Hello.
One of my players intends to use the Pathfinder Players Companion Cohorts & Companions to get a Winter Wolf from the Leadership feat.
My question is, how much gold does this cohort start out with?
I know the effective cohort level is 9th when figuring out how soon a PC can select it with the Leadership feat. However, I still don't know how much moolah it starts out with.
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Well, generally speaking when using the leadership feat to get a cohort, it is considered a npc, no matter if the cohort is one of the regular pathfinder races with normal class lvls or a magical beast that will gain class lvls via leadership rules.
According to the character advancement table found in the core rule book, a regular 9th lvl npc will have a starting wealth of 7,800gp(regular gear, magic items, consumables, etc are included in this.)
But this would only apply to a regular npc and not a magical beast cohort which could be argued would have no concept of money much less of a way of purchasing it. On the other hand one could argue this would be the allowance a PC with leadership gets for outfitting the cohort with gear and such. Considering it could be argued either way makes it completely up to the GM's discretion.
Well, generally speaking when using the leadership feat get a cohort, it is considered a npc, no matter if the cohort is one of the regular pathfinder races with normal class lvls or a magical beast that will gain class lvls via leadership rules.
According to the character advancement table found in the core rule book, a regular 9th lvl npc will have a starting wealth of 7,800gp(regular gear, magic items, consumables, etc are included in this.)
But this would only apply to a regular npc and not a magical beast cohort which could be argued would have no concept of money much less of a way of purchasing it. On the other hand one could argue this would be the allowance a PC with leadership gets for outfitting the cohort with gear and such. Considering it could be argued either way makes it completely up to the GM's discretion.
Nailed it.
But this would only apply to a regular npc and not a magical beast cohort which could be argued would have no concept of money much less of a way of purchasing it. On the other hand one could argue this would be the allowance a PC with leadership gets for outfitting the cohort with gear and such. Considering it could be argued either way makes it completely up to the GM's discretion.
The creature has an Intelligence of 9. That's basically human level. Moreover, it gets a standard amount of treasure according to the Bestiary. Therefore, it knows the value of gold.
Are you sure about that amount, or is it 36,000gp according to 9th level characters?
Also, how much would a mithral breastplate for it cost?
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But this would only apply to a regular npc and not a magical beast cohort which could be argued would have no concept of money much less of a way of purchasing it. On the other hand one could argue this would be the allowance a PC with leadership gets for outfitting the cohort with gear and such. Considering it could be argued either way makes it completely up to the GM's discretion.The creature has an Intelligence of 9. That's basically human level. Moreover, it gets a standard amount of treasure according to the Bestiary. Therefore, it knows the value of gold.
Are you sure about that amount, or is it 36,000gp according to 9th level characters?
NPC gold.
Also, how much would a mithral breastplate for it cost?
It's for a Shoanti human Fighter PC. I figure he raised it from a puppy. I'm going to waive the requirement that the alignment not be opposed to his (Winter Wolves start out as NE, and the PC will likely be Good aligned). However I will still deduct 1 from his Leadership score as the book says for cohorts whose alignment differs from the PC's.
I repeat, how much would a mithral breastplate for it cost? My guess is 4800gp, with a weight of 30lbs and an armor check penalty of 1.
I don't see why it would be ignorant of money or tools. It has a sapient intellect, speaks common, and the ecology says "Winter wolves will often ally themselves with frost giants, hill giants, and other large humanoids, serving entire tribes of giants as both scouts and guards." so they routinely hang out in civilization.
Mithril barding seems a bit of a stretch though for something you'd find in a bestial wolf who usually lives in hill giant communities... something more thematically appropriate things would be refreshing. But hey whatever, backstory it up, yadda yadda, sure.
Bestiary under the magical beast sub-type, which is what a Whitle Wolf is classified as:
Magical Beasts are similar to animals but can have Intelligence scores higher than 2 (in which case the creature knows at least one language, but can’t necessarily speak). Magical Beasts usually have supernatural or extraordinary abilities, but are sometimes merely bizarre in appearance or habits.
