I'm still not certain you can hit up Occultist either, due to the weird way the generation of their spell list works.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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I'm actually really curious why you had all of that. Were you an Eldritch Knight of some kind?
and also can find an ice sculpture of said creature..
Half Elf Lunar Oracle Ancient Lorekeeper with Dreamed Secrets.
All the good spells from Cleric and Wizard spell list.The game just about ended when I started doing simulacrum. I had to tone that down because the whole table basically said "what use do we have if he can create an infinite army of ancient red dragons.
I'm actually really curious why you had all of that. Were you an Eldritch Knight of some kind?
and also can find an ice sculpture of said creature..
Half Elf Lunar Oracle Ancient Lorekeeper with Dreamed Secrets.
All the good spells from Cleric and Wizard spell list.The game just about ended when I started doing simulacrum. I had to tone that down because the whole table basically said "what use do we have if he can create an infinite army of ancient red dragons.
Wouldn't you be level 16 by the time this came online? That sounds about right for casters starting to hit the point where they just take over the game.
What level did you start at? I can't imagine playing from level 1 with 14 strength as an Oracle even, unless I rolled stats and had some weird results.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Wouldn't you be level 16 by the time this came online?
What level did you start at? I can't imagine playing from level 1 with 14 strength as an Oracle even, unless I rolled stats and had some weird results.
For me yes, but if I knew about doing it samsaran I'd have built differently ;-)
Level 1. Just finished RotRL. 28 months
Huh. Well good for you for playing the long game I suppose.
I still don't think adding spells to a class early works, though I suppose someone could use the Summoner list to add Simulacrum at level 5 if they were both arcane and didn't have it already.
Edit: And, also, what I think doesn't matter too much unless its my game, hence the desire for a clarification, even though I suspect the final answer will not be something I enjoy.
I think if the spell is already on your spell list, you can't use Samsaran to get early access, because you can't "add" something you already have.
I think it needs a FAQ/Errata to shut down early access shenanigans (for cases where it is not already on your list). It would be pretty simple to say you must use the spell level designation of the class MOST CLOSE to your own re: spellcasting progression (i.e. 4/6/9 spell level).
If it's a Ranger only spell, then a Cleric would get the 'benefit' of low level from that, but if it's also a Druid spell, then a Cleric would use the Druid spell level because Druid casting is closest to Cleric in terms of spell level. If multiple valid classes that are equally close to your own spellcasting progression both have the spell at different spell levels, then you can go ahead and take benefit of the lowest spell level amongst those.
Not sure if it should only base spell level off of "correct type" (arcane/divine/psychic) classes, or off ALL class spell lists... I.e. if you are a Cleric and the spell is on Ranger and Wizard, would you use Ranger (as only divine class that has the spell) or Wizard (as closest to your own casting progression... even though if it was ONLY a Wizard spell and not also a Ranger spell, you couldn't take it because it wouldn't be the "right type"). That would seem to more strongly prevent early access shenanigans, but feels a bit more unwieldy.
I don't see any reason why Psychic is not a valid spellcasting type, and don't see any reason Paizo would prevent Psychic casters from working with Samasarans' ability... Especially as Samsarans vibe seems rather mystical and occult to begin with.
Occultist IS interesting, and honestly I think the Samsaran thing CAN work for them both for Samsaran Occultists drawing from OTHER classes (not really problematic or different than how Samsarans' ability works with normal casters), but even for Samsaran Psychics/etc drawing FROM Occultist (Implement) Spell Lists. You can't usually draw from bonus spells ala Domains or Archetypes with different spell lists, but this is different, it is not bonus or archetype modifications to base list, the base list does not exist without these modular Implement spell lists, thus I would more consider each Implement it's own valid class spell list.
I hit FAQ.
Thank you for the detailed response.
I think the "Closest Spellcasting Progression Class" solution can easily get a little unwieldly, but it also keeps most everything in check without punishing people. Psychic, after all, wouldn't have any lists to pull from if it could only use other full progression psychic classes.
So that has my vote of support. Its a smart solution.
There is also the argument that the feature does nothing at all for psychic classes.
"The spells must be the same type (arcane or divine) as the spellcasting class you're adding them to."
It should extend to psychic spells, but it could be said it doesn't by strict RAW.
It would be a weak arguement. Everyone knows it was made before Pyschic classes existed. Hence the question being asked because we want to know if this can be errata'd to include these new spell casting classes.
so why not petition the officials and get a clear answerI'm sorry. I wasn't saying "don't hope for this." I was more saying, don't play if you don't get an official without being prepared to play a pregen as you say.
