Adamantine daggers do what?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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So,.in another thread some.mentioned taking a Ad. dagger and strappin it to a.pole as a trap detector.

So my question:

What other funny, crazy, r creative uses can u think of for our humble friend, the Adamantine Dagger?


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World's best lock pick.


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Best can opener you have ever used lol


A moderately concealable wall opener. An Adamantine dagger probably won't create a passage-sized hole through a wall in reasonable combat time, but it'll still cut through stone like a knife through butter.

Scarab Sages

A delicious treat for your pet rust monster.


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My group jokingly refers to any adamantine hammer or mace as our "master key".


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Pixie, the Leng Queen wrote:
So,.in another thread some.mentioned taking a Ad. dagger and strappin it to a.pole as a trap detector.

Isn't that just an adamantine longspear?


I seem to recall a Knights of the Dinner Table where a character had an adamantine pick they used to short cut through a dungeon so they could take on the boss at full strength.


MeanMutton wrote:
Pixie, the Leng Queen wrote:
So,.in another thread some.mentioned taking a Ad. dagger and strappin it to a.pole as a trap detector.
Isn't that just an adamantine longspear?

yes. but one that Macgyver would be proud to carry.

Scarab Sages

Torbyne wrote:
MeanMutton wrote:
Pixie, the Leng Queen wrote:
So,.in another thread some.mentioned taking a Ad. dagger and strappin it to a.pole as a trap detector.
Isn't that just an adamantine longspear?
yes. but one that Macgyver would be proud to carry.

Technically, it's an improvised longspear, giving you a penalty to attacks unless you have catch off guard, and a x2 crit modifier.

Sovereign Court

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1. Cutting up a tough steak.

2. Leaving creepy/misleading messages on the stone walls for any adventurers who may come after.

The cake is a lie!

The Castle of Argggggggghhh

It's behind you!

What's green as the sky, and it likes pie? Forty Seven and you go to heaven! The lyre and the soap go walking in the moonlight.
etc


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Azraiel wrote:
A moderately concealable wall opener. An Adamantine dagger probably won't create a passage-sized hole through a wall in reasonable combat time, but it'll still cut through stone like a knife through butter.

No, it wont

Ignoring hardness doesn't do anything if the weapon is incapable of damaging the object in the first place.

Scarab Sages

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andreww wrote:
Azraiel wrote:
A moderately concealable wall opener. An Adamantine dagger probably won't create a passage-sized hole through a wall in reasonable combat time, but it'll still cut through stone like a knife through butter.

No, it wont

Ignoring hardness doesn't do anything if the weapon is incapable of damaging the object in the first place.

A dagger is a slashing weapon.


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Imbicatus wrote:
andreww wrote:
Azraiel wrote:
A moderately concealable wall opener. An Adamantine dagger probably won't create a passage-sized hole through a wall in reasonable combat time, but it'll still cut through stone like a knife through butter.

No, it wont

Ignoring hardness doesn't do anything if the weapon is incapable of damaging the object in the first place.

A dagger is a slashing weapon.

Doesn't matter

Quote:
Ineffective Weapons: Certain weapons just can't effectively deal damage to certain objects. For example, a bludgeoning weapon cannot be used to damage a rope. Likewise, most melee weapons have little effect on stone walls and doors, unless they are designed for breaking up stone, such as a pick or hammer

If you want to go dungeon tunnelling bring an adamantine pick or hammer.


Imbicatus wrote:
andreww wrote:


No, it wont

Ignoring hardness doesn't do anything if the weapon is incapable of damaging the object in the first place.

A dagger is a slashing weapon.

I think he is referencing this portion here:

Quote:
Ineffective Weapons: Certain weapons just can't effectively deal damage to certain objects. For example, a bludgeoning weapon cannot be used to damage a rope. Likewise, most melee weapons have little effect on stone walls and doors, unless they are designed for breaking up stone, such as a pick or hammer.

EDIT: ninja'd


Imbicatus wrote:
andreww wrote:
Azraiel wrote:
A moderately concealable wall opener. An Adamantine dagger probably won't create a passage-sized hole through a wall in reasonable combat time, but it'll still cut through stone like a knife through butter.

No, it wont

Ignoring hardness doesn't do anything if the weapon is incapable of damaging the object in the first place.

A dagger is a slashing weapon.

I believe they linked that for the "ineffective weapons":

Ineffective Weapons: Certain weapons just can't effectively deal damage to certain objects. For example, a bludgeoning weapon cannot be used to damage a rope. Likewise, most melee weapons have little effect on stone walls and doors, unless they are designed for breaking up stone, such as a pick or hammer.

Scarab Sages

Eh, Tie it to a stick with the blade perpendicular to the legnth of the stick. Bam, it's an improvised pick.