Magical Beasts are not regular animals, but just because it has 'sapient intelligence doesn't mean it can do everything a humanoid type creature can. Again all this is left up to GM fiat. As for how much a certain type of barding made out of mithral costs, that can be very cheap or very expensive depending how your gm views the rules and cost modifiers(there are quite a few threads already that have discussed this.)
Large non-humanoid armor costs x4 regular and weighs x2 regular.
200gp + 4,000gp medium mithral armor (includes masterwork) = 4,200
multiplied by 4 = 16,800 gpI think. I guess I'm not 100% sure if the x4 is to the special mats, but that would be pretty silly if not, since the large armor is using up, mathematically, 4x more mithral... (2x2x2 volume then divided by two since it doesn't need to be twice as thick). So it should logically definitely multiply the mithral cost by 4 too. But I don't know RAW on that.
This is where the fun starts. Again this has been discussed on several boards already, go look them up. There has not been an official ruling on this, just people's interpretation of the rules which can vary from GM to player alike.
This is where the fun starts. Again this has been discussed on several boards already, go look them up. There has not been an official ruling on this, just people's interpretation of the rules which can vary from GM to player alike.Large non-humanoid armor costs x4 regular and weighs x2 regular.
200gp + 4,000gp medium mithral armor (includes masterwork) = 4,200
multiplied by 4 = 16,800 gpI think. I guess I'm not 100% sure if the x4 is to the special mats, but that would be pretty silly if not, since the large armor is using up, mathematically, 4x more mithral... (2x2x2 volume then divided by two since it doesn't need to be twice as thick). So it should logically definitely multiply the mithral cost by 4 too. But I don't know RAW on that.
I would say you multiply the special material cost by the WEIGHT multiplier...
So four times normal cost of breastplate, plus double Mithral cost... 8800gp
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Cohorts effectively come to the party with NPC wealth by level as appropriate for their level/CR.
After that, the PC must share their wealth with their cohort. Do not split the party wealth to include the cohort, it gets wealth from its PC patron. If the PC does not want to share the wealth...well that is his burden to bear not the party's.
Cohorts effectively come to the party with NPC wealth by level as appropriate for their level/CR.
After that, the PC must share their wealth with their cohort. Do not split the party wealth to include the cohort, it gets wealth from its PC patron. If the PC does not want to share the wealth...well that is his burden to bear not the party's.
Indeed! I hate when people try to tell me that their feat choice somehow results in me getting less treasure...
yeah, I don't think so bub.
This is where the fun starts. Again this has been discussed on several boards already, go look them up. There has not been an official ruling on this, just people's interpretation of the rules which can vary from GM to player alike.Large non-humanoid armor costs x4 regular and weighs x2 regular.
200gp + 4,000gp medium mithral armor (includes masterwork) = 4,200
multiplied by 4 = 16,800 gpI think. I guess I'm not 100% sure if the x4 is to the special mats, but that would be pretty silly if not, since the large armor is using up, mathematically, 4x more mithral... (2x2x2 volume then divided by two since it doesn't need to be twice as thick). So it should logically definitely multiply the mithral cost by 4 too. But I don't know RAW on that.
I would say you multiply the special material cost by the WEIGHT multiplier...
So four times normal cost of breastplate, plus double Mithral cost... 8800gp
Can't really say either way. Usually when you are going by the weight for the mithral price cost, that applies to all other items expect shields and armor, which have a set mithral cost. Barding could still be considered a type of armor. Again this has been discussed heavily on other past threads and there have been no official rulings or FAQS to clarify who is right on the matter. This leaves it in the GM's hands to decide.
Can't really say either way. Usually when you are going by the weight for the mithral price cost, that applies to all other items expect shields and armor, which have a set mithral cost. Barding could still be considered a type of armor. Again this has been discussed heavily on other past threads and there have been no official rulings or FAQS to clarify who is right on the matter. This leaves it in the GM's hands to decide.This is where the fun starts. Again this has been discussed on several boards already, go look them up. There has not been an official ruling on this, just people's interpretation of the rules which can vary from GM to player alike.Large non-humanoid armor costs x4 regular and weighs x2 regular.