There are a very small percentage of issues that get FAQ treatment. We are still waiting for promised errata/faq on Overrun from 2009. Currently from experience, I'd strongly recommend not playing any character that focuses on Overrun. You won't have a good time.
Paizo can't pay a damn intern to set outlook meetings with people for 15 mins a day to go over questions?
Just lazy on paizo part that's all. They don't really care, they got their money already so why care about answering questions.
I think if the spell is already on your spell list, you can't use Samsaran to get early access, because you can't "add" something you already have.
I agree with that.
I think it needs a FAQ/Errata to shut down early access shenanigans (for cases where it is not already on your list). It would be pretty simple to say you must use the spell level designation of the class MOST CLOSE to your own re: spellcasting progression (i.e. 4/6/9 spell level).
If it's a Ranger only spell, then a Cleric would get the 'benefit' of low level from that, but if it's also a Druid spell, then a Cleric would use the Druid spell level because Druid casting is closest to Cleric in terms of spell level. If multiple valid classes that are equally close to your own spellcasting progression both have the spell at different spell levels, then you can go ahead and take benefit of the lowest spell level amongst those.
OK, the entry reads:
Mystic Past Life (Su) You can add spells from another spellcasting class to the spell list of your current spellcasting class...
The significance of this has, I believe, been overlooked in the discussion of other issues; it does not say 'you can add spells from other classes', only from another class.
In other words, you pick another class - one that uses the same spell types as your own - and then add spells from that class list to your own.
So a Cleric could pick Ranger spells, gaining all the benefits of any low levels with those, but they would not get any druid-only spells; or they could pick Druid spells but would not get any ranger spells; etc.
This is my reading of it, and it seems a more balanced approach than arbitrarily trying to assign a 'nearness factor'; after all the idea is that you had a past life as e.g. a ranger and some of that has leaked through, not that you had a 'generic divine past life granting you potential access to all and every divine spell.'
I have to say I love this mechanic and while there may be some ways of abusing it, there is usually a way to abuse most interesting mechanics, but people rarely do it even if they know it can be done. There will always be those who seek to abuse the system and there will always be ways for them to do so; eliminating a mechanic just because it can be abused by some extreme builds seems a bit like overkill.
So a Cleric could pick Ranger spells, gaining all the benefits of any low levels with those, but they would not get any druid-only spells; or they could pick Druid spells but would not get any ranger spells; etc.
Then you remember you could just pick hunter and then it's not an issue of either ranger or druid spell lists.
Not that I think it's required to limit it to 1 class though. It doesn't say 'from a one other spellcasting class'. "Another spellcasting class" isn't in itself clearly singular.
Overkill is a wizard or cleric or any full spellcaster casting dominate monster at level 11 or summer monster 7 at level 9.
Also, 'another spellcasting class' is clearly singular, I wasn't aware of anyone interpreting it as allowing to pick multiple spells from multiple lists. '0ther spellcasting classes' would be a plural formation.
Also, 'another spellcasting class' is clearly singular, I wasn't aware of anyone interpreting it as allowing to pick multiple spells from multiple lists. '0ther spellcasting classes' would be a plural formation.
And 'from one other spellcasting class' would be clearly from a singular class. The way it's is in print is neither, hence 'isn't in itself clearly singular'.
All 'another spellcasting class' means is a spell list other than your own. No inference there that it means anything other than making a pick from outside your own class with the statement. Nothing points to 'another spellcasting class' being a single pick for the ability vs a pick per spell. IE; if I pick one spell from wizard, it's from 'another spellcasting class'. Then if I pick a bard spell, that too is from a 'another spellcasting class'. 'another spellcasting class' doesn't have to mean singular for the ability as a whole. The ability NEVER clearly states you pick one class only for the spell picks.
So a Cleric could pick Ranger spells, gaining all the benefits of any low levels with those, but they would not get any druid-only spells; or they could pick Druid spells but would not get any ranger spells; etc.Then you remember you could just pick hunter and then it's not an issue of either ranger or druid spell lists.
Not that I think it's required to limit it to 1 class though. It doesn't say 'from a one other spellcasting class'. "Another spellcasting class" isn't in itself clearly singular.
And 'from one other spellcasting class' would be clearly from a singular class. The way it's is in print is neither, hence 'isn't in itself clearly singular'.
"another" implies singularity as it literally means "one other"
an indeterminate form should be written as "other spellcasting classes"