Dark Archive

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I would argue that an adamantine dagger is not "most melee weapons."


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Misroi wrote:
I would argue that an adamantine dagger is not "most melee weapons."

It is a super expensive and hard to destroy melee weapon.

It wasn't designed to be used on stone walls or the like no matter what materials it is made out of, that doesn't change because of being adamantine.


Imbicatus wrote:
Torbyne wrote:
MeanMutton wrote:
Pixie, the Leng Queen wrote:
So,.in another thread some.mentioned taking a Ad. dagger and strappin it to a.pole as a trap detector.
Isn't that just an adamantine longspear?
yes. but one that Macgyver would be proud to carry.

Technically, it's an improvised longspear, giving you a penalty to attacks unless you have catch off guard, and a x2 crit modifier.

I don't know- if you put in the craft check, it might technically be a real spear.

Doomed Hero wrote:
World's best lock pick.

Bah, you bother with the locks? Amateur.

I always aim for the hinges. Because they are much less likely to be trapped. Alternatively, you could cut the lock out.


Imbicatus wrote:
Eh, Tie it to a stick with the blade perpendicular to the legnth of the stick. Bam, it's an improvised pick.

No, an Improvised Weapon which might use the stats of a pick (and that would be highly debatable as well) or hand axe or anything more appropriate but less useful for what you would like it to be used as.

There is a difference.


Yeah, just get an adamantine light hammer and you're fine for pretty much all your smashing needs.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
The PRD wrote:


Weapons fashioned from adamantine have a natural ability to bypass hardness when sundering weapons or attacking objects, ignoring hardness less than 20 (see Additional Rules).

The Additonal Rules don't specify which items do and do not count for the "Ineffective Weapons," merely giving suggestions, but those "objects" the Rules reference also count walls and doors as "objects," so we have what appears to be a fringe case. We've entered GM fiat territory here, with some GMs (such as myself) ruling that an adamantine dagger would definitely work, some GMs (such as Skylancer, I assume) ruling that it wouldn't, and some GMs falling somewhere in the middle. As always, the best and most complete answer here is "ask your DM."


If you can cut through rock like nothing, why it would be innefective? It's like saying that I can't use a dagger to cut a cardbox wall.


Metal Sonic wrote:
If you can cut through rock like nothing, why it would be innefective? It's like saying that I can't use a dagger to cut a cardbox wall.

Very poor (and very incorrect) analogy.


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Metal Sonic wrote:
If you can cut through rock like nothing, why it would be innefective? It's like saying that I can't use a dagger to cut a cardbox wall.

What is the wall is thicker than your dagger is long?

Just imagine you cut a square shape in the wall for a hole. But the back of the square is still attatched to the wall. How do you remove it? Your dagger isn't long enough to cut back there.

The only thing you could do would be to slowly shave off bits of the wall. Which is something that is on a long enough time scale that you have to worry about "OI MAGGOT! WHAT IN ASMODEUS' NAME ARE YOU DOING TO THE WALL! WHERE DID YA GET DAGGER!". Assuming this is a prison situation. Essentially, it might take days to get far enough into the wall to actually do anything.


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Skylancer4 wrote:
Very poor (and very incorrect) analogy.

I care to disagree.


Metal Sonic wrote:
Skylancer4 wrote:
Very poor (and very incorrect) analogy.
I care to disagree.

I disagree with your disagreement. I think it doesn't get at the heart of the logistical problems here

Basicly- imagine you are trying to dig through soft soil with a spoon. An ADAMANTINE SPOON!

Sure, the soil easily gives way to your hardy metal spoon. But it is a freakin' spoon. You aren't getting much done with it. It is just too small to make much of a dent with each use.

You want something bigger, and more suited for the task. Like an adamantine shovel

Scarab Sages

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lemeres wrote:
Metal Sonic wrote:
If you can cut through rock like nothing, why it would be innefective? It's like saying that I can't use a dagger to cut a cardbox wall.

What is the wall is thicker than your dagger is long?

Just imagine you cut a square shape in the wall for a hole. But the back of the square is still attatched to the wall. How do you remove it? Your dagger isn't long enough to cut back there.

The only thing you could do would be to slowly shave off bits of the wall. Which is something that is on a long enough time scale that you have to worry about "OI MAGGOT! WHAT IN ASMODEUS' NAME ARE YOU DOING TO THE WALL! WHERE DID YA GET DAGGER!". Assuming this is a prison situation. Essentially, it might take days to get far enough into the wall to actually do anything.

If you can dig out of prison with a spoon, imagine how much more quickly you could do it with an adamantine dagger.


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Imbicatus wrote:
If you can dig out of prison with a spoon, imagine how much more quickly you could do it with an adamantine dagger.

