Zhayne |
So ... rookie player. Keeps insisting on playing a druid, despite also insisting that she'll just be there to heal and has no intentions of entering combat (except to pull people out of the front lines). I am having trouble getting through to her that, in general, druids are good combatants and poor healers.
Plus, rookies really need to NOT play druids. Wild shape is complicated. Prep spell casting is complicated (so is Spont casting, really, but prep is worse). Animal companions are complicated.
So, what she *really* wants is a phone-it-in healbot. My initial reflex is a Life Oracle. Every other option I can think of is just too complicated for a rookie.
Anybody know of any phone-it-in healbot classes, PF or 3pp?
Davor |
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Make a complex support character that can also heal. Make her a halfling, take the Helpful trait, and pick up combat reflexes/bodyguard. Combine that with Wild Shapes that have exceptional reach. You can even do the same with her animal companion once it hits 3 int., OR you can pick up a familiar-granting domain, give her a familiar oriented around support, and have her CONSTANTLY buffing nearby ally AC/Attacks.
The best form of healing is damage prevention.
Alternatively, just tell your DM to adjust encounters for 1 fewer player, and build her that crappy healbot and don't worry about it.
Qaianna |
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Most people need to learn things for themselves.
Let her do what she wants, send the animal companion forward to fight.
I'd watch this very carefully. Experience is the best teacher (it's why they're experience points, not book points), but watch for how the other players are doing too. Try to make sure no-one else is overly suffering from poor decisions by this player, and maybe leave things flexible for her in case she learns the hard way that a 1d8+3 CLW grope won't keep up with the bugbear's 1d10+6 heavy flail.
It's always an instinct to start healing damage in a fight, but the nature of the game is that the best way to mitigate damage is to do something about the guy who's inflicting all of it. When our cleric pondered what to do in this kind of situation last session, I actually did suggest he go in swinging instead of zapping the barbarian up from 5hp. (And this way my barbarian too.) Granted, he missed, but I don't think a CLW would've helped me overly much at that point, as the fight was still going on.
Anonymous Visitor 163 576 |
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When I say this, I of course mean, let the new player learn the game as we did, over time.
It's tempting to open with a barrage of 'do this and this and this', but it can be too much, too fast.
Also, listen to her. she chose Druid. Do you even know why? You should, or you won't be able to help.
Over time, as different things come up, you'll have time to teach her that 'Druids counter invisibility with faerie fire', for example.
And Forty, of course rookie players make rookie mistakes. Your choices are educate or complain.
Cavall |
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They chose druid. Let them play druid.
Everyone freaks out when someone said a guy is being told to play a healer or else and they say drop the game. This guy's playing what he wants. Don't push what you want from the game on to them.
Instead involve them in roleplaying. As much as you can. Ask them their opinions. Ask them for buffs they could give.
But saying they should be playing a different class is wrong.
Zhayne |
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Sorry, Cavall, if she's saying 'I want to play a healer', then she's picking druid, she's not playing a healer. Druids don't do that well.
That's like saying you want to play a sneaky, underhanded, backstabbing scoundrel and going 'I'm gonna be a paladin'.
I'm reasonably sure I overheard her saying she didn't care about Wild Shape or Animal Companions. My guess is that she likes the flavor of the druid, or has an image of a druid as a heal-heavy class from another source like a fantasy novel.
My Self |
Perhaps a Lunar Oracle would be better? No wild shape, but still spontaneously heals, has a fuzzy buddy, and can pick up channel through Spirit Guide archetype.
Depends on the level, though. At low levels, a life oracle is a much better healer.
Also, if she's not on the frontline, give her a bow or at least recommend it.
Kobold Commando |
Druids do make ok stealth casters, and that can be an advantage for touch spells like healing. Going tiny or diminutive snake or bird form and crawling into people's clothing to heal from total concealment is a trick they can easily do that clerics really can't.
If you can talk your DM into letting her take the healing domain, that at least provides a few on-level healing spells if she decides the animal companion breaks too much from her goal of dedicated healing, but most new players tend to want to go druid in part for the animal companion anyways.
Qaianna |
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Sorry, Cavall, if she's saying 'I want to play a healer', then she's picking druid, she's not playing a healer. Druids don't do that well.
That's like saying you want to play a sneaky, underhanded, backstabbing scoundrel and going 'I'm gonna be a paladin'.
I'm reasonably sure I overheard her saying she didn't care about Wild Shape or Animal Companions. My guess is that she likes the flavor of the druid, or has an image of a druid as a heal-heavy class from another source like a fantasy novel.
