Is studded leather vulnerable to rust and other dangers to metal?


Rules Questions

Scarab Sages

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It's a little bit of a border case, isn't it? It seems to me like it should be, since it is the metal studs that provide most of the protection, but I can imagine people answering in the negative as well.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Yes and no.
Without all the metal inserts, it is still leather armor. The rings, studs, and inserts are spread out so it isn't as vulnerable to rusting magic as true metal armor would be - leaving it to GM fiat territory if a rust monster was set loose on the studded leather wearer. I would expect a PFS GM to rule such damaged armor as just leather armor.

Scarab Sages

Could it be fixed? For how much? What if it was enchanted? What about other effects, bad or good, that specifically target metal?

Scarab Sages

There are two ways I would judge that... either damage to the metal causes the armor to count as leather armor or say that the metal counts as half the hp of the armor. So, something that could damage the metal could bring the armor to the broken condition but not destroyed.
Either which way, there is no hard and fast rule to go by that I am aware of.


I'd say no. Unless you're going to roll around on a rust monster you should be ok because you'll only lose a few studs here and there, not enough to affect the armor class. Minor armor repairs like that are already covered in your cost of living or what have you, you just rivet some back on there.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Unlike Palladium fantasy, there are no rules for armor repair.

Then again, spells like "make whole" or "mend" can sidestep that issue.

Sczarni

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Scarab Sages

Studded Leather is not leather armor with studs. Leather armor is boiled leather that is thickened and hardened. Studded leather is a soft thin layer of leather with lots of small plates riveted to it. Almost all of the protection for studded leather is from the plates. It's vulnerable to heat metal and the like. I'd also rule that the exposed rivets (the "studs") give a path to the metal plates, and can be rusted via a rust monster or rusting grasp spell.

Grand Lodge

It depends. Can you make your studded leather out of alternate metals? I've never seen anyone do that (at least for PFS). If you can do that then it's vulnerable to rust. If you can't do that then you're fine and it's not rusted. It's either leather or metal. In this case I'd have to say it's leather.

Sczarni

You can make it out of Bone.

Though I believe even magically strengthened Bone Studded Leather is one point of AC less (it's just not fragile).

Sczarni

claudekennilol wrote:
It depends. Can you make your studded leather out of alternate metals? I've never seen anyone do that (at least for PFS). If you can do that then it's vulnerable to rust. If you can't do that then you're fine and it's not rusted. It's either leather or metal. In this case I'd have to say it's leather.

But does it not count as metal armor when it comes to druids?

Grand Lodge

Can it be made from mithiril is more what he was asking. If yes, it is a metal armor, has issues with rust heat metal and shocking grasp, druids cannot wear it, etc. If it can't then the opposite is true.


There is an alchemical leaf armor for druids to equate studded leather, which would be pointlessly expensive if they could just use studded leather.


Linky

Druids don't seem to be able to wear studded leather, and as BNG stated, there is an alternative specifically for them because of this.

Thus studded leather must fulfill the metal armor clause of the druid's proficiencies a la modus ponen.

So yes, studded leather can be rusted and such.

Scarab Sages

For those who do not know what studded leather armor is in Pathfinder.

Ultimate Equiptment wrote:


Studded Leather
An improved form of leather armor, studded leather armor is covered with dozens of metal protuberances. While these rounded studs offer little defense individually, in the numbers they are arrayed in upon such armor, they help catch lethal edges and channel them away from vital spots. The rigidity caused by the additional metal does, however, result in less mobility than is afforded by a suit of normal leather armor.

Bolding mine

According to the description, in Pathfinder, studded leather armor is not brigandine, but its own thing. It is normal leather armor that has many metal studs in it to deflect blows.
Normal leather armor without those studs is... well, just leather armor with small holes in it.

For those who do not know, brigandine armor is made of light leather(soft leather) that has plates stitched or riveted to it.

Dark Archive

claudekennilol wrote:
It depends. Can you make your studded leather out of alternate metals? I've never seen anyone do that (at least for PFS). If you can do that then it's vulnerable to rust. If you can't do that then you're fine and it's not rusted. It's either leather or metal. In this case I'd have to say it's leather.

Not to my knowledge. For the books I have access to you can make studded leather using bone, darkleaf cloth, and ironwood.

Dark Archive

Kyshkumen wrote:
claudekennilol wrote:
It depends. Can you make your studded leather out of alternate metals? I've never seen anyone do that (at least for PFS). If you can do that then it's vulnerable to rust. If you can't do that then you're fine and it's not rusted. It's either leather or metal. In this case I'd have to say it's leather.
But does it not count as metal armor when it comes to druids?

I believe it counts as leather armor for druids. Or if it does, you can get ironwood studded leather and it no longer counts as metal.