200gp + 4,000gp medium mithral armor (includes masterwork) = 4,200
multiplied by 4 = 16,800 gpI think. I guess I'm not 100% sure if the x4 is to the special mats, but that would be pretty silly if not, since the large armor is using up, mathematically, 4x more mithral... (2x2x2 volume then divided by two since it doesn't need to be twice as thick). So it should logically definitely multiply the mithral cost by 4 too. But I don't know RAW on that.
I would say you multiply the special material cost by the WEIGHT multiplier...
So four times normal cost of breastplate, plus double Mithral cost... 8800gp
My reasoning is that a large piece of armor weighs twice as much, so it therefor has twice as much material... :D
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Anyone saying that a Winter Wolf wouldn't know the concept for tools or money should read about the Howlings district in Whitethrone, Irrisen. The Winter Wolves there (thanks to Baba Yaga) can walk around in human form, wear clothes, buy things from merchants, and generally engage in human behavior. Except with the occasional killing and eating of someone who pisses them off because human form or not they are still Winter Wolves.
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Winter wolves are as intelligent as Orcs.
If people want to limit what the wolves understand/will own, please apply that logic to Orcs equally.
Thank you, and goodnight.
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Anyone saying that a Winter Wolf wouldn't know the concept for tools or money should read about the Howlings district in Whitethrone, Irrisen. The Winter Wolves there (thanks to Baba Yaga) can walk around in human form, wear clothes, buy things from merchants, and generally engage in human behavior. Except with the occasional killing and eating of someone who pisses them off because human form or not they are still Winter Wolves.
I'll recant the part about the concept for not understanding tools and money, but unless the winter wolf has some kind of outside assistance(Baba Yaga for example who is a spell caster,) winter wolves in their true form do not have a way earning nor spending money by normal means nor can they use humanoid tools because their physical form prevents this. Although I find this point moot or redundant because it can easily be overcome with gm fiat.
They don't have thumbs, but they are powerful enough to rob people, extort small towns, adventure...
They are entitled to their WBL, I wouldn't try to take it away from them... they are scary. ;)
I never said that they should be robbed of their WBL, but a magical beast cohort is not the same as a regular npc with normal class lvls. The rules are not clear on this. The rules are only clear for regular npcs who can be any race or class. Magical beasts do not fit under this, they are considered monster cohorts which is totally different from regular npcs. They do get to get class lvls later on thanks to leadership, but this after not before. This why it is up to the GM who creates the backstory for the npc that is going to be recruited via leadership. If the GM wants the magical beast cohort to have a starting WBL then that is the GM's personal decision, not what the rules say. So please do not try to argue that the rules say a monstrous companion cohort gets a starting WBL dependent on the lvl it is recruited.
I never said that they should be robbed of their WBL, but a magical beast cohort is not the same as a regular npc with normal class lvls. The rules are not clear on this. The rules are only clear for regular npcs who can be any race or class. Magical beasts do not fit under this, they are considered monstrous companion cohorts which is totally different from regular npcs. They do get to get class lvls later on thanks to leadership, but this after not before. This why it is up to the GM who creates the backstory for the npc that is going to be recruited via leadership. If the GM wants the magical beast cohort to have a starting WBL then that is the GM's personal decision, not what the rules say. So please do not try to argue that the rules say a monstrous companion cohort gets a starting WBL dependent on the lvl it is recruited.
Um, unless the rules say otherwise, I give NPCs their WBL.
Nothing about WBL or the Leadership feat states that class levels are required to have money...
Are you able to cite something that supports your viewpoint? Have I missed something?
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Regular NPC cohorts recruited via leadership feat
Cohort Level: You can attract a cohort of up to this level. Regardless of your Leadership score, you can only recruit a cohort who is two or more levels lower than yourself. The cohort should be equipped with gear appropriate for its level (see Creating NPCs). A cohort can be of any race or class. The cohort's alignment may not be opposed to your alignment on either the law/chaos or good/evil axis, and you take a –1 penalty to your Leadership score if you recruit a cohort of an alignment different from your own.
A cohort does not count as a party member when determining the party's XP. Instead, divide the cohort's level by your level. Multiply this result by the total XP awarded to you, then add that number of experience points to the cohort's total.
