the melancholy of mapping round


RPG Superstar™ General Discussion

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Marathon Voter Season 9

Well, having looked at all the maps and taken some time to think, I have to ask, is anyone else left deeply disappointed by the general level of quality?

Sczarni RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9 aka Arkos

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Wow, I'm kind of hoping this thread gets deleted, since it doesn't add anything to the conversation. But just in case some of the competitors happen to check and see this before then, let me stop in and disagree with this post.

Given a two day turnaround, on top of the fact that the map round uses a different skill set than the magic item round, I am not disappointed in any way. Rather, I'm EXCITED about all the amazing possibilities I see here. Everyone took a different approach to the round and we get to see what a talented group of designers think a map needs in order to be creative and useful.

I had no trouble coming up with a list of favorites, and easily had to cut down to a final 8 votes. This is a great set of flipmats. My eight favorites deserve my vote in this competition!

I guess everyone's entitled to their opinion, but still. I'm really sad when someone looks at 32 different works of creativity and feels compelled to post about how terrible they all are. Looking at the creative work of people only ever makes me feel positive. More positivity around here would go a long way towards supporting this competition.

So, to answer your question, NO.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 4 , Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 9 aka MillerHero

There were 4 or 5 that got me excited for an encounter there. I didn't find it hard to vote for the rest of the 8 that I wanted to see more from.

Scarab Sages Developer

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In case the point has been missed, these are map turnovers from a designer, not final maps. They should clearly describe an interesting and evocative location which would be a fun place to run encounters.
As a veteran of the industry and the host of the contest, I am very pleased with the quality of entries this year, and applaud our designers for doing such great jobs.

Dedicated Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9

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Personally, I suck at maps.

The maps we've gotten this round - the ones I liked and the ones I didn't - have forced me to think.

When the round started, even though I had also looked at and voted on maps in season 8 of RPGSS, I wasn't even really clear on how I would go about judging a good map from a bad map.

I'll say that again: I wasn't clear on what I thought would make a good map or a bad map.

Q: How then would I design a "good" map in 48 hours?
A: I wouldn't have.

But now I have a better idea about what power I do and don't have when designing a map, what I might be able to accomplish with my rough map, and why I should prioritize some things over others when actually drawing the thing. It might be that immediately after the season 8 map round I'd also felt like I'd learned some of these same things...and then forgotten the. But that's why practice is so darn useful.

I've been through every map, and was frequently surprised to find that what I thought was a good map, the judges thought was middling or less, and what the judges would gush over I found poor.

These designers, all 32, open themselves up to public criticism in a way that is extremely uncomfortable, and who benefits?

Me.

Each and every person who looks at the maps and makes an attempt to determine good from bad - even if you don't read the judges' remarks, and you really should - will learn something. The less experienced you are at fantasy cartography, the more you learn. And the lessons aren't only drawn from "good" maps that one can then copy. To be a designer, you have to do more than copy. I'm very, very grateful to these 32 folks who are teaching me to be a more creative, more compelling storyteller.

Liberty's Edge Star Voter Season 9

My Problem is that Judges are stating that they don't see a Professional Cartographer being able to turn these Ideas into some good locations. I ain't been paid to do maps, so I guess as an Amature Cartographer I don't know what anything about Mapping.

I have seen several Maps that I am willing to remap for others right now.

I like some of the Maps even though there is "wasted" Space on them..one uses a 7" by 24 " Legend :( but it is still a good map. I guess We saw different criteria...My understanding it was a 24"x30 Map saved at 72 DPI. As Such it was basically a Battlemap ...aka...Flip Map. If someone printed it out would need to tell its own Story..not needing a Legend

Some people are getting Dished because of their Locales....Lets Face it after all these years it is getting hard to come up with some sort of Generic Location that has not been done over and over...If a DM/GM can't fit a Map into a Generic setting then I feel sorry for them. Heck I don't like the Majority of the "Golarion" Artwork for Characters but I can Understand in a sense the need to look at a Character and say that is from "Pathfinder" but I usually end up with typical "D&D" Medevil Style Fantasy Art for Characters. A Map does not need to Scream " Golarions" or "Varisan" or "Kara Maga" to be useful.