Grand Lodge

Daniel Myhre wrote:
Kyshkumen wrote:
claudekennilol wrote:
It depends. Can you make your studded leather out of alternate metals? I've never seen anyone do that (at least for PFS). If you can do that then it's vulnerable to rust. If you can't do that then you're fine and it's not rusted. It's either leather or metal. In this case I'd have to say it's leather.
But does it not count as metal armor when it comes to druids?
I believe it counts as leather armor for druids. Or if it does, you can get ironwood studded leather and it no longer counts as metal.

Nope, it counts as illegal for Druids. From the PRD for Druids in the CRB:

"Druids are proficient with light and medium armor but are prohibited from wearing metal armor; thus, they may wear only padded, leather, or hide armor."

Studded Leather is from the CRB, and, unlike the longbow/composite longbow text, does not include any text saying that they are treated the same as each other.

Dark Archive

Then yeah, they could get it as ironwood studded leather, which is wood instead of metal. Thus be able o wear that.

Grand Lodge

Daniel Myhre wrote:
Then yeah, they could get it as ironwood studded leather, which is wood instead of metal. Thus be able o wear that.

By the time they could do that, it wouldn't really be worth it.

6th level spell, so 11th level caster.
11 days per casting, as it isn't permanent.

By that point, they could probably have a dragonhide breastplate or better, and magically enhanced, to boot.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
BigNorseWolf wrote:
I'd say no. Unless you're going to roll around on a rust monster you should be ok because you'll only lose a few studs here and there, not enough to affect the armor class. Minor armor repairs like that are already covered in your cost of living or what have you, you just rivet some back on there.

It that interpretation was valid almost any armor would suffer only minor damage from a rust monster.

Chain? You are only losing a few links here and there.
Scale? A few scales.
Full plate? Unless it hit the section protecting the breast area you are only losing a single vambrace or the part protecting the knee joint with a single hit.
Most armors aren't made by a single, solid piece.

Interpreting things in the character favor I could rule that a studded leather only get the broken condition when hit by a rust monster. It seem the best choice.


Quote:
It that interpretation was valid almost any armor would suffer only minor damage from a rust monster.

If rust can spread of its own accord along a plate, then it should be able to spread to TOUCHING links and touching plates. Doesn't necessarily immply that non-touching studs separated by leather would be a problem.

But I don't think they ever really detail the rust monster attack process other than something something antennae, do they? So I dunno, maybe it releases a little cloud of spores or something when it hits, that can spread a bit and nullify any advantage. Or maybe it's quite resistant.


Lorewalker wrote:


Bolding mine
According to the description, in Pathfinder, studded leather armor is not brigandine, but its own thing. It is normal leather armor that has many metal studs in it to deflect blows.
Normal leather armor without those studs is... well, just leather armor with small holes in it.

For those who do not know, brigandine armor is made of light leather(soft leather) that has plates stitched or riveted to it.

aka "coat of plates."

But studded leather is still, as noted, a semi-rigid form of armor reinforced by metal.

Quote:


The rigidity caused by the additional metal

obviously would be compromised by rust attacks and such.

Dark Archive

kinevon wrote:
Daniel Myhre wrote:
Then yeah, they could get it as ironwood studded leather, which is wood instead of metal. Thus be able o wear that.

By the time they could do that, it wouldn't really be worth it.

6th level spell, so 11th level caster.
11 days per casting, as it isn't permanent.

By that point, they could probably have a dragonhide breastplate or better, and magically enhanced, to boot.

Or you could, I don't know, buy it? Or for that matter buy a suit of ironwood agile breastplate for 550 gold, which is about half the cost of a dragonhide breastplate with a lower ACP for climb and jump checks. And the same (additional) cost to get enchanted. Plus without the additional 'cost' of having to find and kill a dragon :)

Dragonhide would only be superior if you're adding that specific energy resistance to the armor due to 25% lower cost.


Daniel Myhre wrote:
Or for that matter buy a suit of ironwood agile breastplate for 550 gold, which is about half the cost of a dragonhide breastplate with a lower ACP for climb and jump checks.

That would be great, if ironwood armor could be bought and didn't expire after a few days.

Dark Archive

But it can! This thread was initially for Pathfinder Society. Just spend 2 prestige and you've got yourself an ironwood breastplate. It's created by the ironwood spell, true. When buying it, one assumes the creator made the spell permanent. Or are you arguing that the Pathfinder Society has no 11th level casters with Ironwood and Permanency in their employ?


Ironwood isn't on the permanency list as far as I know. If it was, I'd expect it to cost more than 550gp in components.