Thanks for validating my point.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

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Thought experiment for those discussing the "ineffective weapons" thing:

Okay, so let's suppose that an adamantine dagger is an "ineffective weapon" against a stone dungeon wall, because daggers aren't designed to destroy walls. Thus, the adamantine dagger can't damage the stone wall.

Now, suppose I cast stone shape, replacing a segment of wall with a 3ft-high stone box. It's open on top, with inch-thick sides. The box's sides are still stone walls, but they're thinner than the length of the blade and I can cut down from the top instead of chiseling in from the side. Can the adamantine dagger damage these stone walls, or is it still an "ineffective weapon" because daggers aren't designed for destroying stone walls?

Suppose I cast stone shape again. The box now turns into humanoid figure; basically, a stone scarecrow/training dummy. It's not a wall now, but it's still an object, and made of the same material. Can the adamantine dagger damage it, or is it still an "ineffective weapon" because daggers aren't designed to destroy stone statues?

Now suppose I animate this statue I just made, turning it into some kind of stone golem. It's still made of the same stuff as the stone wall my dagger couldn't scratch, but now it's a creature who happens to have hardness. Can the dagger harm it now, since daggers are designed to hurt creatures?


Imbicatus wrote:
lemeres wrote:
Metal Sonic wrote:
If you can cut through rock like nothing, why it would be innefective? It's like saying that I can't use a dagger to cut a cardbox wall.

What is the wall is thicker than your dagger is long?

Just imagine you cut a square shape in the wall for a hole. But the back of the square is still attatched to the wall. How do you remove it? Your dagger isn't long enough to cut back there.

The only thing you could do would be to slowly shave off bits of the wall. Which is something that is on a long enough time scale that you have to worry about "OI MAGGOT! WHAT IN ASMODEUS' NAME ARE YOU DOING TO THE WALL! WHERE DID YA GET DAGGER!". Assuming this is a prison situation. Essentially, it might take days to get far enough into the wall to actually do anything.

If you can dig out of prison with a spoon, imagine how much more quickly you could do it with an adamantine dagger.

I'd like to see the actual cell/area that was " dug through" as I'm quite sure it isn't all as simple as "LOLspoonedthroughsolidrock" as you are making it out to seem. And you know, everything on the internet is factually true and there are never slightly misleading or overly simplified stories...


I think if you can break out of prison using Salsa I think, I think an admiantiunm dagger can be used to cut it's way through a stone wall. That what the HP of the wall is for based on thickness. That tell you the amount of work that is going to be required.

http://www.cracked.com/article_16945_6-insane-prison-escapes-that-actually- happened.html

Shadow Lodge

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lemeres wrote:
Metal Sonic wrote:
Skylancer4 wrote:
Very poor (and very incorrect) analogy.
I care to disagree.
I disagree with your disagreement.

You disagree that he disagrees?

Shadow Lodge

Azraiel wrote:
A moderately concealable wall opener. An Adamantine dagger probably won't create a passage-sized hole through a wall in reasonable combat time, but it'll still cut through stone like a knife through butter.

Does a sword cut through a 5 foot thick wall of ice like a knife through butter?


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only when heated.


I'd say that while a dagger would not be the best weapon for getting through a stone wall, it would still work. This isn't a tactical exercise - it's something that will take hours to days or longer. I'd say it would take 30-40% longer with a dagger.


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Jiggy wrote:

Thought experiment for those discussing the "ineffective weapons" thing:

Okay, so let's suppose that an adamantine dagger is an "ineffective weapon" against a stone dungeon wall, because daggers aren't designed to destroy walls. Thus, the adamantine dagger can't damage the stone wall.

Now, suppose I cast stone shape, replacing a segment of wall with a 3ft-high stone box. It's open on top, with inch-thick sides. The box's sides are still stone walls, but they're thinner than the length of the blade and I can cut down from the top instead of chiseling in from the side. Can the adamantine dagger damage these stone walls, or is it still an "ineffective weapon" because daggers aren't designed for destroying stone walls?

Suppose I cast stone shape again. The box now turns into humanoid figure; basically, a stone scarecrow/training dummy. It's not a wall now, but it's still an object, and made of the same material. Can the adamantine dagger damage it, or is it still an "ineffective weapon" because daggers aren't designed to destroy stone statues?

Now suppose I animate this statue I just made, turning it into some kind of stone golem. It's still made of the same stuff as the stone wall my dagger couldn't scratch, but now it's a creature who happens to have hardness. Can the dagger harm it now, since daggers are designed to hurt creatures?

Let us take the discussion where it really is headed.

Is paying an additional 3000gp for your weapon, justification for bypassing and trivializing numerous encounters, plot points and various other situations in the game?

My gut is saying no.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Skylancer4 wrote:
Is paying An additional 3000gp justification for bypassing and trivializing numerous encounters, plot points and various other situations in the game?

