Clay golems cursed wound


Rules Questions

Shadow Lodge

So I played a pfs scenario recently with some clay golems in it.

cursed wound:
The damage a clay golem deals doesn't heal naturally and resists magical healing. A character attempting to use magical healing on a creature damaged by a clay golem must succeed on a DC 26 caster level check, or the healing has no effect on the injured creature.

I did some forum searching and all I could find was people agreeing that the ability is poorly worded. I'm wondering what the intent is, and how you would run it versus:
1 (ex) regeneration/fast healing.
2 (su) regeneration/fast healing.
3 lay on hands
4 does it matter if the spell is conjugation healing or not?
5 if it hits a construct can the construct be repaired?
6 if it hits an undead can the undead regain HP from negative energy effects?
7 how about a living creature (ex dhampir) with negative energy affinity?
8 is a creature that is immune to curses immune to this? (The text doesn't actually call it a curse effect, just the name of the ability)
9 if it damages a plant can the plant grow back?
10 if it smashes a wall can the wall be rebuilt by normal labour? (Maybe a bit silly, but I'm curious what the intent of the power is and where the line should be drawn)

And can this be removed by any means other than getting your HP back to full?


(ex) abilities are not magical, and thus are not affected.

(su) abilities are magical and are affected

LoH is a (su) ability.

Conjuration? all that matters is if it's magical; if it's a spell it is magical.

Re repairing: I'd say the construct is affected the same as any other creature.

Undead are (usually) healed by negative energy effects, treat as if positive energy for living creatures

7 same as 6

I rule based on full text, so yes it is a curse. Expect variation.

Plants are objects and specifically ignored by the text; plant creatures would be able to heal the same as anything else (resting for 8-24 hours as an example).

Walls are objects.

As this is a curse effect a "remove curse," or "break enchantment" should do nicely.


I agree with everything above except the ruling that this is a Curse. The ability is called Cursed Wound, but it is not specified as a curse, thus Remove Curse and Break Enchantment wouldn't work to remove it. You would need to overcome the Caster Level DC to repair the damage under all circumstances as that is what the ability specifically states.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
gnoams wrote:

So I played a pfs scenario recently with some clay golems in it.

** spoiler omitted **
I did some forum searching and all I could find was people agreeing that the ability is poorly worded. I'm wondering what the intent is, and how you would run it versus:
1 (ex) regeneration/fast healing.
2 (su) regeneration/fast healing.
3 lay on hands
4 does it matter if the spell is conjugation healing or not?
5 if it hits a construct can the construct be repaired?
6 if it hits an undead can the undead regain HP from negative energy effects?
7 how about a living creature (ex dhampir) with negative energy affinity?
8 is a creature that is immune to curses immune to this? (The text doesn't actually call it a curse effect, just the name of the ability)
9 if it damages a plant can the plant grow back?
10 if it smashes a wall can the wall be rebuilt by normal labour? (Maybe a bit silly, but I'm curious what the intent of the power is and where the line should be drawn)

And can this be removed by any means other than getting your HP back to full?

1.2. it's still magical healing, so neither will work.

3. still magical so no.
4. conjuration, necromantic, still magical either way, so no.
5. presumably.. constructs aren't healed, they're repaired.
6. No because it is not a negative energy effect, it's damage.
7. See 6 above.
8. GM's call on case by case basis.
9. no.
10. yes. a wall is an object not a creature.

It's an effect designed to be used against player characters. It's very clear how it operates in that area, and silly to be talking about anything else. I'm expecting Jeremy Clarkson to come in with a question relating to V8 Motors.

Shadow Lodge

1-2) I believe there was a ruling that regeneration and fast healing are just sped up natural healing, even if they come from a supernatural source, so they wouldn't work at all on a cursed wound.

3) Magical, and I would use paladin level for the caster level check.

4) Nope. If it heals you and it's magical it's magical healing.

5-7) Repair or negative energy effects that restore HP should still be treated as healing.

8) RAW no, RAI probably.

9) A plant creature would be treated just like a living character - it wouldn't regrow/regain HP naturally but could be healed magically with a CL check. RAW a plant that isn't a creature isn't affected because cursed wound refers to an injured creature. I'd probably apply it anyway for thematics.

10) Yes, cursed wound is for creatures and while I'll bend that for a living non-creature plant for thematic reasons there's no reason to do so for a wall.

Lantern Lodge

LazarX wrote:
gnoams wrote:

So I played a pfs scenario recently with some clay golems in it.