If a cohort gains enough XP to bring it to a level one lower than your level, the cohort does not gain the new level—its new XP total is 1 less than the amount needed to attain the next level.
Special Cohorts & Companions(magical beast cohorts fit in here)
Some characters garner the aid of particularly powerful, intelligent, or magical creatures to serve them. A character must have the Leadership feat in order to enlist such a creature.
The following examples are some of the most common monstrous cohorts and where the stats for each can be found, as well as the creature's effective cohort level for the purpose of determining a character's requisite Leadership score and character level in order to enlist the aid of the creature.
Just for the record, if I was a GM I would allow the magical beast cohort to have a regular npc WBL because, one it isn't very much to begin with, not to mention the PC with leadership is gonna find his finances stretched a little too much(as pointed out by Claxon in an earlier post) trying to outfit both himself and his cohort.
I would look at it this way:
When you encounter a CR 9 NPC, does he have wealth? Yes. Does he use it as part of the encounter? Yes (he wears armor, swings a sword, wears a magical ring, etc.). This means the wealth is an expected part of the challenge of fighting this NPC.
In other words, if you have the NPC use the items in his "treasure hoard" then you are doing what is expected for the NPC's CR.
When you encounter a CR 9 wolf, does it have wealth? Maybe, but we'll assume yes for this example. Does it use it as part of the encounter? No. This means the wealth is NOT an expected part of the challenge of fighting this NPC.
In other words, if you have the wolf use the items in its "treasure hoard" you are INCREASING the difficulty of this encounter and should probably increase the CR.
Applying that logic to cohorts should work the same way:
Get an NPC, he comes with gear because it's part of his CR. Get an animal, even one with INT 9, it comes with no gear because gear is not part of the animal's CR - if you get an animal WITH gear then that should raise its CR.
So I would say no gear (wealth) for this winter wolf.
I would look at it this way:
When you encounter a CR 9 NPC, does he have wealth? Yes. Does he use it as part of the encounter? Yes (he wears armor, swings a sword, wears a magical ring, etc.). This means the wealth is an expected part of the challenge of fighting this NPC.
In other words, if you have the NPC use the items in his "treasure hoard" then you are doing what is expected for the NPC's CR.
When you encounter a CR 9 wolf, does it have wealth? Maybe, but we'll assume yes for this example. Does it use it as part of the encounter? No. This means the wealth is NOT an expected part of the challenge of fighting this NPC.
In other words, if you have the wolf use the items in its "treasure hoard" you are INCREASING the difficulty of this encounter and should probably increase the CR.
Applying that logic to cohorts should work the same way:
Get an NPC, he comes with gear because it's part of his CR. Get an animal, even one with INT 9, it comes with no gear because gear is not part of the animal's CR - if you get an animal WITH gear then that should raise its CR.
So I would say no gear (wealth) for this winter wolf.
Logical.
I understand your point...
Is there anything mechanical/crunchy addressing this?
I would look at it this way:
When you encounter a CR 9 NPC, does he have wealth? Yes. Does he use it as part of the encounter? Yes (he wears armor, swings a sword, wears a magical ring, etc.). This means the wealth is an expected part of the challenge of fighting this NPC.
In other words, if you have the NPC use the items in his "treasure hoard" then you are doing what is expected for the NPC's CR.
When you encounter a CR 9 wolf, does it have wealth? Maybe, but we'll assume yes for this example. Does it use it as part of the encounter? No. This means the wealth is NOT an expected part of the challenge of fighting this NPC.
In other words, if you have the wolf use the items in its "treasure hoard" you are INCREASING the difficulty of this encounter and should probably increase the CR.
Applying that logic to cohorts should work the same way:
Get an NPC, he comes with gear because it's part of his CR. Get an animal, even one with INT 9, it comes with no gear because gear is not part of the animal's CR - if you get an animal WITH gear then that should raise its CR.
So I would say no gear (wealth) for this winter wolf.
Good point, having gear does raise a monsters CR.
I would look at it this way:
When you encounter a CR 9 NPC, does he have wealth? Yes. Does he use it as part of the encounter? Yes (he wears armor, swings a sword, wears a magical ring, etc.). This means the wealth is an expected part of the challenge of fighting this NPC.