In that case, perhaps a repackaged Gozreh (or other nature god) cleric might help. Again, gentle prods -- and let her know that there are other ways to get from point A to point B in this game. (Just some roads are rougher than others, of course.)
Finlanderboy |
I hate people getting stuck on the names of the classes and insisting on being them.
I had a new guy in love with naruto. SO he made a ninja. I brought an oracle and started slinging spells and doing crazier things and he said that he wanted a character that did what I was doing.
I highly encourage people to not flip through the books and pick out things. There are too much. So I ask what abilities do you want?
You can make a cleric with an animal companion, a fighter with mutagens, and a wide variety of things. The classes all seems to mix. What about the druid does she want?
Does she want to be a natury person that heals? Well cleric that worships the green faith. Take the animal domain and the feat that bumps the level back up for animals and bam. A druid without wild shape.
requiem_in_mortis |
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We have a phone-it-in Life Oracle Healbot in our game. He does nothing but suck up exp and doesn't contribute. All of the new players I meet lately thinks there needs to be a WoW type healer that does absolutely nothing except for cast maybe one spell once per combat.
WoW is ruining "healers"
To be fair, Life Oracle's entire schtick is being a healbot. Though being a healbot is no excuse to be lazy; I hate players who choose a class that's intended for a certain role, and then do jack all when not acting in that role (the worst offenders tend to be people who choose combat classes and sit with their thumb up their ass when not in combat).
And the "party healer is only there to heal people" mentality is far older than WoW; I've had 1st Ed. veterans question why the party Cleric was doing anything but healing party members. It's a big part of the reason I refuse to play divine casters; I don't want to be lumped in as the guy who's only there to keep the rest of the party alive.
Markov Spiked Chain |
Witch Doctor Life Shaman with a high Cha has druid flavor, and phone it in heals. Evil Eye is a fine, easy to understand contribution if no-one needs to be healed. Selective Channel at 1st, Extra Revelation(Life Link) at 3rd. Worship Milani for Beacon of Hope at 5th. She'll have a bunch of spells prepared that she can't start using any time. :) She'll have a pretty cool pet, that doesn't need to be pushed into combat, but easily could later on if it's a Mauler.
If you're the GM, or you can recommend it to the GM, switch Cure Light Wounds for Detect Undead in Life's Spirit Magic. This isn't needed, I just think it's an oversight in the cut-and-paste from Life Oracle (who all get CLW automatically, so it's not on any Mystery.)
Cavall |
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Sorry, Cavall, if she's saying 'I want to play a healer', then she's picking druid, she's not playing a healer. Druids don't do that well.
That's like saying you want to play a sneaky, underhanded, backstabbing scoundrel and going 'I'm gonna be a paladin'.
I'm reasonably sure I overheard her saying she didn't care about Wild Shape or Animal Companions. My guess is that she likes the flavor of the druid, or has an image of a druid as a heal-heavy class from another source like a fantasy novel.
You don't have to be sorry.
She's playing a healer. Just not an optimal healer. But she's new and is allowed to learn as she goes.
Your example is way off base as a Druid CAN heal. That's nothing like a paladin / rogue.
I gave you some examples in how she can contribute otherwise. She needs encouragement to play not to be told she's doing it wrong.
When you tell a new player they are doing what they want to do to incorrectly you often lose a new player and that sucks for everyone. She doesn't play and now you've no healing at all.
Let her play it.
SodiumTelluride |
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For the record, my very first character was a 3.5 half-elf druid. The DM considered this to be just about the worst possible combination, but I had a lot of fun with it. Lost three animal companions until I realized that beyond the first few levels your companion isn't a viable combatant. However, I fell in love with the complexity of the game and maybe she will too.
Having said that, if she wants to be a healer who can safely learn the mechanics of the game, here's my vote: gnome cleric with Heavy Armor Proficiency. Give her the Travel domain so she at least has a decent movement speed. That way, she can traipse around the battlefield in no real danger of being hit (and decent HP if she does), healing to her heart's content.
Above all, though, if she wants to be a druid let her be a druid. She may, like me, realize once she gets into it what a druid is best at and start playing to her strengths. I know our instincts tell us that it's usually not much fun to be ineffective, especially if you're new. But let her learn the game for herself.
Jaunt |
I'm all for letting her figure it out herself. If you want to tone down the encounters a little bit to compensate for her being awful, feel free to, and if she turns out to be good, even better.
If you're worried about the class being too complicated just tell her she has to figure out her options in a reasonable amount of time, not use them, or reroll. If you read the wildshape rules once and go "whoa, no way", you're not going to do that again every time you get in a new encounter.