clear" ability.
level 3 - Exotic weapon proficiency - you can start using spell combat every other round with your gun, or stick to a bow if you want to use it every turn.
level 5 - Rapid reload - You can now use a single pistol with every attack provided by spell combat and spellstrike
level 7 - Two-Weapon Fighting - You now can dual wield pistols.
level 9 - Improved two-weapon fighting - dual wield moar.


Spell combat is a full-round action that acts like two-weapon fighting except it lets you make your standard number of attacks and also cast a spell. The language is incompatible with two-weapon fighting even without the stipulation that you must have a hand free. The 'a ranged weapon' is just the extra coffin nail.

You could certainly dual wield and use two-weapon fighting when not using spell combat.... but I doubt that is what you want.

As an aside: you absolutely need a hand free in order to reload even as a free action. There are a few ways to get around this though, such as vestigal arm or gun twirling.


It would depend on how many free actions your GM will allow you to do. You will also need Quickdraw in order to holster a one pistol in order to reload the other one.

Holster - reload - holster - draw - reload - draw. That's 6 free actions you are asking your GM to approve... without even getting to multiple attacks per round due to BAB.

I do not think a tail can reload a gun, but it can hold one- is that a free action to pass a gun to your tail?

I am not up on the specifics on tail manipulating material components... can a tail do so? I would say so. Can the tail find them? That I am not sure about.

As a GM, I would say no. I believe (as in opinion) that the not-needing a free hand to spell combat was put in there so that you can use wands and rods (as per the magus arcana) not that you can dual wield ranged weapons.

I'm playing an Eldritch Archer (using a longbow) and it's working well so far - the biggest obstacle I can see is that you'll never get the crit range of a melee magus.

Also, the feats are killer... Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Two-Weapon Fighting, Quickdraw just for starters.


Gol Falx wrote:

It would depend on how many free actions your GM will allow you to do. You will also need Quickdraw in order to holster a one pistol in order to reload the other one.

Holster - reload - holster - draw - reload - draw. That's 6 free actions you are asking your GM to approve... without even getting to multiple attacks per round due to BAB.

I do not think a tail can reload a gun, but it can hold one- is that a free action to pass a gun to your tail?

I am not up on the specifics on tail manipulating material components... can a tail do so? I would say so. Can the tail find them? That I am not sure about.

As a GM, I would say no. I believe (as in opinion) that the not-needing a free hand to spell combat was put in there so that you can use wands and rods (as per the magus arcana) not that you can dual wield ranged weapons.

I'm playing an Eldritch Archer (using a longbow) and it's working well so far - the biggest obstacle I can see is that you'll never get the crit range of a melee magus.

Also, the feats are killer... Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Two-Weapon Fighting, Quickdraw just for starters.

Quickdraw doesn't let you holster as a free action - you need gun twirling for that, which means you ALSO need amateur gunslinger (and dazzling display and weapon focus).

Here is the prehensile tail text for the tiefling:

Prehensile Tail: Many tieflings have tails, but some have long, flexible tails that can be used to carry items. While they cannot wield weapons with their tails, they can use them to retrieve small, stowed objects carried on their persons as a swift action. This racial trait replaces fiendish sorcery.

I think you would be extremely hard pressed to find a GM who would allow this tail to reload or hold a weapon. Gun twirling or vestigal limb are safer options.


I guess it does seem like asking for too much.

It's too bad. I was kinda excited about the idea of a western looking dude who shoots what appears to be lasers out of his pistols.

Dark Archive

The answer is actually yes/occult adventures needs errata to make one of its archetypes function:

Mindblade wrote:
When using two-weapon fighting with two psychic weapons or a psychic double weapon, the mindblade can use her spell combat ability as though she had a hand free.


I guess the best way to get to play a cowboy types who duel wields would be to give him two revolvers. but keep in mind that you will need to reload. early game it won't be that much of an issue. with two attacks per round you'd have to spend a full round action reloading both your weapons. and thats with the rapid reload feat.

I had an idea of dual wielding hand repeating crossbows. however the issue with those was that you needed a free hand to pull the lever that knocks the next bolt into place. the only way around this is the alchemists vestigial arm or the spell unseen servant.

however I know a lot of people who wouldn't allow this and I can see why. you can make the point that while using one of these spells to reload isn't using it to attack, you are using it to grant you an additional attack in the long run because it saves you on having to take a turn to reload. its an argument i'm on the fence about myself.


I suppose if you had the feats to make a crossbow (of any kind) work as a bow (ie the drawing of the string and nocking an arrow is part of the attack action) you can reason out other ways to "pull the lever".

For instance, if you could tinker, you could make a belt/leg contraption that allowed you to push the hand crossbow down the side of your leg, as if you were holstering a gun, which catches a nocking mechanism which will cock your hand crossbow (the clip for a repeating one would have to be under-slung and spring loaded).

You could also try the super-tinker approach of gears and winding: When you first load the repeating hand crossbow (RHCB), you wind the gear system up which will auto-cock the RHCB after it fires. The gears will continue to do this for the entire clip which then would require you to wind the gears up after changing clips. It would be up to you on how to negotiate with your GM how long this would take.

Also, you could always ask your GM if you can enchant your crossbow to auto-cock, I couldn't seen it being worth more than +1 equivalent value.

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