Need help solving a PC mystery


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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deadcleric wrote:
I would understand 90% of the weird stuff with the trickster explanation but I don't understand why he wouldn't be able to use magical items

The full taboo section for the Trickster spirit:

Taboos: Choose one: you can't abide revealing your true identity, and you break this taboo when anyone pierces your disguise, even your own allies; you can never tell the truth; you can never pass up a more lucrative offer, even if it causes you to switch sides.

He may have ignored the "choose one" and instead has chosen two. Never reveal true identity and never tell the truth.

Maybe he's lying.


Maybe this is a bit meta but:
Why would people adventure with a guy who takes all the loot and threatens to kill them all the time?

"We no longer care what your name is or why you can't accept heals. We're leaving you at the next town. If you come after us, know we no longer consider you an ally."


Sounds like a prime time for that character to wake up with a serious case of dead. "Immune to magic" generally only applies to spells that permit SR, so perhaps a timely relearning of minor creation is in order, if you're of sufficient level to learn the spell.

A block of dense wood weighs at least 50 pounds per cubic foot of volume. With access to levitate, floating a block of such wood as large as you are able to cast is pretty easy to move into dropping position. At 8th level, that's a 400 pound hunk of nice oak or maple - drop it from at least 150' for maximum potential damage. As a ranged touch attack against a coup de grace - qualified target, good chance the bastard dies, especially when the attack roll is ensured its success via true strike.

If you have access to major creation, stone is on the table, much much heavier (matching your levitation capacity per CL) and thus substantially more lethal.

Setting aside coup-de-grace attempts by dropping logs or boulders on faces, the character is the most blatantly "hostile" PC I've seen in a very long time.

I'd bet on aasimar trickster medium with scion of humanity or a maxx'd out Disguise skill, added points for a hat of disguise. "Neutral" seems to be in use to thinly disguise his actions.


While I could just announce he's a trickster I still don't know how we would even be able to determine that, what knowledge would that even fall under?


deadcleric wrote:
While I could just announce he's a trickster I still don't know how we would even be able to determine that, what knowledge would that even fall under?

Easy - does he perform a seance? He has to do this daily as a Medium.


deadcleric wrote:
A few friends recently started a new campaign and they asked if I wanted to join in.

Which ones are actually friends? In particular, is the rogue's player a personal friend of yours, and is the GM?


Kryzbyn wrote:

Maybe this is a bit meta but:

Why would people adventure with a guy who takes all the loot and threatens to kill them all the time?

"We no longer care what your name is or why you can't accept heals. We're leaving you at the next town. If you come after us, know we no longer consider you an ally."

The campaign is about stopping a cult from unleashing a plague, every time the party gets someplace *bam* most npcs might as well have a clock ticking down until they're dead. It's a situation in which a less than personable character gets by since everyone is constantly in danger


Here's another thing I came across, that would explain why the player and the GM are so invested in this. link

It's a stretch, but

Accursed wrote:

Accursed (Story)

Your curse weighs down your soul like a millstone around your neck.

Prerequisite: You must carry a curse that can be lifted only by a quest or similar great undertaking, or have the Cursed Birth background.

Benefit: You gain spell resistance equal to 5 + your character level, as the curse interferes with all magic. Unlike most spell resistance, it can't voluntarily be lowered, though your own spells and magic items still automatically affect you.

Goal: Your curse is lifted or you are able to purge the corruption of your fiendish blood (the circumstances of either vary widely based on the nature of the curse, and are up to the GM).

Completion Benefit: You lose the spell resistance described above. You gain spell resistance equal to 11 + your character level, but only against harmful enchantment, necromancy, and transmutation spells and spell-like abilities your aura resists further attempts to curse you. Harmless spells automatically bypass this spell resistance whether you desire it or not. This spell resistance can be voluntarily lowered.

If the GM is rolling the SR check in secret AND if they are misunderstanding the feat, it could explain why they care so much about it.


Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
deadcleric wrote:
A few friends recently started a new campaign and they asked if I wanted to join in.

Which ones are actually friends? In particular, is the rogue's player a personal friend of yours, and is the GM?

Everyone is mutual friends, the GM's best friend is the fighter, room mate is the wizard and he claims I'm like 3rd

Silver Crusade

I'd leave the group, I would not tolerate a person like that, a DM that permits a person like that, or other players who fail to call out a person like that. But to satisfy curiosity I'd first just outright call the player out. Not the character, the player. Accuse them outright of shenanigans that are outside the rules. If they don't come clean, murder their character with conjuration spells. Immune to magic or not, that should make no difference to conjuration.


deadcleric wrote:
Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
deadcleric wrote:
A few friends recently started a new campaign and they asked if I wanted to join in.