Type of places that Have been done over and over and over
Churches, Taverns, Inns, Brothels, Gambling Halls, Monster Lairs, Caves, Sewers, Warehouses, Castles, Keeps, Cabins...If you can name it, it has been mapped more than once.... The Difference is in the Artwork you put into it.

The Rules stated...that the Map was to be able to be reimagined by an Professional Artist later...just concept it out.

Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9

Zombieneighbours wrote:

Well, having looked at all the maps and taken some time to think, I have to ask, is anyone else left deeply disappointed by the general level of quality?

The general level of quality? No, I am not disappointed. There are some very good maps of not-so-interesting locales, very good locales somewhat poorly represented, average locales depicted ok, boring places drawn badly and very interesting sites rendered with much awesome.

Generally I think the quality is good.

Specifically there are some less than stellar maps, but these are few compared to the better, interesting, clearly depicted and very well thought out turnovers.

Dedicated Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9

I am expecting to struggle to determine which maps I vote for. I haven't looked at all of them yet, as I am commenting on maps as I look at them. But about a third of the way through and I have 4 maps I definitely want to vote for and several others I would be happy to vote for.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I liked 10 of the entries enough that I had some difficulty paring it down to the maximum of 8. What more can the voting public want? If all 32 had been fantastic, that would have made my voting much more difficult. ;)

Regardless, even for the maps I didn't like, I can still appreciate the effort that went into them and wish the contestants better luck next time! I'm sure the whole process is very educational for anyone wanting to get into the RPG industry, which is more or less the purpose of the contest.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16 , Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Rusty Ironpants

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No I am not disappointed in the general quality of the maps. Some of the maps are very good, in that they are of very interesting and creative locations. Others are good in that they show a more common location in a new or interesting way. There is of course a range of quality and some of the maps are less inspiring, but but I would not call any of them "bad" or "poor quality".

Sometimes I wish the Paizo forums had a "dislike" button. I would mash that sucker on the original post ad infinitum.

Community Manager , Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8

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Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

In case the point has been missed, these are map turnovers from a designer, not final maps. They should clearly describe an interesting and evocative location which would be a fun place to run encounters.

As a veteran of the industry and the host of the contest, I am very pleased with the quality of entries this year, and applaud our designers for doing such great jobs.

What Owen said.

Liberty's Edge Star Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber
Cuuniyevo wrote:
I liked 10 of the entries enough that I had some difficulty paring it down to the maximum of 8.

Same here. 10 maps in my Keep list. Have to consider them all again to select the 2 I will leave behind :-/

Dedicated Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9

So at the half-way point I already have 6 maps I definitely want to vote for and 3 strong maybes.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9

Looking at the OP's voter tag, I assume he's new to the contest. Looking back at previous seasons of RPGSS, round 2 has usually been the most brutal round because many people who make the top 32 for the first time are like deer caught in the headlights. (Happened to me once.)

Relatively speaking, on average, the quality is very good this year. Yes, there are some god-awful maps in the mix, but it's nothing compared to the archetype rounds in 2011 and 2013.

It'll even out in the later rounds.

Liberty's Edge Star Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber
The Raven Black wrote:
Same here. 10 maps in my Keep list. Have to consider them all again to select the 2 I will leave behind :-/

My voting is done. Among the 4 maps that were vying for my last 2 slots, one was better than the others after due consideration. I chose the last based on the mojo demonstrated by the designer in the magic item round.

I believe there was a thread last season where people gave the list of the maps they voted for. Are we allowed to start such a thread this season ?

Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9

That would be an Exit Poll, TRB....

Dedicated Voter Season 9

I found 8 which were really strong. There were also a number in the 'weak keep' pile; it was astounding to me how wide the quality gap was between my top 8 selection and the rest, but I can understand and relate as a not-terribly-artistic person myself. To be honest, looking at published flip-maps I feel that the bottom-of-the-barrel submissions are on average of a quality to be sent to the cartographer for publication. The ones I really liked would probably not get turned into flip-mats as they're too specific to a particular plot or locale.

