Question on Hand Crossbows


Rules Questions

Silver Crusade

Friend of mine asked me today, how does one go about Firing two hand crossbows and and reloading them both in the same round and then fire both again next round, I was not to sure so just a quicky.


RAW you can't, even with Rapid Reload, as you need two hands to reload a crossbow.


lvl 11 Gunslinger (Bolt Ace) can do it


PRD wrote:
Inexplicable Reload (Ex): At 11th level, loading a crossbow becomes unthinking and automatic for a bolt ace. As long as she has at least 1 grit point, she always starts each round of combat (even a surprise round) with her crossbow loaded. Also the amount of time needed to reload a crossbow decreases by one step: a standard action becomes a move action, a move action becomes a swift action, a swift action becomes a free action, and a free action becomes not an action. This deed replaces lightning reload.

Doesn't say anything about doing it one handed? It's not a class I'm familiar with so is that an earlier skill?

Silver Crusade

Sorry I ment Repeating one handed crossbows.


Valkyrie-Storm wrote:
Sorry I ment Repeating one handed crossbows.
PRD wrote:
However, you must fire the weapon with two hands in order to use the reloading lever, and you must use two hands to load a new case of bolts.

So same problem I'm afraid.

Sovereign Court

Hand Crossbows are basically designed for melee TWF rogues to get multiple sneak attacks when they win initiative in the first round. Then they're dropped, the rogue draws his blades and moves in.

Much better range than throwing daggers, and if you have the Repeating Hand Crossbows you get a full attack at level 8+.

Maybe there's other effective ways to use them, but that's the only one I've seen.


Juggler Bard.

Glove of Storing (store one when you reload)


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Two levels in alchemist for Vestigial Arm. Add another two levels in alchemist (four total) and the character can take Explosive Missile.


Dragonchess Player wrote:
Two levels in alchemist for Vestigial Arm. Add another two levels in alchemist (four total) and the character can take Explosive Missile.
Would that work? RAW is
PRD wrote:
However, you must fire the weapon with two hands in order to use the reloading lever, and you must use two hands to load a new case of bolts.

and that would still only give you three hands.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
CountofUndolpho wrote:
Dragonchess Player wrote:
Two levels in alchemist for Vestigial Arm. Add another two levels in alchemist (four total) and the character can take Explosive Missile.
Would that work? RAW is
PRD wrote:
However, you must fire the weapon with two hands in order to use the reloading lever, and you must use two hands to load a new case of bolts.
and that would still only give you three hands.

Skip the repeating version and take Rapid Reload (Hand Crossbow). Reload as a free action (using the vestigial arm), fire one in each hand at no additional penalty (other than normal for two-weapon fighting). If a rogue, then the vivisectionist archetype for alchemist gains Sneak Attack progression that stacks with rogue levels (although you lose Bomb, so Explosive Missile is out).


I could see 3 hands with the vestigial working back and forth working the crank to keep a pair of repeating crossbows firing. You'd still need to drop or store one to reload the other and then vice versa, but you could get in a round or 2 of looking like a diablo 3 demon hunter =)P

Silver Crusade

I got it wrong, cause we where discussing making a Demon Hunter PFS using Hand Crossbows (No idea where I got repeaters from) but from what I have read rapid reload make reloading them a free action and if I'm correct you infinite Free actions on your turn?


Not infinite Free Actions, it's at the GMs descretion, still need two hands to load so would need Dragonchess Player's vestigal arm to do it if the GM would let you. I tend to limit it to 3 Free Actions to a limb.

PRD wrote:
Free Action: Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort. You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, there are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free, as decided by the GM.

I bring up the two hands bit as you'd have to stash one to reload one (without the vestigal) and it's a movement action to sling/sheath put away a weapon. Dropping is free but picking up is a movement action.

@PSY850 RAW is you need to use two hands to fire in order to use the lever RAI? I'd probably allow it ...but...

Scarab Sages

I like Juggler Bard more than the Alchemist. I really don't want to play a three-armed mutant in most cases.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

There is also the spell reloading hands. Not the best solution, as far as action economy, but the ammunition is conjured (free, doesn't need to be tracked) and counts as magical for penetrating DR.

Liberty's Edge

CountofUndolpho wrote:
Not infinite Free Actions, it's at the GMs descretion, still need two hands to load so would need Dragonchess Player's vestigal arm to do it if the GM would let you. I tend to limit it to 3 Free Actions to a limb.

Rapid Reload specifically allows a hand crossbow to be used to make all attacks in a full attack action: "If you have selected this feat for a hand crossbow or light crossbow, you may fire that weapon as many times in a full-attack action as you could attack if you were using a bow."

Thus, four free actions is certainly possible. However, that still doesn't address the question of TWO hand crossbows.

The Bolt Ace 'Inexplicable Reload' deed would improve Rapid Reload to 'Not an action', and you CAN get an infinite number of those in a round. Thus, if you also throw in the vestigial arm to deal with the 'two hands needed for reloading' issue, that should cover it.


tangent on a RAW source question:
Out of curiousity. Is it actually in the book anywhere about needing two hands to reload and not being able to assume that it's fine without two hands?

I know for PFS they made that rule, but PFS is its own set of house rules. Granted that is a going assumption here on the boards that those rules are valid.
I'm wondering RAW. since in the last RAW game someone got to do double repeating hand crossbows because no one found a RAW statment stating that bit. Since crossbows etc all mention only needing two hands to fire, or fire at a penalty and stat the reloading is a free action.
Ignoring the realism idea (since pathfidner isn't heavily based on realism, though PFS often does).


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On a useful note.
I seem to remember a magical ammo reloading enhancment. I think it was a +2. it costs a ton but might be good for that. Ah here it is endless ammo costy as hell.. that really should just be a +1 or even just a striaght money cost
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Additionallly if you are using normal bolts. Techicnally "abundant ammo" should be able to be casted on the repeating hand crossbow's bolt case. It is a container that holds ammo.
So abundant ammo wand for lower levels can help given the extra time.

Or I think technically could get permancy abundant ammo on the bolt case. Not sure that cost or if pfs
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both cases just lead down to the need to pull the lever.. which maybe you could fluff as jamming the lever of each one agianst eachother to pull them.. It isn't unheard of in the land of fantasy/anime.
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Lastly I think Juggler Bard 2 also gives you a way to reload with the 2 hands full thing. As one crossbow would be in the air when you juggle load.
plus it looks cool. and good if you don't like the extra limb.
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I think 1 in that witch archetype that gives you a hair limb that runs off int (instead of the hex verion)


PSY850 wrote:
I could see 3 hands with the vestigial working back and forth working the crank to keep a pair of repeating crossbows firing. You'd still need to drop or store one to reload the other and then vice versa, but you could get in a round or 2 of looking like a diablo 3 demon hunter =)P

...except with three arms.

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