Technology in Golarion


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion


I've seen this discussed in the past, but I felt that with fresher material now in the market, it might be time to open up possibilities.

Two nations are known to have more advanced knowledge in science than the rest, specifically when it comes to engineering: Alkenstar and Numeria. Alkenstar develops its own tech traditionally while Numeria scavenges and studies ruined tech. Their very far distances, seclusion, and political climate (specifically in Numeria) mean that expediting advancements in technology would be next to impossible, and magical communication is also made tricky because Alkenstar is in the Mana Wastes.

But let's assume something happened in the next 100 years to change this. Maybe Numeria stops being ruled by the greedy Technic League, its technology becoming available on the open market for other nations to purchase and study or Alkenstar makes a breakthrough in mass production, allowing them to distribute the now-obsolete weaponry while maintaining their advantage with higher-grade stuff (and eventually replacing that, too). Would this lead to a more industrialized Golarion? What would be the challenges faced by it? Would it create new monsters that thrive in this environment? How would people accept it? How would religions accept it? Would magic evolve to adapt and compete with cheaper technology?

I've also read Pure Steam. Wouldn't be hard to see Golarion eventually reach those levels of tech in the future.


Aldrius wrote:

I've seen this discussed in the past, but I felt that with fresher material now in the market, it might be time to open up possibilities.

Two nations are known to have more advanced knowledge in science than the rest, specifically when it comes to engineering: Alkenstar and Numeria. Alkenstar develops its own tech traditionally while Numeria scavenges and studies ruined tech. Their very far distances, seclusion, and political climate (specifically in Numeria) mean that expediting advancements in technology would be next to impossible, and magical communication is also made tricky because Alkenstar is in the Mana Wastes.

But let's assume something happened in the next 100 years to change this. Maybe Numeria stops being ruled by the greedy Technic League, its technology becoming available on the open market for other nations to purchase and study or Alkenstar makes a breakthrough in mass production, allowing them to distribute the now-obsolete weaponry while maintaining their advantage with higher-grade stuff (and eventually replacing that, too). Would this lead to a more industrialized Golarion? What would be the challenges faced by it? Would it create new monsters that thrive in this environment? How would people accept it? How would religions accept it? Would magic evolve to adapt and compete with cheaper technology?

I've also read Pure Steam. Wouldn't be hard to see Golarion eventually reach those levels of tech in the future.

My take is that the Numerian stuff would be super hard for 21st century science to back engineer (nevertheless at Golarion level science), so I don't really think Numeria has the potential to kickstart a technological revolution, outside of maybe demonstrating a few principles.

Alkenstar could definetly jump start a steampunk setting however, since they are self taught.

Paizo Employee

Honestly, I think you'd need another nudge for Alkenstar-level technology to become common and a huge nudge for Numerian technology to expand beyond the occasional weird magical item. I seriously doubt you'd see much technological change in a hundred years.

Alkenstar:
Guns will probably spread some and you'll probably see some people start to make them outside of Alkenstar. I'd expect the Blackjackets in Druma to be early adopters, along with bodyguards in Absalom and Taldor. There might also be government-sponsored groups in Andoran, Cheliax, and Molthune.

I can see Rahadoum being interested as well, as a point of national pride. The Five Kings Mountains might get some too, because dwarves.

But the price and difficulty of use are still huge gaps. If we assume future Alkenstar can produce "simple weapon" firearms and ammo at prices comparable to crossbows, you'll see much wider adoption.

Numeria:
Even with the Technic League helping, there's a very limited ability to produce high-tech items in Numeria. We'd have to assume there's a major production facility the Technic League never uncovered. There may be one at the end of Iron Gods I'm forgetting.

If someone make the few-thousand-year jump in technology and starts producing new labs, that's a vastly different setting. But without that, removing the Technic League just means there are a few more wacky magical items in the world.

So...:
I honestly think the answer to most of your questions is "no." There won't be any great technological revolution in the Inner Sea over the next 100 years.

Eventually, magic will reach the point again where great feats can be accomplished again like Thassilonian monuments and Shory flying cities. More nations are close to that than any are to major technological breakthroughs.

Assuming nobody blows up the world in the next 100 years, I'd expect more and better magic. Higher fantasy or, at most, magicpunk rather than steampunk.

Cheers!
Landon


MMCJawa wrote:

My take is that the Numerian stuff would be super hard for 21st century science to back engineer (nevertheless at Golarion level science), so I don't really think Numeria has the potential to kickstart a technological revolution, outside of maybe demonstrating a few principles.

Alkenstar could definetly jump start a steampunk setting however, since they are self taught.