Which puts me in a bit of an odd situation where I'm not voting for flip-mat quality flip-mats designers (i.e. people adhering to the spirit of the guidelines), but instead designer quality writers who can also formulate their writing into a map (i.e. people who did their own thing, only following the mechanical guidelines). If that makes sense.

It's entirely possible that the maps I've rejected as being 'weaker' were submitted by people who looked at actual flip-mats and attempted to give a flip-mat submission instead of a plot-driven encounter area. If that's the case I feel bad about not up-voting them, but oh well.

Liberty's Edge Star Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9

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Oceanshieldwolf wrote:
That would be an Exit Poll, TRB....

Do you mean we can open one right now, or do we need to wait for the end of the voting period ?

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32 , Star Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9

Need to wait for the voting period to end, i believe. Though you can discuss privately with friends.

Liberty's Edge Star Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber
Donald Robinson wrote:
Need to wait for the voting period to end, i believe. Though you can discuss privately with friends.

Okay. Will wait then :-)

Unless I am mistaken, that will give us 24 hours for bets and guesses until the official results are given :-)

Marathon Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Clouds Without Water

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I think the mapping round might be the hardest round of the contest.

The encounter round has a map too, of course, but most of the focus is on...the encounter. Which is something a homebrew developer has probably spent a fair amount of time doing in the past.

Same with magic items, monsters, even whole adventures. As a homebrewer you've almost certainly done all those things to one degree or another. Maybe not to a professional level, but you've done it.

World maps, continent maps, region maps, city maps...sure, you've done those. Maybe even designed a castle or three.

But an encounter-level map, on it's own, without the actual encounter? You easily could have never even attempted it.

And if you're like me, when you have done this level map for an encounter, you could get away with sketching some lines on graph paper and letting your words sell the situation. No such luck here.

It's a tough round. I do think it serves the contest well, finding those of the Top 32 who are ready to advance.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7

Oceanshieldwolf wrote:
That would be an Exit Poll, TRB....

Ok, I'll have to ask since I've seen it twice today: what does "TRB" stand for?

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Mark D Griffin

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The Raven Black would be my guess. The name of the person who asked the question.

Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9

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Yes, sorry Pedro, Mark is correct. I think TRB also goes by The black raven (Tbr).


Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Trekkie90909 wrote:

Which puts me in a bit of an odd situation where I'm not voting for flip-mat quality flip-mats designers (i.e. people adhering to the spirit of the guidelines), but instead designer quality writers who can also formulate their writing into a map (i.e. people who did their own thing, only following the mechanical guidelines). If that makes sense.

It's entirely possible that the maps I've rejected as being 'weaker' were submitted by people who looked at actual flip-mats and attempted to give a flip-mat submission instead of a plot-driven encounter area. If that's the case I feel bad about not up-voting them, but oh well.

I have to say that I'm confused as to what the contestants were supposed to be producing this round. Is it the usual RPG Superstar 'map for an encounter,' or is it a flip-mat? I don't even know how to vote on them because I have different criteria for either option.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Mark D Griffin

Joana wrote:
I have to say that I'm confused as to what the contestants were supposed to be producing this round. Is it the usual RPG Superstar 'map for an encounter,' or is it a flip-mat? I don't even know how to vote on them because I have different criteria for either option.

You can find the rules for round 2 right here

Hopefully checking those out will answer your question.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7

Oceanshieldwolf wrote:
Yes, sorry Pedro, Mark is correct. I think TRB also goes by The black raven (Tbr).

