In A World Without Full Casters...


Homebrew and House Rules


I'm in the planning stage of a homebrew world for Pathfinder and was hoping to get some feedback on the rule changes that I will be using.

One of the bigger changes that I want to implementing is the removal of full casters. This is to emphasize the 3/4 casters but also just to create a more "difficult" or martial based world. Will this hurt the players significantly?
Along with this I'm removing Gunslingers for setting reasons.
To somewhat offset this I'll be allowing Variant Multiclassing at no feat cost and will allow the full casters as options for that.

Other rules variants that I'll be using are the following:
-Epic Fantasy Point-Build
-Automatic Bonus Progression
-Stamina and Combat Tricks for Everyone
-Fractional Base Bonuses
-Background Skills

What would be the problems of using this set-up and does the full casters restriction cause too much difficulty?


just a sidenote here:

CurlyInsaneGuy wrote:

-Stamina and Combat Tricks for Everyone

so all of your players will have stamina rules added to all of their feats?

-Have you read that chapter?
because I have the book, and I still haven't been able to finish that ginormus list of added rules for EVERY FEAT EVER WRITTEN ... EVER.

so when you'r players make their characters they will either be laid back: "so I have feat X and feat Y, and oh - they both have the added rules of x1 &x2, more to remember, but it's ok (I hope)"
or if they are the types that plan their characters: "hmm what's the special rule for X? or maybe I'll go with Y *flicks through the book,* nope that doesn't suit my build, let's check out Z *flips again* hmm maybe, what about ...." 2hrs later: "I think this is my starting feat, I just have to check - hey give me back the book! I'm not done!"
(and imagine that times the players)

-maybe an extreme example, but however much I like the idea of the stamina rules, I abhorr the execution.
You might want to reconsider, unless your players are the kind that do lots of homework for their games and have a folder of all relevant feats and rules pertaining their character.
(if they are: Where Did You Find Them?!)


LuxuriantOak wrote:

just a sidenote here:

CurlyInsaneGuy wrote:

-Stamina and Combat Tricks for Everyone

so all of your players will have stamina rules added to all of their feats?

-Have you read that chapter?
because I have the book, and I still haven't been able to finish that ginormus list of added rules for EVERY FEAT EVER WRITTEN ... EVER.

so when you'r players make their characters they will either be laid back: "so I have feat X and feat Y, and oh - they both have the added rules of x1 &x2, more to remember, but it's ok (I hope)"
or if they are the types that plan their characters: "hmm what's the special rule for X? or maybe I'll go with Y *flicks through the book,* nope that doesn't suit my build, let's check out Z *flips again* hmm maybe, what about ...." 2hrs later: "I think this is my starting feat, I just have to check - hey give me back the book! I'm not done!"
(and imagine that times the players)

-maybe an extreme example, but however much I like the idea of the stamina rules, I abhorr the execution.
You might want to reconsider, unless your players are the kind that do lots of homework for their games and have a folder of all relevant feats and rules pertaining their character.
(if they are: Where Did You Find Them?!)

Thanks for the reply!

Hm, it may create a problem for some of the newer players. Most of the veteran players of my group are really good about doing their homework. They all use the PFSRD pretty well when building their characters, and reference it occasionally during actual play. They do tend to be the players that know what they want from the characters and will probably plan around the effects of the stamina rules.

That being said, I'm not sure how ready some of the players are for that huge info dump of feats. I agree that the stamina rules are clunky, but I think some of the effects are pretty fun. I think it's part of the wave of "pools" which seems to be popping up everywhere.


Fullcasters are simply the most powerfull classes. Not having them in a party (because of setting, in this case) just means the party is a bit less powerful then a party with those. But not terribly so.

How good the system mastery of the players is has a much bigger impact on combat performance then which classes they picked.


There are a few things to think about regarding spell lists. Certain effects just CANNOT be easily undone.

You may want to allow something like circle magic, so that enough low-level inquisitors could whip up a 'restoration' spell by working in unison.

Otherwise, the balance of the game changes significantly at higher levels, when you need a 10th level bard to break an enchantment, and there's literally no one who can raise the dead.

As a result, things like save or die effects from monsters are CONSIDERABLY more brutal. Use enemies like bodaks with caution.


At low levels, there's almost no change.

You do need to watch for conditions that are hard to remedy. Blindness is one. Without full casters, only paladins and alchemists can deal with this.

Healing can be an issue, depending on which way the casters go.

Toward the high end, you'll have some issues because you won't have the big spells, and less of the moderate spells. Where a normal party teleports everywhere and then can do mass fly, you have much more limited options without this.

Are you limiting full casters for the enemies too?


Sounds fun. Hunters all around! :)


Hunters and Inquisitors. Teamwork feats for everybody!

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

You want to be looking at Monte Cook's Iron Kingdoms if you want a mastercraft version of such a world.


LazarX wrote:
You want to be looking at Monte Cook's Iron Kingdoms if you want a mastercraft version of such a world.

I think you meant Iron Heroes. Iron Kingdoms had plenty of magic.


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I just using Spheres of Power now. It's a WAY BETTER magic system, both in fluff and crunch.


Metal Sonic wrote:
I just using Spheres of Power now. It's a WAY BETTER magic system, both in fluff and crunch.

Spheres of Power also addresses the "hard to remove bad status effects without full casters" thing. Healing Sphere's design is amazing.

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