The thing is also that comparing our people and the people in Golarion, person-for-person, the people in Golarion seem to be ridiculously smarter than us (and stronger, faster, hardier, etc.) and have a means of increasing said intelligence to allow faster research and development. As for motivation, look forward no more than the most infamous of magical practicioners: wizards. Wizards and their curiosity won't ever stop, and a powerful wizard would have the resources, funding, and brains to do proper research. Now if only those pesky Technic League jerks would stop assassinating every non-member that got its hands on Numerian tech...

@Landon: You raise a lot of valid points and by no means am I discounting them. I'd have to say maybe not the next 100. 1000 years maybe? Something should happen then. As far as the competition with magic, there's a wide diversity of peoples and cultures around. Alkenstar's motivated for obvious reasons. Thuvia might be, for the purposes of making better lab equipment (not to mention the advanced meds and drugs, and either moving or supplementing alchemy with more hard science). Any nation that cares about improving the basic standard of living for their people would have enough curiosity to look into it once they hear what tech can do and the price it can do it at.

And of course, there's good ol' fashioned innovation from exceptionally gifted individuals. I can tell you in real life we wouldn't have mass-produced vehicles as soon as we did without Henry Ford or lightbulbs without Nicola Tesla. If Golarion is anything, it's a world -filled- to the brim with uniquely gifted individuals, way more so than us since the relative mortal population is less than our current global pop on Earth.

(As an aside, you never really -hear- about famous scientists anymore, at least outside of their respective circles.)


Technological innovations can leap forward suddenly and unpredictably. Look at our history. Someone takes a chance, makes an innovation or there is a war and a sudden need or perceived need and there can be huge changes very quickly.

It all depends how the GM wants things to play out in the game. Do you want an industrial revolution in Golarion? Go for it. The technology IS there, and there are people who know how to use it. You could posit any number of scenarios. It all depends on how you want things to play out as GM.

Paizo Employee

I agree that on a long enough time scale, we'll start to see some cool stuff. But it's far enough out that not having other world-changing events decided on makes it hard to guess what.

For example, something probably has to be done about the Worldwound in less time than it would take to make a major tech advancement. And who knows what countries like Taldor or Cheliax might look like?

It might be easier to just assume a higher baseline tech rather than following the years forward. If everyone has guns, but Alkenstar has the good ones and Numeria has bespoke laser pistols.

That said, southern Rahadoum would be an amazing place to set up a wind farm, along with Mediogalti Island and the Shackles.

Aldrius wrote:
And of course, there's good ol' fashioned innovation from exceptionally gifted individuals. I can tell you in real life we wouldn't have mass-produced vehicles as soon as we did without Henry Ford or lightbulbs without Nicola Tesla. If Golarion is anything, it's a world -filled- to the brim with uniquely gifted individuals, way more so than us since the relative mortal population is less than our current global pop on Earth.

This actually touches on one of the more interesting reasons for tech not to develop. I'm not trying to argue, it's just something that I think is actually neat.

If we accept technological development is at the hands of the uniquely gifted, every kid with 20 Intelligence that goes to become a wizard or 20 Wisdom who becomes a cleric is one less possible Tesla... or a very different Tesla than what we got.

Most of the time we focus on the needs of the people: they don't need germ theory because they have clerics. But it might be just as true that they don't have the human capital to develop technology, with magical training denying the resources they need.

Cheers!
Landon


Aldrius wrote:
MMCJawa wrote:

My take is that the Numerian stuff would be super hard for 21st century science to back engineer (nevertheless at Golarion level science), so I don't really think Numeria has the potential to kickstart a technological revolution, outside of maybe demonstrating a few principles.

Alkenstar could definetly jump start a steampunk setting however, since they are self taught.

The thing is also that comparing our people and the people in Golarion, person-for-person, the people in Golarion seem to be ridiculously smarter than us (and stronger, faster, hardier, etc.) and have a means of increasing said intelligence to allow faster research and development. As for motivation, look forward no more than the most infamous of magical practicioners: wizards. Wizards and their curiosity won't ever stop, and a powerful wizard would have the resources, funding, and brains to do proper research. Now if only those pesky Technic League jerks would stop assassinating every non-member that got its hands on Numerian tech...

Yeah but that is the thing...those super smart people are becoming magic users, not mundane scientists and inventors. It's hard to move forward mundane engineering and technology when low level magic can do the same thing. That leaves technological development in the hands of those who have no choice, due to unreliability of magic (Alkenstar) or as an eccentric hobby by those who do practice magic, in which case their inventions and products are likely to not receive general interest.


Well if you take individuals like the Technic League and give them 1-2 members who AREN'T ineptly evil and instead actually decently cunning, well you could see a serious change pretty quickly. Especially if they're competently evil and not just competent as ambition tends to drive progress much faster than curiousity.

Imagine an evil Jatembe or Xanderghul, or even Tar-Baphon who stumbled across Silvermount instead of the Cenotaph. What would Numeria look like?

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