Ah, alright then. It's hard to keep up with acronyms these days. :)

As for the maps... well, I would have easily voted for 3 of 4 more—had to do some thinking to narrow it down to 8.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 9 aka Thrawn007

Trekkie90909 wrote:

I found 8 which were really strong. There were also a number in the 'weak keep' pile; it was astounding to me how wide the quality gap was between my top 8 selection and the rest, but I can understand and relate as a not-terribly-artistic person myself. To be honest, looking at published flip-maps I feel that the bottom-of-the-barrel submissions are on average of a quality to be sent to the cartographer for publication. The ones I really liked would probably not get turned into flip-mats as they're too specific to a particular plot or locale.

Which puts me in a bit of an odd situation where I'm not voting for flip-mat quality flip-mats designers (i.e. people adhering to the spirit of the guidelines), but instead designer quality writers who can also formulate their writing into a map (i.e. people who did their own thing, only following the mechanical guidelines). If that makes sense.

It's entirely possible that the maps I've rejected as being 'weaker' were submitted by people who looked at actual flip-mats and attempted to give a flip-mat submission instead of a plot-driven encounter area. If that's the case I feel bad about not up-voting them, but oh well.

I really want to discuss this dilemma in depth AFTER voting has closed. I have a lot of thoughts on the topic, but I don't want to risk a DQ by discussing it now.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7

I don't see anywhere in the rules that the maps should be adequate for publication as a flip-mat product. To me, the relevant creative parameters are:

"Entry must be a map of a fantasy-themed location on Golarion appropriate for an encounter. You may create a map for an encounter set in a city, wilderness, dungeon, or any other fantasy Golarion location appropriate for an encounter map. You may present a map designed for a specific encounter, or one useful for a variety of encounters."

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9 aka motteditor

I agree with Pedro. I'm looking at the flip-mat aspect as setting dimensions. What I care about is can the designers provide a good map that would be a neat Golarion location to have an adventure (preferably for both GM and players).

Marathon Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Clouds Without Water

There was some confusing flip-mat discussion before the round started. My impression is that it may have caused some contestants to aim in the wrong directions.

But the official rules are what matter in the end.

Sczarni RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9 aka Arkos

Pedro Coelho wrote:

I don't see anywhere in the rules that the maps should be adequate for publication as a flip-mat product. To me, the relevant creative parameters are:

"Entry must be a map of a fantasy-themed location on Golarion appropriate for an encounter. You may create a map for an encounter set in a city, wilderness, dungeon, or any other fantasy Golarion location appropriate for an encounter map. You may present a map designed for a specific encounter, or one useful for a variety of encounters."

You know, maybe it made its way into previews of the Round 2 rules which used the word flip-mat, but "flip" doesn't show up in the actual rules at all. But part of my voting process had been to look for things which I could use as a flip-mat in a huge pile of potential encounters. I'm going to have to run back through it before the round ends...


Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
R D Ramsey wrote:
There was some confusing flip-mat discussion before the round started.

This. Now that I've read the rules, it's a lot more clear, but due to the pre-round boards chatter, I was under the impression that the assignment was a flip-mat rather then just being the same size as a flip-mat (which is a bit confusing in and of itself to me; it's hard to imagine a flip-mat-sized full page encounter map in an adventure).

Anyway, I have a better grasp on the judging criteria now. Thanks!

Star Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8

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Joana wrote:
it's hard to imagine a flip-mat-sized full page encounter map in an adventure

Flip-mats by definition are 24 x 30-square maps appropriate for a variety of encounters. Flip-mats and map packs are also used as the maps for a variety of encounters in Roleplaying Guild scenarios, including as full-page encounter maps.

Also, there's what Owen said:

Owen K.C. Stephens wrote:
I think "Encounter that fits on a flip-map, in the flip-map style," is plenty of focus this year.

as well as:

Owen K.C. Stephens wrote:
If it is a previously unmapped area of Golarion, fits on the grid, is to the correct scale, and would work well for encounters, it is appropriate. A small dungeon is no different from a city corner in this regard.

And the rules are explicit:

The rules wrote:
You may present a map designed for a specific encounter, or one useful for a variety of encounters.

A map that's built like a flip-mat depicting a generic Golarion-compatible location is as equally valid as a map for a specific encounter, per the rules.