Which ones are actually friends? In particular, is the rogue's player a personal friend of yours, and is the GM?

Everyone is mutual friends, the GM's best friend is the fighter, room mate is the wizard and he claims I'm like 3rd

Okay, that could make it hard to angrily walk out of the group, at least while you have a live character. OTOH, it's been established that PvP is acceptable. So, as others have said, either ditch him or (preferably) kill him. And don't fight fair, and certainly don't go against him one at a time like idiot minions in a kung-fu movie.

Alternatively, announce "I took this problem to a group of experts and have it figured out. I know exactly what's up with you. But I'm not going to tell you because I know that will drive you crazy, and you deserve it." That ought to drive him crazy, but he deserves it. If he kills you for it, just don't bother to make another character. When the campaign ends, let us know what his secret actually was (we need closure).


Lol I'm planning on dropping a research/knowledge bomb on every on Saturday night.

If anything I'll just make a "PC mystery part 2" thread haha

Scarab Sages

does trickster medium grant full sneak attack? if not the how he's getting 80 goes back on the table.


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burkoJames wrote:
redpandamage wrote:

The OP doesn't say if he did it all with one attack, maybe he was TWF?

Edit: He does have TWF, if he doubles the crit that would be 75 with a couple bonuses he could get 80.

best I see with a dagger and Dex to damage and power attack he could get 11 damage at level 5. if he crit with both attacks and rolled max damage, that's 44 damage. sneak attack on both could get him an extra 36, if he rolls max on his 2 sets of 3d6. so he could just hit 80 damage. I call shenanigans for him to roll all that to the max after simultaneous crits.

Same here.

If we are wrong we really need to see his character sheet, you never know, he could have discovered something amazing for rogues.


burkoJames wrote:
does trickster medium grant full sneak attack? if not the how he's getting 80 goes back on the table.

I was so focused on one aspect of the mystery I've been ignoring the damage part.

At 5th level, a trickster medium doesn't get ANY sneak attack.

Hrmpf. Hrmpf, I say!


Edit: damn, my lacking familiarity is killing things. Maybe they've homebrewed some kind of Medium Virtual Multi-classing? So, a Rogue 5th (VMC Medium)?


Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
deadcleric wrote:
Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
deadcleric wrote:
A few friends recently started a new campaign and they asked if I wanted to join in.

Which ones are actually friends? In particular, is the rogue's player a personal friend of yours, and is the GM?

Everyone is mutual friends, the GM's best friend is the fighter, room mate is the wizard and he claims I'm like 3rd

Okay, that could make it hard to angrily walk out of the group, at least while you have a live character. OTOH, it's been established that PvP is acceptable. So, as others have said, either ditch him or (preferably) kill him. And don't fight fair, and certainly don't go against him one at a time like idiot minions in a kung-fu movie.

Alternatively, announce "I took this problem to a group of experts and have it figured out. I know exactly what's up with you. But I'm not going to tell you because I know that will drive you crazy, and you deserve it." That ought to drive him crazy, but he deserves it. If he kills you for it, just don't bother to make another character. When the campaign ends, let us know what his secret actually was (we need closure).

So the GM found my post -.- I think he's writing a response


Your best options are either ditch the game or murder him in his sleep. Have fun either way.


GM here, id like to clarify a few things.
1. Masterwork shortsword, not dagger. TWF, poison on the blades, crit, sneak, fullattack. i think it was like 73-75 damage. he normally does much less damage, but he is a tryhard and metagames.
2. they issues started when the druid cast an entangle spell that hit half the party. Wizard said if he took any damage due to the misplay he would kill the druid. The rogue said if the wiz attacked someone on the team he would be dead before his body hit the ground. Every week we spend about 15 min going over hypo scenarios to figure out who would win in a fight XD. They all get along great in real life, but the characters hate each other with a passion, and it gets a little disruptive at times.
3. OP and rogue are the brothers, so that explains some of the problems between them.

haremlord is really close with the accursed story
he is indeed human, but it has to do with the lore of pathfinder.
he put alot of time into making his backstory, and i felt that it fit in well with the story. Whereas some of the players opted to have no backstory at all. His character is definitely misunderstood, and the rest of the group makes little effort to talk to him and learn why he is the way he is, even though i give the group "downtime" each week where they can interact with each other.

he is affected by debuffs and the other players could hypothetically do damage to him, but i highly discourage pvp. OPs first character died because he was having trouble making it to the sessions due to the hours he worked. he wanted to reroll when his schedule cleared up so i allowed the other characters to "kill" his first character.