In other words, if you have the NPC use the items in his "treasure hoard" then you are doing what is expected for the NPC's CR.
When you encounter a CR 9 wolf, does it have wealth? Maybe, but we'll assume yes for this example. Does it use it as part of the encounter? No. This means the wealth is NOT an expected part of the challenge of fighting this NPC.
In other words, if you have the wolf use the items in its "treasure hoard" you are INCREASING the difficulty of this encounter and should probably increase the CR.
Applying that logic to cohorts should work the same way:
Get an NPC, he comes with gear because it's part of his CR. Get an animal, even one with INT 9, it comes with no gear because gear is not part of the animal's CR - if you get an animal WITH gear then that should raise its CR.
So I would say no gear (wealth) for this winter wolf.
Logical.
I understand your point...
Is there anything mechanical/crunchy addressing this?
Not a bit. I'm just trying to consider the balance.
If you give a PC a winter wolf cohort, that cohort can have a certain about of effectiveness in battle. If you give him a cohort with a few magic items (magic fang, protection, natural armor, resistances) you have made that winter wolf more powerful and more dangerous in combat, increasing its effectiveness.
Doing so might be unbalancing.
The leadership feat is already ridiculously OP (at least as it seems to be used by most people I've seen posting here). Adding extra effectiveness to the cohorts just makes that worse.
I usually try to NOT throw balance out the window.
Everything I posted here is just my take on the balance issue.
Counterpoint to the above:
Is a couple thousand gold at this level gonna even matter?
Counterpoint to the above:
Is a couple thousand gold at this level gonna even matter?
It's a bit more than a couple thousand, but the actual amount is irrelevant - that's a discussion of scale.
You first either decide if you're going to make a ruling that non-NPC cohorts can have wealth that MIGHT unbalance their CR.
Pathfinder is a numbers game. Asking if it will matter if you spend a few thousand gold to apply a +1 bonus to an animal's attack, damage, and AC is pretty much the same thing as asking if it will matter if you let the party's fighter have those same bonuses, or let the party's wizard get a +1 to his CL and save DCs.
+1 bonuses are not earth-shaking, but they do matter.
Excuse me, campers.
So far, this NPC has about 7800gp at most. I used this money to buy a +1 mithral breastplate and an Amulet of Natural Armor +1. I figured neither would really break the game, as all they do is collectively grant 8 points of AC.
This extends the life of the NPC in question, as it started out with only a 17 AC. That's not much when you consider that (as near as I can figure) the PC will have to be 11th level at least to have a cohort that's considered to be 9th level.
Now, to put this into context, the party Wizard is taking Craft Magic Arms & Armor and Craft Wondrous Item at 5th level, and at 7th the Wizard will be getting a familiar that will halve his crafting times via the Valet archetype. He will also be able to craft items whilst adventuring because of the Ring of Sustenance reducing his need for sleep to 2 hours a day.
This means the Fighter PC might actually have enough wealth total to equip both himself and upgrade the AC of his Winter Wolf Worg somewhat.
This is critical since the campaign is Carrion Crown, which means it's pretty lethal. So keeping his fuzzy buddy alive will be a bit of a challenge.
Unless they discuss NOT getting gear in the book the OP referenced, I think the level 7 equivalent they use ASSUMES gear.
I mean seriously, a level 7 FIGHTER could kill this thing.
My level 3 Hunter, who adventures in a DRESS has the same AC as a naked Winter Wolf.
This thing NEEDS gear to be equal to a level 7 character.
What if he took a Wizard instead? That cohort would have fourth level spells.
Winter Wolf is CR 5. It deserves it's tiny amount of WBL.
According to Cohorts & Companions, Winter Wolf is equivalent to a 9th level standard cohort. That means the PC could have had a 9th level humanoid with PC class levels instead, but didn't.
Excuse me, campers.
So far, this NPC has about 7800gp at most. I used this money to buy a +1 mithral breastplate and an Amulet of Natural Armor +1. I figured neither would really break the game, as all they do is collectively grant 8 points of AC.