The only provided voting criteria are that it should be lore-compatible, that the map depicts "a place you would want to adventure" and is "an interesting and clear map", and that voters explicitly should not judge the map on its artistic merit. The rest of the rules are more straightforward requirements (24 x 30 squares, 72 dpi, scale and compass rose, etc.) that can lead to disqualification.

Whether you generally find more specific maps better at depicting "places you would want to adventure" over generic maps, or vice versa, is clearly up to you. But an entry being similar in scope or style to a flip-mat should not be an inherent knock on an entry, as long as it's judged by whether it's "a place you would want to adventure" and can support one or more encounters.

Scarab Sages Developer

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If we do the same round next year, it'll likely be the Tactical-Scale Map round, and I'll never refer to it as anything else.

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9 aka motteditor

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I shall, however, refer to it as a My Little Pony map, just to mess with people. :)

RPG Superstar 2009, RPG Superstar Judgernaut, Contributor

Joana wrote:
...I was under the impression that the assignment was a flip-mat rather then just being the same size as a flip-mat (which is a bit confusing in and of itself to me; it's hard to imagine a flip-mat-sized full page encounter map in an adventure).

One of the reasons for the imposition of the 24 x 30 squares is that a map using those dimensions will fit on a flip-mat. Speaking for myself, I often use that knowledge to plan out maps that I do for adventures in Paizo APs, because I know that'll make play at the gaming table easier for the GM and the players, who'll likely be using a standard-sized flip-mat to reproduce it. Or, I may spec something out as the size of two flip-mats side-by-side. Either way, it makes reproducing the map at the table easier for the GM.

Now that said, I've also drawn out some HUGE maps for adventures in APs, as well...usually the high-level ones, because a lot of those have featured battles against very large creatures and/or tactics where using large area effect spells come into play. Or, in one case, I had a giant-sized lair to illustrate. So, it can vary by assignment, and I generally just try to do a map that does the encounter and the locale justice. And, if I can fit it onto some multiple of the flip-mat size, I certainly attempt to do so.

Thus, for the purposes of this round's assignment, I think the 24 x 30 requirement is a good idea. It gets these designers thinking in terms of what "works" at the gaming table right away. And, that's a good thing to have in their head as they create future encounters and adventuring locations.

But that's just my two cents,
--Neil

Star Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9

That's just not cool Jacob ;), no one deserves that kind of mental attack LOL! But, you ask, why can't we have a MLP map, cutie marks make excellent map key icons... ::explodes::


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Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Neil Spicer wrote:
Joana wrote:
...I was under the impression that the assignment was a flip-mat rather then just being the same size as a flip-mat (which is a bit confusing in and of itself to me; it's hard to imagine a flip-mat-sized full page encounter map in an adventure).
One of the reasons for the imposition of the 24 x 30 squares is that a map using those dimensions will fit on a flip-mat. Speaking for myself, I often use that knowledge to plan out maps that I do for adventures in Paizo APs, because I know that'll make play at the gaming table easier for the GM and the players, who'll likely be using a standard-sized flip-mat to reproduce it. Or, I may spec something out as the size of two flip-mats side-by-side. Either way, it makes reproducing the map at the table easier for the GM.

Ah, see, there was the sticking point for me. It just clicked. When I read flip-mat, my mind went directly to Paizo's line of flip-mats like Haunted Forest or Waterfront Tavern. The connection to "this map should be able to be reproduced on a standard blank flip-mat by the GM" never occurred to me.

I got it now. But I think referring to it as the Tactical-Scale Map round in the future is a fantastic idea. ;)

Liberty's Edge Star Voter Season 9

Joana wrote:


Ah, see, there was the sticking point for me. It just clicked. When I read flip-mat, my mind went directly to Paizo's line of flip-mats like Haunted Forest or Waterfront Tavern. The connection to "this map should be able to be reproduced on a standard blank flip-mat by the GM" never occurred to me.

Does your group ever use maps?