Yes. It takes far longer to do than a much cheaper scroll of stone shape.

Scarab Sages

TriOmegaZero wrote:
Skylancer4 wrote:
Is paying An additional 3000gp justification for bypassing and trivializing numerous encounters, plot points and various other situations in the game?
Yes. It takes far longer to do than a much cheaper scroll of stone shape.

It's also far noisier. You are able to bypass barriers, but not quickly or quietly, which will give your enemies time to buff themselves and possibly lay an ambush.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

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Skylancer4 wrote:
Is paying an additional 3000gp for your weapon, justification for bypassing and trivializing numerous encounters, plot points and various other situations in the game?

I submit that if "numerous" encounters/plots can be bypassed/trivialized by the ability to cut things, the ability to cut things is not the problem.

Quote:
My gut is saying no.

Guts are no less prone to error than heads are.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Philo Pharynx wrote:
I'd say that while a dagger would not be the best weapon for getting through a stone wall, it would still work. This isn't a tactical exercise - it's something that will take hours to days or longer. I'd say it would take 30-40% longer with a dagger.

The big thing here is the dagger would lose its edge unless it was magical. This happens even with carving knives used on relatively soft items...and stone still has hit points, still has rigidity. YOu can't just 'ram' a knife into a stone wall, the stone doesn't suddenly get out of its way.

You would literally have to shave the stone away, whittle it down, carving tiny little blocks out of it slowly and methodically, all the while it is getting duller and duller.

Also note that sawing through a hinge on a door does not deactivate the traps on the door, and likely sets them off!

==Aelryinth

Shadow Lodge

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I find it amusing how this thread seems to be filled with people who think that when a substance makes contact with another substance that is less hard than it, the less hard substance is instantly annihilated.

If I had a spear made out of diamond, and I threw it at a skyscraper, judging from the comments here, most people would expect it to sail through the skyscraper with barely a loss in momentum.


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Adamantine, getting duller.

Riiiiiiiiight.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Kthulhu wrote:

I find it amusing how this thread seems to be filled with people who think that when a substance makes contact with another substance that is less hard than it, the less hard substance is instantly annihilated.

If I had a spear made out of diamond, and I threw it at a skyscraper, judging from the comments here, most people would expect it to sail through the skyscraper with barely a loss in momentum.

I seem to have missed all those posts that are "filling" this thread. I've seen posts saying that your diamond spear does not forever fail to damage the skyscraper no matter how hard you swing/throw it, and I was just about to make a post poking fun at the suggestion that your diamond spear would get worn smooth as you continued to stab the skyscraper over and over, but I must have missed all these posts saying that it would punch through with barely a loss in momentum.

Can you direct me to the posts that suggested anything remotely like that? Maybe link, say, five of them? I hope I wasn't just blind to miss the posts made by "most people", but I'll give you the chance to show me before I rule out the possibility.


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Jiggy wrote:
Skylancer4 wrote:
Is paying an additional 3000gp for your weapon, justification for bypassing and trivializing numerous encounters, plot points and various other situations in the game?

I submit that if "numerous" encounters/plots can be bypassed/trivialized by the ability to cut things, the ability to cut things is not the problem.

Quote:
My gut is saying no.
Guts are no less prone to error than heads are.

It's also as good an argument as bringing up minutia to prove a point, in a game that typically has to ignore such details in order to function even remotely well.

"I have all these real world possibilities to show how could maybe do it in game!!!"

"Damn shame the game doesn't work like the real world isn't it?"


TriOmegaZero wrote:
Skylancer4 wrote:
Is paying An additional 3000gp justification for bypassing and trivializing numerous encounters, plot points and various other situations in the game?
Yes. It takes far longer to do than a much cheaper scroll of stone shape.

A one time use of stone shape.

Versus the near infinite use of an adamantine weapon.

Anyway, generally, I am not going to argue that a dagger could eventully get through a wall. In a matter of hours, or days. How often you do stop to do a menial task for hours during your dungeon crawls?

But an adamantine warhammer, or pick? Those could get through the wall in minutes.

That is the definition of an 'ineffective weapon'- it might be able to do the job, but on such a long scale that you decide it isn't worth it.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

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Skylancer4 wrote:
"Damn shame the game doesn't work like the real world isn't it?"

Wait, then how did you determine that a dagger was an ineffective weapon against a wall in the first place?

It sounds like you're changing the standards of what it takes for something to work so as to only favor what you already want to be the result, and trying to avoid directly addressing any inconvenient counterpoints.

But I don't want to come to that conclusion prematurely; maybe your posts just look that way by chance. Could you explain your position in a bit more detail? Thanks.


I carve my path with an adamantine toothpick!

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
lemeres wrote:
But an adamantine warhammer, or pick? Those could get through the wall in minutes.

So I guess 3000gp IS justification then?

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