** spoiler omitted **
I did some forum searching and all I could find was people agreeing that the ability is poorly worded. I'm wondering what the intent is, and how you would run it versus:
1 (ex) regeneration/fast healing.
2 (su) regeneration/fast healing.

1.2. it's still magical healing, so neither will work.

Extraordinary Abilities (Ex)

Extraordinary abilities are non-magical. They are, however, not something that just anyone can do or even learn to do without extensive training. Effects or areas that suppress or negate magic have no effect on extraordinary abilities.

It could be argued that a (Ex) healing despite being non-magical, would still be considered natural healing, therefore cursed wound would still stop (Ex) healing from functioning, since cursed wound's damage "doesn't heal naturally and resists magical healing".

Shadow Lodge

The reason I included plants and objects is that the ability says damage dealt by a clay golems doesn't heal naturally. So would a plant heal naturally while an animal would not? And then for constructs and undead, is repairing them "healing" or not.
I can see a variety of arguments for this, hence the questions.
Perhaps it inhibits the body's ability to heal. In that case it should affect any living being, but probably not undead or constructs as they don't heal like living creatures. Or maybe it only inhibits healing magic, then fast healing, negative energy healing and the like would bypass it. Or maybe it affects all attempts at repair. And then it should affect everything, including objects.

As for being silly, there are playable constructs (in some campaign settings) and a variety of ways to get negative energy affinity. In the pfs scenario I was playing, my character had fast healing (su) and was healed by negative energy. The GM just made a call and we moved on, but it was definitely a huh, how is that supposed to work moment. Hence this thread.


I suspect that the question you're going to get more table variance on is, if a creature has 1 point of damage from a clay golem and 99 points of damage from other stuff, can the 99 points be healed normally?

RAW, no. "A character attempting to use magical healing on a creature damaged by a clay golem must succeed on a DC 26 caster level check, or the healing has no effect on the injured creature." That sentence has exactly two qualifiers. To injured character, "Is your character damaged by a clay golem?" To healer, "Are you attempting to use magical healing?" Reading text, "A character attempting to use magical healing on a creature damaged by a clay golem must succeed on a DC 26 caster level check, or the healing has no effect on the injured creature."

However, I suspect some GMs would try to break out the damage from the clay golem into a separate category and track it so that magical healing will apply to other damage but not the golem's.


And FYI, healing from negative energy is still magical healing. It comes from a magical effect. When a cleric or oracle channels positive energy, that is magical healing. It doesn't suddenly stop being magical when it's negative energy.

Shadow Lodge

gnoams wrote:

The reason I included plants and objects is that the ability says damage dealt by a clay golems doesn't heal naturally. So would a plant heal naturally while an animal would not? And then for constructs and undead, is repairing them "healing" or not.

I can see a variety of arguments for this, hence the questions.
Perhaps it inhibits the body's ability to heal. In that case it should affect any living being, but probably not undead or constructs as they don't heal like living creatures. Or maybe it only inhibits healing magic, then fast healing, negative energy healing and the like would bypass it. Or maybe it affects all attempts at repair. And then it should affect everything, including objects.

The game draws a distinction between creatures and objects. You need Locate Creature, a 4th level spell, to find a zombie or stone golem or treant, but only Locate Object, a 2nd-3rd level spell, to find a corpse or stone statue or tree.

The curse as written affects creatures. The best explanation is that it attaches itself to an animating force, whether that force is positive energy (life), negative energy (undeath), or whatever anchors the elemental spirit into a golem. Without the animating force, the curse doesn't stick. However once in place the curse prevents all forms of healing/repair.

Shadow Lodge

There is a lot of precedence in pathfinder for abilities to work one way for one type of creatures and differently for other types of creatures. Most effects have exceptions, limited target types, creatures that are immune, etc.
"Magical healing," is not standard defined pathfinder terminology. So it is up for interpretation. It could mean anything that is magic and regains hit points for a thing regardless of the spell's normal function. Or it could mean any healing magic ie magic intended to heal.
Magic fire is not healing magic, but there are creatures that regain HP from fire damage. According to the first interpretation the fire would have to make a CL check to work. According to the second, it wouldn't.
Both ways are valid interpretations from the wording of the ability. I agree with most of the replies here. Any of those make sense and could be the way it is intended to function, but I can't see anything pointing to one being the intended way over another.

As other people pointed out, the ability has two more albatross hanging on it. Does it affect all wounds or just those caused by the golems? And is it a curse and therefore removable by curse breaking magic?

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