So I have been looking at the Unchained classes I like the rogue but Im not sure about the others what are the boards thoughts on all four of these classes?
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I love the unchained Monk and Rogue. The are both clear upgraded to the class, although a lot of people are mad about the poor will save on the monk. The Barbarian is competent, although it prevents you gram being a ranged barbarian. The summoner had been corrected in power level, but some of the restrictions on evolutions per subtype don't make sense.
Unchained Summoner is a good fix for a class that's needed some tweaks to things like their spell list for a while now. Unchained Rogue is wonderful, a straight upgrade that should be used by everyone. Unchained Barbarian is mostly unnecessary and loses some of the flavor of the class in an effort to make things 'standardized'. Use the new part of rage that makes the hp gain entirely in the form of temp hp and you're good to go.
Now, the unchained monk cannot be summarized as easily as these other three. It needed a lot of attention to simplify, streamline, and improve its abilities. To Paizo's credit, they did do this in some ways. Giving them full BAB, d10 HD, and proficiency in all monk weapons is a good change and thematically appropriate for a front-line combatant. Plus, Tongue of the Sun and Moon is coming in 4 levels earlier, that's kinda nice. A lot of the new ki powers are neat, too. Flurry of Blows is simple and very effective now. Lastly, Style Strikes, they're great, end of story. So, there's some good in here.
The bad or weird, unfortunately, seems to outweigh the good. Bad Will save progression is now what they get, supposedly balanced out I guess by their high Wisdom mod (theoretically and hopefully), Still Mind (weak and needs to be dropped for monk vows) and a new ability at level 19 that lets them roll twice on a Will save and take the better. Why that's at level 19 and not some other level where it would make a difference, I have no idea. Ki Strike still only gives you the ability to punch through lawful DR as opposed to a useful alignment type, such as the brawler gets. Plus, its functioning at all is tied to that last point of ki in your pool. On the topic of ki, nothing's been done to help them with managing their ki, either. They can meditate for 10 minutes, taking no other action, as part of their capstone now to get back ONE point of ki. That's among the lamest upgrades I've ever seen to a clas. Also on the topic of ki, they removed ki pool's speed boost and AC boost inherent powers, making them things you have to purchase with a ki power now. Which, while these versions are slightly better and you get a whole nine ki powers (not 10 like other classes normally do for some reason), still means somewhat less utility out of the gate than before. Also, ki powers are not all created equal. Quivering Palm is a ki power now, but it's only gotten worse to try and use. Gone is a monk's poison immunity, replaced now with a TERRIBLE new version of Diamond Body that costs ki, costs an action, and only affects one poison in your system. They still get disease immunity, though, so...yay? Ki powers as a whole now make the monk far more reliant in general on expending this resource rather than taking it easier on them, putting even heavily reliance on making Wisdom a top stat in addition to needing good numbers in all their physical ability scores. Which leads us into a whole 'nother problem: nothing was done here to alleviate the problems of a monk's reliance on exorbidantly priced magic items that deliver less bang for the buck than another martial class' might or the over-reliance on ability score boosting magic (items). Nothing has been done to address the over-reliance on amulets of mighty fist if you're not gonna use automatic bonus progression from chapter 4. A point-buy monk is gonna have to agonize over just how badly they want to cheat themselves out of either A) offensive capability, B) defensive capability, C) Fort saves and hit points, or D) everything they get out of Wisdom. To top it all off, Paizo has come out and stated that the unchained monk is, unlike the other three classes featured in this chapter, 100% incompatible with all existing archetypes. That means awesome things like sensei or sohei, master of many styles or zen archer cannot officially work with this new class. So, to summarize, the unchained monk fixed some problems, ignored others entirely, and created a few new ones, I'm presuming under the rationale of 'balance'. For all these reasons, as much as I want to, I can't really cheer for the unchained monk.
I like 90% of Pathfinder Unchained, but that 10% that in the middle of chapter one just irks me in a number of ways. I like the overall concept of the monk enough and can work with the new version and house-rules with our GMs to work in some archetypes to it so that I'll play one. I just really wish that Paizo had been listening to us all this time when they decided what they were going to do to 'fix' the monk. It wasn't that hard with the rogue, that class went nowhere but up, so I have to believe the same was possible here. Why not, I have no idea.
So I have been looking at the Unchained classes I like the rogue but Im not sure about the others what are the boards thoughts on all four of these classes?
Unchained Barbarian is fine by itself, but is a garbled mess when you try to stick any non-Core options onto it, and even a fair number of Core options create gigantic rules snarls with it. I personally hate the class for these very problems it creates (meanwhile I love the basic Barbarian), and don't allow it in my games BECAUSE it creates so many headaches that stop the game dead by trying to figure out the interactions.
Unchained Rogue is Best Rogue, or at least it's a complete replacement for the Core Rogue. I don't even allow Core Rogue anymore because of how underpowered it is compared to the Unchained Rogue (especially since UnRogue is a direct upgrade, and every Archetype and option which worked for the Core Rogue work also works for the UnRogue).
Unchained Monk is a good Alternate Class for the Core Monk. RAW it doesn't work with any of the normal Monk Archetypes; however, Master of Many Styles and a few others SHOULD logically work because they target hard aspects of the class, not abilities which became Ki Powers.
Unchained Summoner is iffy - the majority of people, especially DMs, are actually okay with the redesign because the original Summoner was just insane; it required a LOT of Character Sheet Accounting on the DM's part to make sure players didn't accidentally make uber-Eidolons, and its spell list was so potent that even newbs could make obscenely overpowered characters by accident (vs the 9th-level casters, which can be godawful in a newb's hands).