This is our first time playing pathfinder, we had only played starwars before.

TL:DR it isn't nearly as hostile an environment as the op makes it sound, but i won't deny the petty squabbles in the group annoy the hell out of me, as i spend 4-5 hours a week working on the adventure only to have them each try to stab each other in the back. in my opinion the entire group metagames far to much instead of just enjoying hanging out together.


Rich,

Thanks for chiming in on this thread, and welcome to the Paizo boards. Lilith may or may not come along with virtual cookies.

Perhaps some coaching of the 'accursed' is in order, as the impression given is that player (or several of your players) seem prone to overreaction.


[grumble]Crits don't multiply poison, sneak attack, or more than one hit at a time. TWF, poison nor SA have much bearing on crit damage.[/grumble]

Still want the whole story on the back and forth threats.
And this ability that "blocks all helpful magic, no rolls needed".

*Lowers pitchfork. A little bit.*


Yes they do tend to over react. My cousin is the Barb, and he fumbled an attack so i had him drop the weapon. He then quit the "dumb game" for being dumb and then rejoined 30 seconds later.

With the exception of OP, they are all fairly new to rollplaying. They still have the competitive boardgame attitude, but are slowly becoming less competitive.

I do understand how crit works XD, i was just trying to illustrate that it was 2 attacks in one turn, one of them was a crit, and he is adding poison damage on top. It wasnt just a single attack that did stupid damage.

Scarab Sages

Sangerine wrote:

[grumble]Crits don't multiply poison, sneak attack, or more than one hit at a time. TWF, poison nor SA have much bearing on crit damage.[/grumble]

Still want the whole story on the back and forth threats.
And this ability that "blocks all helpful magic, no rolls needed".

*Lowers pitchfork. A little bit.*

if he's using Sassone leaf residue, at level 5 a rouge would be dealing 1d6 (weapon) + 2d6 (poison) + 3d6 (SA). thats 10d6 in static damage if he hits with both weapons. 75 pushes it, and means nearly max damage, but I guess its possible?

Still calling shenanigas on Immune to allies spells. I can see has to save, or gets SR, but not flat unaffected.

Scarab Sages

burkoJames wrote:
Sangerine wrote:

[grumble]Crits don't multiply poison, sneak attack, or more than one hit at a time. TWF, poison nor SA have much bearing on crit damage.[/grumble]

Still want the whole story on the back and forth threats.
And this ability that "blocks all helpful magic, no rolls needed".

*Lowers pitchfork. A little bit.*

if he's using Sassone leaf residue, at level 5 a rouge would be dealing 1d6 (weapon) + 2d6 (poison) + 3d6 (SA). thats 10d6 in static damage if he hits with both weapons. 75 pushes it, and means nearly max damage, but I guess its possible?

Still calling shenanigas on Immune to allies spells. I can see has to save, or gets SR, but not flat unaffected.

Nevermind. I did the math, he averaged 5s on 13 d6? I call shenanigans.


RichFalcon wrote:
My cousin is the Barb, and he fumbled an attack so i had him drop the weapon.

How did he fumble an attack? Pathfinder doesn't have critical failures on attack rolls.


Sounds like a demon... bind him in his sleep maybe? Or a Qlippoth Lord... which would be really really really bad. Basically when divine magic affects him it theoretically infects him with the sins of said divine characters worshipers. If this is true, roll a cleric of Urgathoa, if you start casting spells on him in his sleep and he is suddenly very very very hungry and gluttonous I think you have an answer.


Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
RichFalcon wrote:
My cousin is the Barb, and he fumbled an attack so i had him drop the weapon.
How did he fumble an attack? Pathfinder doesn't have critical failures on attack rolls.

As far as I knew it was just an optional thing for pathfinder

VARIANT: CRITICAL MISSES (FUMBLES)

If you want to model a chance that in combat a character could fumble his weapon, then when a player rolls a 1 on his attack roll, have him make a DC10 Dexterity check. If he fails, his character fumbles. You neeed to decided what it means to fumble, but in general, that character should lose a turn of activity as he regains his balance, picks up a dropped weapon, clears his head, steadies himself, or whatever.

Fumbles are not appropiate to all games. They can add excitement or interest to combat, but they can also detract from the fun. They certainly add more randomness to combat. Add this variant rule only after careful consideration.


They have only tried to cast Buffs on him twice, and i never claimed he was immune. I really don't want to let people down, but its more of a story thing than an actual stat or ability he has. but he is not just blanket immune to buffs/heals.