Grand Lodge

Daniel Myhre wrote:
But it can! This thread was initially for Pathfinder Society. Just spend 2 prestige and you've got yourself an ironwood breastplate. It's created by the ironwood spell, true. When buying it, one assumes the creator made the spell permanent. Or are you arguing that the Pathfinder Society has no 11th level casters with Ironwood and Permanency in their employ?

I am sorry. Ironwood is not a legal special material in PFS. The only place it is referenced is in a spell, not in equipment.

As a spell, in PFS, since Permanent is not a legal spell for PFS, it can only be purchased through spellcasting services, so has a limited duration, basically for one scenario.

From the Guild Guide, pages 24-25:
Spells
The following spells found in the Core Rulebook are not legal for play and may never be used, found, purchased, or learned in any form by PCs playing Pathfinder Society Scenarios: awaken, permanency, and reincarnate.
All spells and effects end at the end of a scenario with the following exceptions:
• Spells and effects with permanent or instantaneous duration that heal damage, repair damage, or remove harmful conditions remain in effect at the end of the scenario.
• Afflictions and harmful conditions obtained during a scenario remain until healed and carry over from scenario to scenario (except in specific instances as noted on Page 22).
• A character may have one each of the following spells that carries overs from scenario to scenario: continual flame, masterwork transformation, secret chest, and secret page.

Special Materials in the CRB:
Adamantine
Darkwood
Dragonhide (not Always Allowed)
Iron, Cold
Mithral
Silver, Alchemical

Did a search in the PRD for Ironwood, mostly referenced in NPCs who cast it as part of their tactics, and how it affects a couple of special materials, whipwood and greenwood.

Spells in the CRB:
Ironwood

Spellcasting cost:
6th level spell, 11th level caster: 660 gp plus the cost of the Focus, the wood to be transformed.


Yeah, basically, ironwood isn't a material per se, but a spell you cast on wood. So you could make a wooden breastplate, then cast ironwood on *that*. Not sure how much making that would cost. (Also wonder what happens when you cast Ironwood on a greatclub, or if it helps that weapon not be so terrible.)

Scarab Sages

Qaianna wrote:
(Also wonder what happens when you cast Ironwood on a greatclub, or if it helps that weapon not be so terrible.)

Nothing really. A metal greatclub is still a greatclub. It will have better hardness.


Imbicatus wrote:
Studded Leather is not leather armor with studs. Leather armor is boiled leather that is thickened and hardened. Studded leather is a soft thin layer of leather with lots of small plates riveted to it. Almost all of the protection for studded leather is from the plates. It's vulnerable to heat metal and the like. I'd also rule that the exposed rivets (the "studs") give a path to the metal plates, and can be rusted via a rust monster or rusting grasp spell.

"Similar to leather armor, this suit is reinforced with small metal studs."


alexd1976 wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
Studded Leather is not leather armor with studs. Leather armor is boiled leather that is thickened and hardened. Studded leather is a soft thin layer of leather with lots of small plates riveted to it. Almost all of the protection for studded leather is from the plates. It's vulnerable to heat metal and the like. I'd also rule that the exposed rivets (the "studs") give a path to the metal plates, and can be rusted via a rust monster or rusting grasp spell.
"Similar to leather armor, this suit is reinforced with small metal studs."

Metal components, plus barred to druids. Clankety clank. Enjoy the rusting.


Qaianna wrote:
alexd1976 wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
Studded Leather is not leather armor with studs. Leather armor is boiled leather that is thickened and hardened. Studded leather is a soft thin layer of leather with lots of small plates riveted to it. Almost all of the protection for studded leather is from the plates. It's vulnerable to heat metal and the like. I'd also rule that the exposed rivets (the "studs") give a path to the metal plates, and can be rusted via a rust monster or rusting grasp spell.
"Similar to leather armor, this suit is reinforced with small metal studs."
Metal components, plus barred to druids. Clankety clank. Enjoy the rusting.

I would likely say the AC drops from 3 to 2...


alexd1976 wrote:
Qaianna wrote:
alexd1976 wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
Studded Leather is not leather armor with studs. Leather armor is boiled leather that is thickened and hardened. Studded leather is a soft thin layer of leather with lots of small plates riveted to it. Almost all of the protection for studded leather is from the plates. It's vulnerable to heat metal and the like. I'd also rule that the exposed rivets (the "studs") give a path to the metal plates, and can be rusted via a rust monster or rusting grasp spell.
"Similar to leather armor, this suit is reinforced with small metal studs."
Metal components, plus barred to druids. Clankety clank. Enjoy the rusting.
I would likely say the AC drops from 3 to 2...

Except the studs are ... either glued on (which I don't think actually works) or riveted through. Rusted-out studs would leave ... holes. Your leather armour is now perforated leather armour.

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