Build Challenge: Holy Rogue


Advice


Just that. Interpret these two words together as a viable class build! Anything goes.

Scarab Sages

Sanctified Slayer Inquisitor. Done.


Imbicatus wrote:
Sanctified Slayer Inquisitor. Done.

A WINNER IS YOU!

Seriously, you cannot be more rogue and "holy" in a single class then that.

Grand Lodge

Hmm, cleric/rogue multiclass? lol


Dhrakken wrote:
Hmm, cleric/rogue multiclass? lol

Or perhaps Paladin//Unchained Rogue Gestalt.

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Imbicatus wrote:
Sanctified Slayer Inquisitor. Done.

Toss in a level of Urban or Trapper ranger for trapfinding.

Scarab Sages

RainyDayNinja wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
Sanctified Slayer Inquisitor. Done.
Toss in a level of Urban or Trapper ranger for trapfinding.

You could take it with a slayer talent if desired.

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Imbicatus wrote:
RainyDayNinja wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
Sanctified Slayer Inquisitor. Done.
Toss in a level of Urban or Trapper ranger for trapfinding.
You could take it with a slayer talent if desired.

Yeah, but not until level 8, which is a bit long to wait for an iconic class feature.

Grand Lodge

My Self wrote:
Dhrakken wrote:
Hmm, cleric/rogue multiclass? lol
Or perhaps Paladin//Unchained Rogue Gestalt.

I would think this combo would offer some hefty moral issues.


Balanced Scale of Abadar

Separatist cleric with the Trickery domain gives some nifty spells, too. ;)


Dhrakken wrote:
My Self wrote:
Dhrakken wrote:
Hmm, cleric/rogue multiclass? lol
Or perhaps Paladin//Unchained Rogue Gestalt.
I would think this combo would offer some hefty moral issues.

Why?

Grand Lodge

Athaleon wrote:
Dhrakken wrote:
My Self wrote:
Dhrakken wrote:
Hmm, cleric/rogue multiclass? lol
Or perhaps Paladin//Unchained Rogue Gestalt.
I would think this combo would offer some hefty moral issues.
Why?

Some people can't see past the Class name.

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blackbloodtroll wrote:
Athaleon wrote:
Dhrakken wrote:
My Self wrote:
Dhrakken wrote:
Hmm, cleric/rogue multiclass? lol
Or perhaps Paladin//Unchained Rogue Gestalt.
I would think this combo would offer some hefty moral issues.
Why?

Some people can't see past the Class name.

To an extent, the usual tropes can interfere with imagining this working.

I think the more relevant question, though, is whether the rogue's sneak attack, and other dirty fighting themed abilities interfere with the paladin code, which says you have to fight "fair".


It would certainly be a challenge, at the very least.


mechaPoet wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
Athaleon wrote:
Dhrakken wrote:
My Self wrote:
Dhrakken wrote:
Hmm, cleric/rogue multiclass? lol
Or perhaps Paladin//Unchained Rogue Gestalt.
I would think this combo would offer some hefty moral issues.
Why?

Some people can't see past the Class name.

To an extent, the usual tropes can interfere with imagining this working.

I think the more relevant question, though, is whether the rogue's sneak attack, and other dirty fighting themed abilities interfere with the paladin code, which says you have to fight "fair".

Nothing requires a Rogue to forego Sneak Attack etc. if they want to maintain a Lawful and/or Good alignment. They explicitly can't use poison, but PCs don't poison anyways, because it's trash. The rest is vague: "act with honor", "and so forth". Are Paladins not allowed to get flanking bonuses? Are they not allowed to use ranged weapons against enemies not similarly equipped? As always, the more I think about Alignment the more I wonder why it exists at all.

Edit: Right there in post #2 is the Sanctified Slayer Inquisitor. Let's say he was a Lawful Good devotee of Iomedae, or Sarenrae, Erastil, etc. Would he be required to forego Sneak Attack?

Scarab Sages

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It's hardly fair for a Paladin to gain +CHA to hit and +level to damage against an evil foe who unable to respond in kind.