Keep us posted on the unfolding high school drama club, both of you. Getting two perspectives is always enlightening.


deadcleric wrote:
Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
RichFalcon wrote:
My cousin is the Barb, and he fumbled an attack so i had him drop the weapon.
How did he fumble an attack? Pathfinder doesn't have critical failures on attack rolls.

As far as I knew it was just an optional thing for pathfinder

VARIANT: CRITICAL MISSES (FUMBLES)

If you want to model a chance that in combat a character could fumble his weapon, then when a player rolls a 1 on his attack roll, have him make a DC10 Dexterity check. If he fails, his character fumbles. You neeed to decided what it means to fumble, but in general, that character should lose a turn of activity as he regains his balance, picks up a dropped weapon, clears his head, steadies himself, or whatever.

Fumbles are not appropiate to all games. They can add excitement or interest to combat, but they can also detract from the fun. They certainly add more randomness to combat. Add this variant rule only after careful consideration.

yeah, it was something from "Star Wars Edge of the empire" that we all liked. he just liked it better when it happened to other people


RichFalcon wrote:
Yes they do tend to over react. My cousin is the Barb, and he fumbled an attack so i had him drop the weapon. He then quit the "dumb game" for being dumb and then rejoined 30 seconds later.

Since you're new to Pathfinder - I would strongly advise against adding a fumble houserule. It happens way too often and it generally ends up being a net drag - it's way more of a bummer when you lose your weapon than when the NPC mook loses his and a major NPC losing his weapon can just really take a cool, difficult, epic encounter and turn it into a mediocre one.

If you do REALLY think it adds something fun to the game, you should do it like critical hits where you have to confirm it. A straight 5% chance is way too often.


RichFalcon wrote:

... but i highly discourage pvp. OPs first character died because he was having trouble making it to the sessions due to the hours he worked. he wanted to reroll when his schedule cleared up so i allowed the other characters to "kill" his first character.

...i won't deny the petty squabbles in the group annoy the hell out of me, as i spend 4-5 hours a week working on the adventure only to have them each try to stab each other in the back.

Another bit of friendly GM advice - your actions having players kill off a PC because the its player couldn't consistently make it directly causes petty squabbles and back-stabbing. Doing that and then "highly discouraging" it in other situations is only making it worse because now you're playing favorites. Allowing players to have secret characters who are at odds with the rest of the characters is going to cause a lot of party strife.

Sometimes people have trouble making sessions. I'm adamantly against punishing players for this - people have lives and this is a game to have fun in. Going to the extreme of arbitrarily having his character killed off is just an amazingly hostile act.

To get it back on track -

Talk to the player of the character with the secret. Let him know that his character is being disruptive, that the hostility and the secret-keeping is causing a problem with group dynamics and you'd like to try to figure out a way to mitigate the disruption and still let him have a fun character. Ask his advice. Get him involved and invested in fixing the solution instead of just ban-hammering him.

No more PvP. Just flat out tell everyone - no theft, no killing, no attacking, no acting to hinder of the rest of the party.


RichFalcon wrote:
They have only tried to cast Buffs on him twice, and i never claimed he was immune. I really don't want to let people down, but its more of a story thing than an actual stat or ability he has. but he is not just blanket immune to buffs/heals.
Well, then you probably need to communicate a little better. Because the original post says:
deadcleric wrote:
1. the GM insists it's a thing that exists in pathfinder and isn't made up.

But "a story thing" reads a whole lot like "I made some @#$% up".

Two-weapon fighting, shortswords, poison, crit, sneak attack, full attack. 74 damage (lazy and divisible by 2). That's 37 damage each hit (assuming both were crits and double slice). So 2d6+3d6+2xStat+poison? Actually, how the @#$% does the poison factor in? The only poison I find that does HP damage (sassone leaf) has an onset time of one minute. I'll include it, but I don't think it should count. 5d6+2d12+2xStat. That's actually not bad assuming good rolls. And the crit is actually largely irrelevant, since it only adds 1d6+stat.

Of course, if we ignore poison (since I can only find one that does HP damage) then it's 5d6+2xStat. Possible, but unlikely. And if only one is a crit then we have 9d6+3xStat which would require a Stat of 7 or higher (assuming max rolls). Impossible without magic and with a pure rogue, to the best of my knowledge.


MeanMutton wrote:
RichFalcon wrote:

... but i highly discourage pvp. OPs first character died because he was having trouble making it to the sessions due to the hours he worked. he wanted to reroll when his schedule cleared up so i allowed the other characters to "kill" his first character.

...i won't deny the petty squabbles in the group annoy the hell out of me, as i spend 4-5 hours a week working on the adventure only to have them each try to stab each other in the back.