Then again, some people absolutely despise the nerf, and even people who agreed that the class needed to get hit with the nerf-bat are sore that Eidolon's aren't as amorphic as they had been; meanwhile others (including me) are giddy over the fact that they now can command Demons, Angels, etc.
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I like 90% of Pathfinder Unchained, but that 10% that in the middle of chapter one just irks me in a number of ways. I like the overall concept of the monk enough and can work with the new version and house-rules with our GMs to work in some archetypes to it so that I'll play one. I just really wish that Paizo had been listening to us all this time when they decided what they were going to do to 'fix' the monk. It wasn't that hard with the rogue, that class went nowhere but up, so I have to believe the same was possible here. Why not, I have no idea.
The Monk needed a secondary ability which upped the accuracy of Flurry.
Basically, at lv5, they get a +2 to all Attacks Rolls and +1 to all Damage Rolls when Flurrying. At lv10 and every 5th level thereafter, they gain an additional +1 to Attack and Damage Rolls
That'd basically negate the penalty to Flurry at lv5, and at lv10 (so you'd be going +11/+11/+6/+6), and dealing +2 damage as well.
That alone would have made the Monk a lot more of a beatstick than it currently is, and even more than the Unchained Monk.
Then it could have simply gained Monk Techniques, basically Rogue Talents and sometimes powered by Ki, at lv2, lv4, and every even level thereafter, Advanced Techniques at lv10, and they choose one of several Ultimate Techniques at lv20.
That would have given the Monk a lot more options like they wanted, and it would have left the basic Monk chassis unaltered (and thus would have left all the Monk Archetypes intact).
So I have been looking at the Unchained classes I like the rogue but Im not sure about the others what are the boards thoughts on all four of these classes?Unchained Barbarian is fine by itself, but is a garbled mess when you try to stick any non-Core options onto it, and even a fair number of Core options create gigantic rules snarls with it. I personally hate the class for these very problems it creates (meanwhile I love the basic Barbarian), and don't allow it in my games BECAUSE it creates so many headaches that stop the game dead by trying to figure out the interactions.
Hey, there. Could you elaborate, please? I have been looking for more reviews along this line.
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I like 90% of Pathfinder Unchained, but that 10% that in the middle of chapter one just irks me in a number of ways. I like the overall concept of the monk enough and can work with the new version and house-rules with our GMs to work in some archetypes to it so that I'll play one. I just really wish that Paizo had been listening to us all this time when they decided what they were going to do to 'fix' the monk. It wasn't that hard with the rogue, that class went nowhere but up, so I have to believe the same was possible here. Why not, I have no idea.The Monk needed a secondary ability which upped the accuracy of Flurry.
Basically, at lv5, they get a +2 to all Attacks Rolls and +1 to all Damage Rolls when Flurrying. At lv10 and every 5th level thereafter, they gain an additional +1 to Attack and Damage Rolls
That'd basically negate the penalty to Flurry at lv5, and at lv10 (so you'd be going +11/+11/+6/+6), and dealing +2 damage as well.
That alone would have made the Monk a lot more of a beatstick than it currently is, and even more than the Unchained Monk.
Then it could have simply gained Monk Techniques, basically Rogue Talents and sometimes powered by Ki, at lv2, lv4, and every even level thereafter, Advanced Techniques at lv10, and they choose one of several Ultimate Techniques at lv20.
That would have given the Monk a lot more options like they wanted, and it would have left the basic Monk chassis unaltered (and thus would have left all the Monk Archetypes intact).
It still would have left the biggest problem with the old monk, which was you are only accurate when making a full attack, if you have to move and attack or make an AoO, you suddenly can't hit as well.
Allow the monk old monk an ability similair the Monk of the seven winds. Allow him a free 5foot step every time he lands a hit. If you want to give him a conditional bonus to combat, give him a bonus to hit and damage so long as they keep moving at least 10 ft each round
So I have been looking at the Unchained classes I like the rogue but Im not sure about the others what are the boards thoughts on all four of these classes?
I think all the classes are better, but not necessarily more powerful.
I don't feel that the unchained monk filled the monk niche but it fills the beat stick niche a lot better with less optimization than a chained monk.
So I have been looking at the Unchained classes I like the rogue but Im not sure about the others what are the boards thoughts on all four of these classes?I think all the classes are better, but not necessarily more powerful.
I don't feel that the unchained monk filled the monk niche but it fills the beat stick niche a lot better with less optimization than a chained monk.
My problem with the Unmonk is that there is not a reason for a.regular beatstick like him. We already got the Brawler for that.
What they should have done was something simple like I suggested. Allow them to move 5ft with each hit. As they move, give them a scaling bonus to hit. So as they hit, they move more, which allows them to keep hitting. At higher levels give him an ability to flank with himself if he moves enough (like a non magical Dimensional Dervish). This would give the monk a REAL niche as a truly mobile combatant vs his brawler counter part.
I like the Unchained Rogue, it's a strict improvement to a very weak class, which makes me wish they had released an unchained Fighter.
I like the Unchained Barbarian, it simplifies a few things and makes the rage powers a little bit cooler in my eyes.
I like the Unchained Summoner, it's a lot more thematic and balanced, but I think it could still use a bit of work. (As more eidolin options)
I like the Unchained Monk, but I think it probably deserves to have it's will save back.