This extends the life of the NPC in question, as it started out with only a 17 AC. That's not much when you consider that (as near as I can figure) the PC will have to be 11th level at least to have a cohort that's considered to be 9th level.
Now, to put this into context, the party Wizard is taking Craft Magic Arms & Armor and Craft Wondrous Item at 5th level, and at 7th the Wizard will be getting a familiar that will halve his crafting times via the Valet archetype. He will also be able to craft items whilst adventuring because of the Ring of Sustenance reducing his need for sleep to 2 hours a day.
This means the Fighter PC might actually have enough wealth total to equip both himself and upgrade the AC of his Winter Wolf Worg somewhat.
This is critical since the campaign is Carrion Crown, which means it's pretty lethal. So keeping his fuzzy buddy alive will be a bit of a challenge.
All I can say is be sure to look up the crafting rules, unless you are gonna hand wave alot of stuff. Crafting items takes alot of time, whether you are using downtime or doing it while the adventure is actually progressing. The more expensive the magic item is the longer it takes to make as in days going into months. And I think you are only allowed so many hours to craft a day, so no saying he use all day to craft the item with only two hours of sleep. And do forget the checks he has to make while crafting it, always a chance for failure.
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Excuse me, campers.
So far, this NPC has about 7800gp at most. I used this money to buy a +1 mithral breastplate and an Amulet of Natural Armor +1. I figured neither would really break the game, as all they do is collectively grant 8 points of AC.
+1 mithril breastplate for a large winter wolf is more than that. A large humanoid sized mithril breastplate is 10,400, so a non-humanoid is more (x4 cost multiplier instead of x2). NPC wealth by level is not a lump sum you can craft things for them with
+1 mithril breastplate for a large winter wolf is more than that. A large humanoid sized mithril breastplate is 10,400, so a non-humanoid is more (x4 cost multiplier instead of x2).Excuse me, campers.
So far, this NPC has about 7800gp at most. I used this money to buy a +1 mithral breastplate and an Amulet of Natural Armor +1. I figured neither would really break the game, as all they do is collectively grant 8 points of AC.
That's a matter of opinion, see above in this very thread. I ruled that the base cost of a breastplate is 200gp, multiplied by 4 is 800gp. The medium armor modifier for mithral is 4000gp. Thus the total is 4800gp for a mithral breastplate that fits a Large quadruped.
According to Cohorts & Companions, Winter Wolf is equivalent to a 9th level standard cohort. That means the PC could have had a 9th level humanoid with PC class levels instead, but didn't.
Whoops, I read that as level 9 character, and the Winter Wolf counting as level 7.
It counts as a level 9 character?
That only reinforces my earlier point.
A wizard can teleport at that level.
Give the Wolf it's gear.
That's a matter of opinion, see above in this very thread. I ruled that the base cost of a breastplate is 200gp, multiplied by 4 is 800gp. The medium armor modifier for mithral is 4000gp. Thus the total is 4800gp for a mithral breastplate that fits a Large quadruped.+1 mithril breastplate for a large winter wolf is more than that. A large humanoid sized mithril breastplate is 10,400, so a non-humanoid is more (x4 cost multiplier instead of x2).Excuse me, campers.
So far, this NPC has about 7800gp at most. I used this money to buy a +1 mithral breastplate and an Amulet of Natural Armor +1. I figured neither would really break the game, as all they do is collectively grant 8 points of AC.
If the breastplate weighs twice as much, that's because it uses twice as much material... twice as much Mithral.
I would multiply the Mithral cost by 2. Not my game though...
All I can say is be sure to look up the crafting rules, unless you are gonna hand wave alot of stuff. Crafting items takes alot of time, whether you are using downtime or doing it while the adventure is actually progressing. The more expensive the magic item is the longer it takes to make as in days going into months. And I think you are only allowed so many hours to craft a day, so no saying he use all day to craft the item with only two hours of sleep. And do forget the checks he has to make while crafting it, always a chance for failure.Excuse me, campers.
Now, to put this into context, the party Wizard is taking Craft Magic Arms & Armor and Craft Wondrous Item at 5th level, and at 7th the Wizard will be getting a familiar that will halve his crafting times via the Valet archetype. He will also be able to craft items whilst adventuring because of the Ring of Sustenance reducing his need for sleep to 2 hours a day.