Another bit of friendly GM advice - your actions having players kill off a PC because the its player couldn't consistently make it directly causes petty squabbles and back-stabbing. Doing that and then "highly discouraging" it in other situations is only making it worse because now you're playing favorites. Allowing players to have secret characters who are at odds with the rest of the characters is going to cause a lot of party strife.

Sometimes people have trouble making sessions. I'm adamantly against punishing players for this - people have lives and this is a game to have fun in. Going to the extreme of arbitrarily having his character killed off is just an amazingly hostile act.

To get it back on track -

Talk to the player of the character with the secret. Let him know that his character is being disruptive, that the hostility and the secret-keeping is causing a problem with group dynamics and you'd like to try to figure out a way to mitigate the disruption and still let him have a fun character. Ask his advice. Get him involved and invested in fixing the solution instead of just ban-hammering him.

No more PvP. Just flat out tell everyone - no theft, no killing, no attacking, no acting to hinder of the rest of the party.

The original cleric dying wasn't even really an issue to me, but almost everything every does it just to backstab. The wizard is currently spec-ing just to just kill the rogue


CON damage poison from two injuries can inflict enough CON damage to do the equivalent of hp damage (reducing max and current hp simultaneously). At 5th level, however, such poisons are quite pricey...

Scarab Sages

Bob Bob Bob wrote:
RichFalcon wrote:
They have only tried to cast Buffs on him twice, and i never claimed he was immune. I really don't want to let people down, but its more of a story thing than an actual stat or ability he has. but he is not just blanket immune to buffs/heals.
Well, then you probably need to communicate a little better. Because the original post says:
deadcleric wrote:
1. the GM insists it's a thing that exists in pathfinder and isn't made up.

But "a story thing" reads a whole lot like "I made some @#$% up".

Two-weapon fighting, shortswords, poison, crit, sneak attack, full attack. 74 damage (lazy and divisible by 2). That's 37 damage each hit (assuming both were crits and double slice). So 2d6+3d6+2xStat+poison? Actually, how the @#$% does the poison factor in? The only poison I find that does HP damage (sassone leaf) has an onset time of one minute. I'll include it, but I don't think it should count. 5d6+2d12+2xStat. That's actually not bad assuming good rolls. And the crit is actually largely irrelevant, since it only adds 1d6+stat.

Of course, if we ignore poison (since I can only find one that does HP damage) then it's 5d6+2xStat. Possible, but unlikely. And if only one is a crit then we have 9d6+3xStat which would require a Stat of 7 or higher (assuming max rolls). Impossible without magic and with a pure rogue, to the best of my knowledge.

redo your math, before the crit, assuming no onset time, we have 12d6. plus one d6 for the city, and you have 13d6. averaging 5s gets you 75 damage. its certainly possible. it's also so unlikely I'm calling shenanigans. but possible.


deadcleric wrote:
The original cleric dying wasn't even really an issue to me, but almost everything every does it just to backstab. The wizard is currently spec-ing just to just kill the rogue

This doesn't sound like a fun game to me. Honestly, I'd just recommend grabbing an adventure path and starting a new campaign and going from there.


burkoJames wrote:
Bob Bob Bob wrote:
RichFalcon wrote:
They have only tried to cast Buffs on him twice, and i never claimed he was immune. I really don't want to let people down, but its more of a story thing than an actual stat or ability he has. but he is not just blanket immune to buffs/heals.
Well, then you probably need to communicate a little better. Because the original post says:
deadcleric wrote:
1. the GM insists it's a thing that exists in pathfinder and isn't made up.

But "a story thing" reads a whole lot like "I made some @#$% up".

Two-weapon fighting, shortswords, poison, crit, sneak attack, full attack. 74 damage (lazy and divisible by 2). That's 37 damage each hit (assuming both were crits and double slice). So 2d6+3d6+2xStat+poison? Actually, how the @#$% does the poison factor in? The only poison I find that does HP damage (sassone leaf) has an onset time of one minute. I'll include it, but I don't think it should count. 5d6+2d12+2xStat. That's actually not bad assuming good rolls. And the crit is actually largely irrelevant, since it only adds 1d6+stat.

Of course, if we ignore poison (since I can only find one that does HP damage) then it's 5d6+2xStat. Possible, but unlikely. And if only one is a crit then we have 9d6+3xStat which would require a Stat of 7 or higher (assuming max rolls). Impossible without magic and with a pure rogue, to the best of my knowledge.

redo your math, before the crit, assuming no onset time, we have 12d6. plus one d6 for the city, and you have 13d6. averaging 5s gets you 75 damage. its certainly possible. it's also so unlikely I'm calling shenanigans. but possible.