Grand Lodge

"Sneak Attack" is a misnomer.

It requires no evil, sneaky, or "dirty" tactics.

Class names, and class ability names, are often things people simply decide there is only one flavor for.

A Rogue can be as astute an agent of good, and fairness, as any Paladin.

Liberty's Edge

Rogue. NG (any good, really, but NG is the epitome of *holy*) He attends the needs of his NG god as best he can. All else is window dressing.

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I'm not saying it shouldn't be allowed, just that it gives me pause. I would expect table variation. The set of mechanics of the sneak attack doesn't involve anything explicitly underhanded, but it carries an undeniable narrative weight.

In other words, a paladin's code may interfere with sneak attack, because even though you can decide on the flavor or narrative of a mechanical ability, it carries meaning tied to a cultural trope that those mechanics reflect/try to represent. So saying "sneak attacks don't have to be sneaky" is fine, but they also CAN be, you know?

In any case, the sanctified slayer seems perfect for this. I suppose it depends on whether "holy" means general divine or good-aligned divine for the concept as a whole.


since we're playing familiy feud and the top answer (sanctified slayer) was already given, I'm gonna toss in the most obvious of them all: Sanctified Rogue


Balanced Scale of Abadar!!

I just love the RP idea of "Yes, that is quite a tasty apple... but not nearly as tasty as the First Apple!"

xD


3 people marked this as a favorite.
mechaPoet wrote:

I'm not saying it shouldn't be allowed, just that it gives me pause. I would expect table variation. The set of mechanics of the sneak attack doesn't involve anything explicitly underhanded, but it carries an undeniable narrative weight.

In other words, a paladin's code may interfere with sneak attack, because even though you can decide on the flavor or narrative of a mechanical ability, it carries meaning tied to a cultural trope that those mechanics reflect/try to represent. So saying "sneak attacks don't have to be sneaky" is fine, but they also CAN be, you know?

In any case, the sanctified slayer seems perfect for this. I suppose it depends on whether "holy" means general divine or good-aligned divine for the concept as a whole.

The "Paladin's Code" is poorly defined b*@+@~&!. When it's better defined, it's scattered throughout a bunch of books that nobody pays attention to.

I swear, the "Paladin's Code" is perhaps one of the worst things about this damned game and definitely one of the worst things about this community. Can't have a single mention of the word "Paladin" without 6 people chiming in about their wildly different opinions on whatever. They either need to make an itemized list of what is and is not ok for a Paladin to do, in plain language, or switch to a very few, well defined tenants like 5th edition did.

Want to be a Paladin with Sneak Attack? Fine. Follow Sarenrae:

Paladin of Sarenrae Oath, Faiths of Purity pg 26 wrote:

The best battle is a battle I win. If I die, I can no longer

fight. I will fight fairly when the fight is fair, and I will
strike quickly and without mercy when it is not.

Can't think of too many demons, evil dragons, necromancers, or bandits that fight "fairly."

How about Iomedae?

Paladin of Iomedae Oath, from Archives of Nethys wrote:
I will never refuse a challenge from an equal. I will give honor to worthy enemies, and contempt to the rest.

Can't think of too many opponents worthy of honor in a typical adventure path, most of them are pretty dishonorable, despicable, and generally s#@#ty people/things. They go in the folder labeled "contempt."

So that's two of the most stuck-up, goody-two-shoes ladies in the pantheon and their explictly defined oaths seem to be a-ok with being as brutal as possible when the situation calls for it. They at least put it in an acceptable grey area.

Don't get me started on Torag.

Can we put this damn thing to bed?

Grand Lodge

If you shove a big piece of forced flavor down a player's throat, because of a class name, or ability name, then you lack the imagination to even run a successful game.

Perhaps Yahtzee is a better choice.


They Gray Warden prestige class may be a good option.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/gray-warde n


With dragon age in mind, Leliana is basically this character.


Gestalt sanctified slayer/sanctified rogue sure there is unreasonable overlap but flavor is there


A surprising number of knife master rogues are obedient servants of Pharasma.