Regardless of the Scale of a Map...If it ain't printed out you have to do that anyways if you use Maps and Minis. I have yet to see an Entire Modules Complete Cartograpghy printed out at 5Ft Scaled Maps.

I had a Program once called Gridmaster..It was designed so that you could print of any Size of Map...With a Lot of Tape and Time and carefull Cutting I managed to Design and print off a Complete Castle which was 144 Inches Long and 96 inch High...Fit great on a Wall, however had a Terrible time using the Minis on the Wall.
Can't ever Imagine Paizo trying to do that. Average group uses a Standard Kitchen Table to play on. and that was just the Ground Level...I ran out of Wall Space mapping out the Other 5 Levels.

I would love to start seeing every single map in a module printed out at 1" Gridded 5 Ft Battlemaps..

Tears at Bitter Manor has a Kinda Flip Map..
One Side has a "scaled" on Gridded Poster Art style Map which can't be played on and the Other side is an Actual 1" Inch = 5 Foot Battlemap....No legend..No Lables...But actually playable with Minis.
But Not every locale is tacticle mapped out..A Group still has to Map a Portion and Remap as needed for all the other Encounter..

But the Manor House could be used in any Game without having to run Tears of Bitter Manor..a plob and drop map anywhere..once or unlimited times.

Joana wrote:


I got it now. But I think referring to it as the Tactical-Scale Map round in the future is a fantastic idea. ;)

Wording Semantics...

a 24x30 1"= 5Ft Battlemap
a 24X30 1"= 5 ft Flip Map
a 24X30 1"= 5 Ft Tacticle-Scale Map
They are all the Same thing

The rules were very simple people Added their own "perceptions" of the rules...Encounter Map ie tied Directly to a Scenario in a Module..after all the Winner gets to write a Module..So the Battlemap/Flip Map/Tacticle-scale Map must be tied into the future Module

Rules were clearly defined..
24 1 inch Squares x 30 1 Inch Squares
Presented at 72 DPI
(72x24)1728 pixles x 2178 pixles(72x30)
Scale 1 Inch Representing 5 Foot Scale

They Could have set the DPI to 50, 100, 300 or 1000 DPI regardless they all would still be 24x30 1"=5 ft Scale...Only difference would be the Quailty of the Picture and the Ability for it to have been enlarged without distortion.

Liberty's Edge Star Voter Season 9

Pedro Coelho wrote:

I don't see anywhere in the rules that the maps should be adequate for publication as a flip-mat product. To me, the relevant creative parameters are:

"Entry must be a map of a fantasy-themed location on Golarion appropriate for an encounter. You may create a map for an encounter set in a city, wilderness, dungeon, or any other fantasy Golarion location appropriate for an encounter map. You may present a map designed for a specific encounter, or one useful for a variety of encounters."

Would a Whore House be considered a fantasy Golarion Appropriate Encounter, Or a Dope House, or Dwarven Donkey sex theater...I believe that is what they Meant...

Can you really tell looking at a Deserted Temple if it Exsists in Golarion? Greyhawk? Forgotten Realms?

Shadow Lodge RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32 , Star Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8 aka WalterGM

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JPSTOD wrote:

...

Dwarven Donkey sex theater...

Well someone's games are a lot more exciting than mine.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
JPSTOD wrote:
Does your group ever use maps?

Yeah, but I don't use a blank flip-mat. It's too small, and I can't stand the folds sticking up. I use a Chessex Megamat or 1-in-grid paper if I'm drawing my own map or copying a simple dungeon, but if I'm using a published adventure, I pull the maps out of the PDF and print them at 1 in = 1 square scale. I'm not good at copying complicated things freehand, and most Paizo encounters, to their credit, are more interesting than a collection of square rooms that follow the gridlines.

Liberty's Edge Star Voter Season 9

Walter Sheppard wrote:
JPSTOD wrote:

...

Dwarven Donkey sex theater...
Well someone's games are a lot more exciting than mine.

Trust me it ain't my Games...

Personally I feel Sexual Content has no place in the Game...
except selecting gender for character creation...