1d6 (weapon) + 3d6 (sneak attack) +2d12 (sassone leaf) + Stat. That's for a single hit. Average of 27+stat. Crit bumps that up to 30.5+2xStat. Assuming both crit it's 61+4xStat (easy to hit 73 with 16 Str). Assuming only one crits it's 57.5+3xStat (same 16 Str only gets you to 66.5, but 20 Str gets you to 72.5). And those are average rolls. Luckier or unluckier rolls could be anywhere from 48+Stat to 6+Stat. Also I'm not sure how you're getting all d6s when sassone leaf uses d12s.

Scarab Sages

Bob Bob Bob wrote:
burkoJames wrote:
Bob Bob Bob wrote:
RichFalcon wrote:
They have only tried to cast Buffs on him twice, and i never claimed he was immune. I really don't want to let people down, but its more of a story thing than an actual stat or ability he has. but he is not just blanket immune to buffs/heals.
Well, then you probably need to communicate a little better. Because the original post says:
deadcleric wrote:
1. the GM insists it's a thing that exists in pathfinder and isn't made up.

But "a story thing" reads a whole lot like "I made some @#$% up".

Two-weapon fighting, shortswords, poison, crit, sneak attack, full attack. 74 damage (lazy and divisible by 2). That's 37 damage each hit (assuming both were crits and double slice). So 2d6+3d6+2xStat+poison? Actually, how the @#$% does the poison factor in? The only poison I find that does HP damage (sassone leaf) has an onset time of one minute. I'll include it, but I don't think it should count. 5d6+2d12+2xStat. That's actually not bad assuming good rolls. And the crit is actually largely irrelevant, since it only adds 1d6+stat.

Of course, if we ignore poison (since I can only find one that does HP damage) then it's 5d6+2xStat. Possible, but unlikely. And if only one is a crit then we have 9d6+3xStat which would require a Stat of 7 or higher (assuming max rolls). Impossible without magic and with a pure rogue, to the best of my knowledge.

redo your math, before the crit, assuming no onset time, we have 12d6. plus one d6 for the city, and you have 13d6. averaging 5s gets you 75 damage. its certainly possible. it's also so unlikely I'm calling shenanigans. but possible.
1d6 (weapon) + 3d6 (sneak attack) +2d12 (sassone leaf) + Stat. That's for a single hit. Average of 27+stat. Crit bumps that up to 30.5+2xStat. Assuming both crit it's 61+4xStat (easy to hit 73 with 16 Str). Assuming only one crits it's 57.5+3xStat (same 16 Str only gets you to 66.5, but 20 Str gets you to 72.5). And those are average rolls....

Ok I f$#!ed up AND misread your post. bah.


deadcleric wrote:


The original cleric dying wasn't even really an issue to me, but almost everything every does it just to backstab. The wizard is currently spec-ing just to just kill the rogue

You've created a hostile game environment by accident.

Here is how you fix it, especially for new players.

1. Stop the current game. This game is toast in current form.

2. Start a new game with the following upfront rules:

A. All good alignments. (LG, NG, CG, only.) Your players have proven, at least the rogue, that they are not ready to play neutrals yet.

B. No secrets. None of the PCs may have "dangerous secrets" that the other PCs don't know about. The party are friends and have been together for a while.

C. No PVP period. No PVP for story reasons. No nothing.


D. When bad guys drop dominate spells, have the affected character go stand in a distant or otherwise advantageous-to-the-bad-guy corner like a 'time out' or provide soft cover to the dominator.
E. When bad guys use suggestion, suggest that the affected character goes to the loo or polishes his/her/its armor or something equally harmless (such as going back outside to care for their horses).


Turin the Mad wrote:

D. When bad guys drop dominate spells, have the affected character go stand in a distant or otherwise advantageous-to-the-bad-guy corner like a 'time out' or provide soft cover to the dominator.

E. When bad guys use suggestion, suggest that the affected character goes to the loo or polishes his/her/its armor or something equally harmless (such as going back outside to care for their horses).

Dominate and Suggestion aren't PVP.

I'm being realistic as to what a decent group generally doesn't do. Usually they don't PVP each other.


HWalsh wrote:
Turin the Mad wrote:

D. When bad guys drop dominate spells, have the affected character go stand in a distant or otherwise advantageous-to-the-bad-guy corner like a 'time out' or provide soft cover to the dominator.

E. When bad guys use suggestion, suggest that the affected character goes to the loo or polishes his/her/its armor or something equally harmless (such as going back outside to care for their horses).