Seeker oracles are holy enough and have the basic skills to break in to places. Any number of mysteries are of assistance to sneaky types, but lunar and wind stand out to me.

Rangers can take both the trapper and divine tracker archetypes if they want to.


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Funny you mention that, I have a character currently playing as a

4th Level Rogue (Knife Master/Scout)
1st Level Gunslinger (Bolt Ace)
1st Level Evangelist of Pharasma

He plans on following that path out to lvl 15 with her to get the holy form from 10th level Evangelist.

Hes part of my Carrion's Crown group. The Bolt ace is due to a crossbow marksmen (Dreamscarred 3rd party) character who died previously in the campaign. Cella (the rogue) took up his crossbow and multiclassed to carry on his legacy.

Dark Archive

I went the other way for shattered star

Lore warden 1
Rogue knife master 4
Evangelist 10

Lore warden to open the knowledges for training. Know where to stick the knife and which one to use.


blackbloodtroll wrote:

If you shove a big piece of forced flavor down a player's throat, because of a class name, or ability name, then you lack the imagination to even run a successful game.

Perhaps Yahtzee is a better choice.

Or being a chef.


Arturus Caeldhon wrote:
Just that. Interpret these two words together as a viable class build! Anything goes.

Warpriest with the Cult Leader Archetype

(note: not saying it's better than the Sanctified Slayer Inquisitor... but it is another option).


It is PERFECTLY OK for a paladin to go "SNEAK ATTACK"

They are limited by their code though and can not go "SNEAK ATTACK B*@#+!!!" as Hailey would do.


Ughbash wrote:

It is PERFECTLY OK for a paladin to go "SNEAK ATTACK"

They are limited by their code though and can not go "SNEAK ATTACK B*@$$!!!" as Hailey would do.

All I could think of was a Dave Chapelle Paladin going "GOTCHA B****!"


The Deliverer Slayer is another option. It's not one of the more powerful options though.


Un-rouge* with a curve blade and a wand of holy sword. Problem solved.
Edit: I mistyped you cheeky scrub.
*Think green, not quite blue becuase rouge ain't that good

Grand Lodge

Is "un-rouge" a new color of green.


Yes, yes it is.

Sovereign Court

Just take a rogue and start stabbing him with a spear and... oh... HOLY, not HOLEY...

nvm

Shadow Lodge

Paladin/Ninja has a ton of synergy. Obviously, Charisma is used in both. Good saves assist the ninja's bad ones, and smiting while TWF augments a ninja's sneak attack. Self healing also helps the vulnerable ninja. You wind up with a decent number of skills, decent survivability, and good damage.

A Paladin/Ninja is top of my list of classes I would like to play.

Sovereign Court

Broken Zenith wrote:

Paladin/Ninja has a ton of synergy. Obviously, Charisma is used in both. Good saves assist the ninja's bad ones, and smiting while TWF augments a ninja's sneak attack. Self healing also helps the vulnerable ninja. You wind up with a decent number of skills, decent survivability, and good damage.

A Paladin/Ninja is top of my list of classes I would like to play.

Seems like a very solid gish (if you're in a gish campaign obviously) - but actually multiclassing would have major issues as both classes have too much which is level based.


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Underground Chemist / Sanctified Rogue

Sneak attack with Holy Water.

Surprise Baptism!


DebugAMP wrote:

Underground Chemist / Sanctified Rogue

Sneak attack with Holy Water.

Surprise Baptism!

Hilarious!

I was hoping that a trickster cleric archetype would emerge from this discussion, like a cleric that swaps out channel energy for sneak attack for instance.

Grand Lodge

Here's a Ninja/Cleric Dip build that gets a lot of mileage out of the combination. The character itself isn't exactly a holy man but could be slightly refluffed and reworked to be exactly that.


Inquisitor (Sanctified Slayer) with Rogue VMC and the War Domain = Dastardly Finish at 11th, and later Merciless Butchery... also has both Stalwart and Evasion... Any other information about this build is in Secret's Wizard guide to VMC

Silver Crusade

Wind Oracle.

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