Smite Evil, nonevil undead

[My Self]

So let's say you've got a Paladin fighting a nonevil undead, such as this one. Does Smite Evil work?

d20pfsrd wrote:

Smite Evil (Su)

Once per day, a paladin can call out to the powers of good to aid her in her struggle against evil. As a swift action, the paladin chooses one target within sight to smite. If this target is evil, the paladin adds her Cha bonus (if any) to her attack rolls and adds her paladin level to all damage rolls made against the target of her smite. If the target of smite evil is an outsider with the evil subtype, an evil-aligned dragon, or an undead creature, the bonus to damage on the first successful attack increases to 2 points of damage per level the paladin possesses. Regardless of the target, smite evil attacks automatically bypass any DR the creature might possess.

In addition, while smite evil is in effect, the paladin gains a deflection bonus equal to her Charisma modifier (if any) to her AC against attacks made by the target of the smite. If the paladin targets a creature that is not evil, the smite is wasted with no effect.

The smite evil effect remains until the target of the smite is dead or the next time the paladin rests and regains her uses of this ability. At 4th level, and at every three levels thereafter, the paladin may smite evil one additional time per day, as indicated on Table: Paladin, to a maximum of seven times per day at 19th level.

[ermak_umk3]

I would assume yes, it clearly states undead but does not specify an alignment

[Paul Watson]

Not evil, no damage. the damage bonus increases, but if you're not evil there's no Smite Evil bomus to increase, so no damage.
Plus there's the "If the target is not evil, the smite is wasted with no effect." so no evil, no smite.

[Fuzzy-Wuzzy]

It does not, because "If the paladin targets a creature that is not evil, the smite is wasted with no effect." Though personally I would houserule it to work on any non-good undead.

Undead are mentioned only as a category that increases the bonus to damage. They are not called out as a category of creatures to be affected.

[My Self]

So general consensus that it doesn't work on nonevil undead?

[Claxon]

It doesn't affect non-evil creatures. Whether it be non-evil undead, or non-evil dragons.

None of those would actually be evil, and despite that fact that smite gets doubled against them (if it actually worked) doesn't give cause to have it work.

If they're not evil, it doesn't work.

[Paladin of Baha-who?]

0x2 = 0

[Cavall]

I would say it does double level damage. It's clearly stated the outsiders and dragons must have an evil subtype or alignment
It calls that out specifically. It does not do so for undead.

Undead to me would be an exception to the "must be evil" as they are called out and alignment is not mentioned. They are made of negative energy and damaged by positive energy. The smite disrupts that.

It's not 0x2. It's level x 2.

[TriOmegaZero]

My Self wrote:

So general consensus that it doesn't work on nonevil undead?

Correct. No effect means no effect.

[Blackvial]

name one non-evil undead though

[Jeraa]

Blackvial wrote:

name one non-evil undead though

Pretty much any non-mindless undead have the capability of being non-evil.

Quote:

Alignment, Size, and Type: While a monster's size and type remain constant (unless changed by the application of templates or other unusual modifiers), alignment is far more fluid. The alignments listed for each monster in this book represent the norm for those monsters—they can vary as you require them to in order to serve the needs of your campaign. Only in the case of relatively unintelligent monsters (creatures with an Intelligence of 2 or lower are almost never anything other than neutral) and planar monsters (outsiders with alignments other than those listed are unusual and typically outcasts from their kind) is the listed alignment relatively unchangeable.

[My Self]

Blackvial wrote:

name one non-evil undead though

My Self wrote:

So let's say you've got a Paladin fighting a nonevil undead, such as this one.

I'm not above quoting My Self

[CampinCarl9127]

The first successful smite attack versus any undead deals double paladin level damage.

Smite evil does not work on anything that is not evil.

No bonus damage x 2 = no bonus damage. So yes, you get all the multiplier for the zero bonus damage.

[Finlanderboy]

Blackvial wrote:

name one non-evil undead though

Deathweb,Ectoplasmic Creatures, and i am sure there are more.

[Nox Aeterna]

Well , the name is smite evil.

Blackvial wrote:

name one non-evil undead though

Deppends on your game.

Playing in a campaign full of neutral and even some good vampires right now for example , while ofc there are also plenty of evil ones , on this table you wont get far if you assume a race = an alignment.

[Diego Rossi]

Already pointed out, but it seem it need repeating:

PRD wrote:

If the paladin targets a creature that is not evil, the smite is wasted with no effect.

That is a phrase all by itself,after the undead part, so it applies to all the previous text. There is not anything "specific" about the undead overriding a general "only evil creatures". There is a "don't work against non evil" applying to all the text in the ability.

There are specific rules about the alignment saying that creatures with the evil subtype are affected by smite evil even if they aren't evil, but those creatures are exceedingly rare.

[Paladin of Baha-who?]

So, if an evil outsider became an undead of a type that keeps its subtypes, such as a vampire, and became redeemed to the point of no longer being evil, smite evil would still work on it.

Don't hold your breath waiting for one of those to show up, though.

[Rub-Eta]

Blackvial wrote:

name one non-evil undead though

Characters with the Ghost template. While the typical ghost is CE, there is nothing in the template that changes your alighnment.

[My Self]

Rub-Eta wrote:

Blackvial wrote:

name one non-evil undead though

Characters with the Ghost template. While the typical ghost is CE, there is nothing in the template that changes your alighnment.

Yeah, I kinda posted an example in the first post. But nobody noticed. :(