Dominate and Suggestion aren't PVP.

I'm being realistic as to what a decent group generally doesn't do. Usually they don't PVP each other.

Bad guys can attempt to use those very means to have PvP occur involuntarily. For a new group, not doing this to them (unless they do it first) is a Good Thing since it prevents players voluntarily failing Will saves in anticipation of hacking up [PC they don't like].


Turin the Mad wrote:
HWalsh wrote:
Turin the Mad wrote:

D. When bad guys drop dominate spells, have the affected character go stand in a distant or otherwise advantageous-to-the-bad-guy corner like a 'time out' or provide soft cover to the dominator.

E. When bad guys use suggestion, suggest that the affected character goes to the loo or polishes his/her/its armor or something equally harmless (such as going back outside to care for their horses).

Dominate and Suggestion aren't PVP.

I'm being realistic as to what a decent group generally doesn't do. Usually they don't PVP each other.

Bad guys can attempt to use those very means to have PvP occur involuntarily. For a new group, not doing this to them (unless they do it first) is a Good Thing since it prevents players voluntarily failing Will saves in anticipation of hacking up [PC they don't like].

Or the GM could just take the affected PC's character sheet for the duration of the spell. The character becomes a temporary NPC played by the GM. No PvP.


To the OP: You said your last character touched this Rogue to gain knowledge about him right? Was the touch successful? Was he successful in gaining knowledge before he died?

If Yes: Do the other characters in the group know the story of how that PC died? Does your new character know the story? Can your new character find out?

If Yes: Can you get to where your previous character's body is located?

If Yes: Do that. Go to a temple and "tithe" to the church in whatever amount gets you a Speak with Dead spell. Ask your former self some questions about what he learned about this Rogue.

If No: Go to a temple and "tithe" to the church in whatever amount gets you a Commune spell. Explain to the priest you have concerns about a traveling companion and need answers. Give the priest a list of questions to ask his god about your Rogue companion. These must be Yes or No questions, or answerable in 5 or fewer words.

Possible question examples:
1. What is the true name of the roguish traveling companion of //NAME// the Druid, //NAME// the Wizard, //NAME// the Barbarian, //NAME// the Fighter, //NAME// the Monk, and //NAME// the Sorcerer (you).

A god should be able to figure out who you are talking about from that description and give you a true name?

2. Is //Rogue's NAME// immune to magic?

3. Is //Rogue's NAME// a Human?

4. Is //Rogue's NAME// Evil?

Spoiler Alert: He certainly should be...:
Evil implies hurting, oppressing, and killing others. Some evil creatures simply have no compassion for others and kill without qualms if doing so is convenient. Others actively pursue evil, killing for sport or out of duty to some evil deity or master.

People who are neutral with respect to good and evil have compunctions against killing the innocent, but may lack the commitment to make sacrifices to protect or help others.

Neutral Evil: A neutral evil villain does whatever she can get away with. She is out for herself, pure and simple. She sheds no tears for those she kills, whether for profit, sport, or convenience. She has no love of order and holds no illusions that following laws, traditions, or codes would make her any better or more noble. On the other hand, she doesn't have the restless nature or love of conflict that a chaotic evil villain has.

Some neutral evil villains hold up evil as an ideal, committing evil for its own sake. Most often, such villains are devoted to evil deities or secret societies.

Neutral evil represents pure evil without honor and without variation.

...

Or you could let someone else handle him. If there are any large-ish cities in your campaign area, which are home to mage schools/guilds, you can just tip them off that a traveling companion of yours claims to be, and for all intents and purposes seems to be, immune to magic. Any guild of mages worth their robes will want to get to the bottom of that anomaly. With any luck this might even get him kidnapped and "tested" to see exactly what the extent of his immunity is, and why he has it.


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Kryzbyn wrote:

Maybe this is a bit meta but:

Why would people adventure with a guy who takes all the loot and threatens to kill them all the time?

"We no longer care what your name is or why you can't accept heals. We're leaving you at the next town. If you come after us, know we no longer consider you an ally."

There is nothing "meta" about that at all.

In a world like Golarion, where monsters and magic and danger and death all exist like they are in Golarion, choosing to spend your lives in the worst, most dangerous, most horrible, awful, soul-sapping, nightmarish places in THAT world, with no chance of surviving EXCEPT your trust in the skill and loyalty and devotion of your companions, yeah, nobody would adventure with someone they even doubted, let alone someone like this jerk (character jerk, maybe the player is or isn't, but the character obviously is).