But these days some people just have to push their lifestyles into games..

Sczarni RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Champion Voter Season 6, Champion Voter Season 7, Champion Voter Season 8, Champion Voter Season 9

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
If we do the same round next year, it'll likely be the Tactical-Scale Map round, and I'll never refer to it as anything else.

I liked the name Encounter Map for the round. I think some of the maps were appropriate for the name and rules for the round. The rules did say "an encounter", not multiple encounters. I feel like most of the contestants missed that part. Of course, most of the voters as well.

Tactical-scale map sounds too retro, like something from the Chainmail days. For a Tactical-Scale Map, I picture black and white map with unit formations, 10 foot grid squares, and designed for 3+ encounter sites. Adventure Location may be a better name if you are looking for multiple encounters without sounding like a grognard...

Also a Strategic Map round could be fun, using a hex map for larger scales.

Liberty's Edge Star Voter Season 9

Just Call it a 24x30 Single sided Battlemap/Flip Map

And to Simply and Clarify ..Post Examples of Various Maps like what The Company wants..Not Hard to do...

Liberty's Edge Star Voter Season 9

R D Ramsey wrote:


But an encounter-level map, on it's own, without the actual encounter? You easily could have never even attempted it.

Would you mind Clarifying this portion of your reply?

I do this all the Time.
I did this for My Map for the Contest.

Wererats in a Sewer

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8 , Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8 aka DeathQuaker

I know I was blathering on a bit in the round 2 preview rule discussion as someone asked about scale and I said, "It should be 5 ft = 1 unch since it's flip mat scale" and in response to someone saying "I can't fit much on 24x30" and I said something like "Look at actual flip-mats to see what you can fit on something that size, it's more than you think," and I worry that that stuff I said confused people and if I did I'm very very very sorry.

On the other hand, IMO the rules themselves (which did not include the word "flip-mat" (or "flip-map")) were crystal clear about what was sought out, and I can only hope voters and contestants alike read them carefully before proceeding.

Liberty's Edge Star Voter Season 9

The Waters got muddied when people started throwing in their "defining" of the Map rules...

Then people started saying "encounter" and then Multilevel , then Verticle v Horizontal....and then Hand drawn v Computer Aided...

and then How to scan ..scale.. etc....

Liberty's Edge Star Voter Season 9

Joana wrote:


Yeah, but I don't use a blank flip-mat. It's too small, and I can't stand the folds sticking up. I use a Chessex Megamat or 1-in-grid paper if I'm drawing my own map or copying a simple dungeon,

But when you draw a Map on it, Do you draw it so that the players can move from area to area without having to jump huge amount of squares or Do it in fluid movement in a straight shot? Hence my comment about not being able to move minis fluidly into the crypt.

While not feasible to provide 100% of the Maps in 1"=5' Battle Maps, I know that they have included a couple in several Modules for key encounters.

Joana wrote:

but if I'm using a published adventure, I pull the maps out of the PDF and print them at 1 in = 1 square scale. I'm not good at copying complicated things freehand, and most Paizo encounters, to their credit, are more interesting than a collection of square rooms that follow the gridlines.

We use a Blank flip Map, also we have several Mats and even 1 inch grided Easle pad also for Random and Nonpublished Adventures and encounters. But drawing the Map areas 100% of the time is time Consuming. We now only Map when Combat occurs.

Said this a Million Times before and will keep saying it until it happens :) ...Paizo needs to start providing VTT and Digital Maps (with Grid and Without Grids). So many people are going Digital these days.

We are older "poor" players so we can't afford to print out 1 time use scaled maps for every Game seccession. So I end up working with the DM/GM to reproduce the Maps from Published Adventures to display digitally. I have the 32" TV..I have the Cartgraphy Programs..I just need a dedicated room for a Game table. Seems my buddy won't replace the kitchen table in case of Quests sometimes.

Fell free to stop by http://jpstodwftexas.deviantart.com/gallery/ and take a look at what I have converted and my other Maps. I also post on Cartographer's Guild.

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