You can only craft for 8 hours a day. The party rests for 10 hours a day, taking turns at watch, with the exception of the Wizard. Since Wizard rests for only 2 hours a day, he can spend his downtime crafting for 8 hours, and still get to adventure with the rest of the party. Simple math.
Now, since the Wizard will be getting an Improved Familiar (a pseudodragon) with the Valet archetype, he will be able to craft magic items at double the normal rate. That means 2 days worth of crafting in a single day, and STILL be able to adventure with the other PC's.
If the breastplate weighs twice as much, that's because it uses twice as much material... twice as much Mithral.
I would multiply the Mithral cost by 2. Not my game though...
So, you would multiply the 4200gp standard cost for a mithral breastplate by 2, resulting in a 8400gp cost total? That seems a bit much, don't you think, to penalize the player for taking a nonstandard NPC via Leadership?
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You can only craft for 8 hours a day. The party rests for 10 hours a day, taking turns at watch, with the exception of the Wizard. Since Wizard rests for only 2 hours a day, he can spend his downtime crafting for 8 hours, and still get to adventure with the rest of the party. Simple math.
Now, since the Wizard will be getting an Improved Familiar (a pseudodragon) with the Valet archetype, he will be able to craft magic items at double the normal rate. That means 2 days worth of crafting in a single day, and STILL be able to adventure with the other PC's.
You still need 8 hours of rest to get your spells back. And you can't cast spells or use skills during that time. You can't use the extra time you gain from the ring to craft.
Rest: To prepare his daily spells, a wizard must first sleep for 8 hours. The wizard does not have to slumber for every minute of the time, but he must refrain from movement, combat, spellcasting, skill use, conversation, or any other fairly demanding physical or mental task during the rest period. If his rest is interrupted, each interruption adds 1 hour to the total amount of time he has to rest in order to clear his mind, and he must have at least 1 hour of uninterrupted rest immediately prior to preparing his spells. If the character does not need to sleep for some reason, he still must have 8 hours of restful calm before preparing any spells.
Even if you could use that time, your efforts are still halved, as crafting while adventuring only nets you half the actual time spent crafting.
Now, since the Wizard will be getting an Improved Familiar (a pseudodragon) with the Valet archetype, he will be able to craft magic items at double the normal rate. That means 2 days worth of crafting in a single day, and STILL be able to adventure with the other PC's.
Actually, you only get half the benefit while -
Even if you could use that time, your efforts are still halved, as crafting while adventuring only nets you half the actual time spent crafting.
Daggum ninjas. :/
That ruling would render the Crafting feats totally useless during your standard AP, since putting the PC's on a clock is the thing in many of them.
Sorry, not going to squash the player's dreams of making his own gear. The Rule of Fun countermands this obscure bit of rules.
That's fine! I mostly just wanted you to be aware, rather than telling you how you had to do it! :D
Unfortunately, Carrion Crown has the PC's on the clock for most of it. You don't even really get breaks in between adventures. Worse, you are far away from most actual large cities, so no buying gear either.
That ruling would render the Crafting feats totally useless during your standard AP, since putting the PC's on a clock is the thing in many of them.
Sorry, not going to squash the player's dreams of making his own gear so quickly. The Rule of Fun countermands this obscure bit of rules.
Invoking the rule of fun trump card. The ultimate way to end an argument or debate on the rules. Well your the GM you the one who decides what does and doesn't happen in the game. Just remember when you ask a question in the rules section of the message board of paizo, the answers you will get will be based on people's viewing of the rules, nothing more or less. They may not always be right, so always ask for the source and exact text they are referring to or quoting from.
And the AP is balanced to run on those assumptions. You can complete the AP without crafting or running home into town, assuming the party composition is balanced.Unfortunately, Carrion Crown has the PC's on the clock for most of it. You don't even really get breaks in between adventures. Worse, you are far away from most actual large cities, so no buying gear either.
I'm sorry, but I honestly doubt that level of care was written into the AP. I've run it several times already, so I know it well. If it was, the story would be more interconnected than it is.