@Bob Bob Bob

You are right that the sassone leaf residue does 2d12 damage BUT also has an onset time of 1 minute so you shouldn't be adding this damage.

Now as far as i get is:

Main hand attack: 1d6(shortsword) + 5 STR + 3d6 (sneak attack) + 2 (power attack) = 21 (average rolls) and if it's critical 31.5
Off-hand attack: 1d6(shortsword) + 5 STR (let's assume double slice) + 3d6 (sneak attack) + 1 (power attack) = 20 (average rolls) and if it's critical 29.5

If both are critical then we are at 61 damage which means that the 73-75 damage (that the DM said) isn't impossible but requires very very good rolls, specifically you need to increase the average of the 10d6 from 3.5 per d6 to ~4.8 per d6.

Also the 20 STR along with the 15 DEX seems a little too high for a character with no magic items.

I know i didn't account for the poison that the DM mentioned but unless the rogue used something like the deathblade (which costs 1800gp per dose) there is no poison that could really make a difference against a drider, the only poison that maybe could do something is the greenblood oil but i really doubt it.

To make it more clear in order to work the rogue needs either:
a) Very high stats, a very good build, roll two consecutive critical threats, confirm both of them and roll exceptional on the 10d6
b) Exceptional stats, a very good build, roll two consecutive critical threats, confirm both of them, roll well on the 10d6 and the drider to lose the fort save to the poison.

PS. I am assuming that the loss of hit points from the con damage from the poison added up to the rogue's damage


@RichFalcon
Firstly, i urge you to check the rogue's character sheet because that damage really pushes things, if you find it hard to check it, you can post it here and have us check it for you.

Secondly, yeah the rogue really seems like chaotic evil and not neutral but then again (as you said) a lot of the players act like jerks, i suggest to tell them to change their characters and tell them this time to make heroes and not jerks.

Thirdly, we don't know exactly how the rogue's curse-thingy works but i have to tell you that a blanket no roll immunity to magic doesn't exist in the system, even the golems' immunity to magic only applies to spells that are SR:YES spells and SR:NO spells affect them normally. Also the whole "allies magic doesn't affect you but enemy magic affects you" seems very weird for Golarion, even in the lore i can't think of anything like that happening, sure i can think of a couple of things in Golarion that might do that but none of them is written.

Fourthly, if the party can't heal the rogue and he doesn't have any magic items how does he stays alive?


It did happen a couple of weeks ago, so I can't remember the circumstances entirely. But his damage rolls were very high. Normally he hits for a lot less. He spends the majority of his money on potions. We did a 20 point buy system, and somehow our monk thought it was possible to have 23 dex. So it's possible the rogue made a mistake as well, but he's pretty much following a build he found online.
The biggest problem in my opinion is player vs character knoweldge. When one (wizard) starts talking about how strong their character is, it gets under the others skin (rogue). And vice versa. And the argument from real life boils over into the game.
And the arguments don't get serious enouth that one wants the other not to rp with us anymore, they just don't like each others characters in game. They both want to be the group leader/main character.
Almost like they want to prove who is the alpha.


leo1925 wrote:

@Bob Bob Bob

You are right that the sassone leaf residue does 2d12 damage BUT also has an onset time of 1 minute so you shouldn't be adding this damage.

Now as far as i get is:

Main hand attack: 1d6(shortsword) + 5 STR + 3d6 (sneak attack) + 2 (power attack) = 21 (average rolls) and if it's critical 31.5
Off-hand attack: 1d6(shortsword) + 5 STR (let's assume double slice) + 3d6 (sneak attack) + 1 (power attack) = 20 (average rolls) and if it's critical 29.5

If both are critical then we are at 61 damage which means that the 73-75 damage (that the DM said) isn't impossible but requires very very good rolls, specifically you need to increase the average of the 10d6 from 3.5 per d6 to ~4.8 per d6.

Also the 20 STR along with the 15 DEX seems a little too high for a character with no magic items.

I know i didn't account for the poison that the DM mentioned but unless the rogue used something like the deathblade (which costs 1800gp per dose) there is no poison that could really make a difference against a drider, the only poison that maybe could do something is the greenblood oil but i really doubt it.

To make it more clear in order to work the rogue needs either:
a) Very high stats, a very good build, roll two consecutive critical threats, confirm both of them and roll exceptional on the 10d6
b) Exceptional stats, a very good build, roll two consecutive critical threats, confirm both of them, roll well on the 10d6 and the drider to lose the fort save to the poison.

PS. I am assuming that the loss of hit points from the con damage from the poison added up to the rogue's damage

He did the high dmg to a dire bat I think. The drider only had like 45 hit points

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