Fear the Walking Dead


Television

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Scarab Sages

Didn't look like there was a thread for the new series yet, sooooo....

New spinoff of a highly successful series. So you've got good name recognition....and that's about it.

Some thoughts....

Spoiler:

You can't "fear" something that's hardly ever seen. While I understand this is the beginning of the zombiepocalypse, if they want to keep viewership up, they need to get some more walkers in there.

The opening scene in the church was very well done. It reminded me of the opening scene in the parent series, right up until that last bit where he gets hit by the car, people swarm in, and the camera pans up to the teeming city...

That being said, I find the drug addict character to be pathetic and unlikable. Although he did show a gleam of potential in the tunnel at the end. For now, however, I'm still hoping he gets eaten.

Same for his parents and sister (as far as the gets eaten goes). The sister I found to be annoyingly self-centered, and your typical obnoxious high school student. The step-father was kind of ok, until he went into the known drug den where people may or may not have been eaten by himself and unarmed instead of calling the police and reporting a potential murder. How f$!+ing stupid can you get? The mom- I was completely indifferent, not caring whether she lives or dies.

The same is true for most of the other, peripheral characters they showed. Principle of the school - meh. Step-dad's ex-wife and son - meh. Daughter's boyfriend - actually, I kind of liked him, and look forward to seeing the daughter's horror when she finds him in an undead state.

In the end, I had almost no empathy for any of the characters. Maybe it was the acting? Andrew Lincoln and Lennie James, two of the first people introduced in the parent series, are wonderful actors. I found myself sympathizing with them from the start. Not so these people.

They did make sure, it seems, to include as many Hollywood clichés as possible: The broken (but mixed) family, the drug addict, the daughter who's really smart and pretty, the teacher who CARES SO MUCH, the poor outsider geek student who KNOWS WHAT'S REALLY GOING ON!!!

I do think the show has potential, but they've got to find a good rate of acceleration in the breakdown of society and rise of the new world order.

Plus, it's L.A. Does anyone really care whether it get's eaten or not?


... food a la carte on the hoof. Nums.


I usually agree with you Aberzombie (even though you are a cowboys fan (or are you a Texans fan?) but I thought the acting was decent. Certainly not bad, or even subpar. I think the teenage girl was extremely believable and the writers are going out of their way to be super inclusive of people who haven't watch TWD and might not want to start since its 5 seasons in already.

Basically the scene where the Dad is talking about "Nature always wins" and "Building a fire to live" and the "States of Brain" and "Chaos theory" classes are all just foreshadowing what is to come for new viewers.

I didn't like the dad and then dad/mom going to the Shooter Church, seemed dumb, and that isn't TWD way. That was the only thing in the pilot I didn't like.

Sovereign Court

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The characters are stereotypes, but most of TWD characters are stereotypes to begin with. Also, these people are stupid, and one hopes they won't all make it. If anything, the annoying drug addict may make the most sense.

The initial POV characters shouldn't be ultra marine wunderkind survivalists, or where is the challenge.

I'm probably being prejudice, but I suspect the denizens of rural Georgia are more capable of surviving. Plus, the L.A. area is the most populous urban area in the U.S., so think how many walkers (they aren't calling them walkers) there will be.

Scarab Sages

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GM Niles wrote:
.......even though you are a cowboys fan (or are you a Texans fan?....

Congratulations on moving to the top of the To-Be-Devoured-in-the-Zombiepocalypse-First List! A member of The Horde's Welcoming Committee will be stopping by your house soon with your Starter Kit and Official "Fodder for the First Wave" T-shirt.

Scarab Sages

tumbler wrote:
If anything, the annoying drug addict may make the most sense.

Indeed. My brother and I discussed the show briefly this morning and agreed that his whacked out point of view does fit the story pretty well in these opening episodes.

tumbler wrote:
Plus, the L.A. area is the most populous urban area in the U.S., so think how many walkers (they aren't calling them walkers) there will be.

This is something I was thinking about.

Spoiler:
Considering the number of people in L.A., and the all ready established fact that everyone is already infected, even if you just had 100 deaths a day in the city (between illness, accident, old age, or murder), and if just one quarter those deaths resulted in one immediate, secondary death from zombie, you'd be adding 125 zombies a day. At that rate, and considering the rate of continued secondary infection minus zombie's killed, you'd still likely have thousands of zombies in just a week or two.

So, with any luck, we'll be seeing these poor bastards up to their elbows in zombies within a few episodes.


erm, the Big Apple has a good 4.5 million more Horde members waiting to happen than Lost Angles, more or less. Or is a larger geographic area under consideration?


I wonder what that population growth looks like. Is it nicely exponential?

If a single Zombie kills someone, they probably can't eat enough to keep that victim from rising. Sometimes, though, a horde will eat a victim enough that it can't rise.

Plus, I guess we don't know how quickly the initial affliction kills people, or if we do I can't remember.


Brother Faust the Elder wrote:
erm, the Big Apple has a good 4.5 million more Horde members waiting to happen than Lost Angles, more or less. Or is a larger geographic area under consideration?

What is known as the Greater Los Angeles Metropolitan Area, which includes lots of adjacent areas, is the most populous metro area. That isn't the same as the L.A. Statistical area, which is one census area.

New York Metro is much more dense, but Greater L.A. Cheats by having a lot more area.


Also, I guess this is before the worst of the drought, but most of L.A. water comes from really far away.


That would still be wrong if you use 2014 estimated Metropolitan Statistical Areas.

I guess it depends on where the stats are pulled from. <grin>

I'm curious is all.

Edit: Ah, I find that one is referencing a 5-county Combined Statistical Area. Which is strange, as one source cites L.A. as the largest yet the second one directly linkied cites the NYC CSA as the largest.

Interestingly, where the Washington D.C. area falls in the ranks depends on which set one examines. In the first, it places 7th. In the second, it places 4th. Either way, traffic sucks. ;)


I was thinking of Los Angeles and San Diego as one metro area, which they aren't officially. Los Angeles likes to think of it that way, which puts them close to New York's census figures. In any case, so many more people than Atlanta and rural Georgia.

Also tons of military in San Diego. Wonder if we will see any of that.


Good question regarding the military elements, which is true of most major cities, especially the port cities. That kind of stuff can get pricey for a TV show, so who knows.

The one downside in this scenario is that the military doesn't seem to be set up for dealing with 6+ million hostile infantry that aren't uniformed on an impromptu defensive basis. There's no signal intelligence. It just ... happens. A big problem is the infiltration ... a few "infections" in-base and aboard ships can go south all kinds of fast. It'll be interesting if they touch on that. I don't think that they will, not in a concerted fashion, at least.

Edit: Just finished watching the premier via DVR. The military is present in the preview snippet at the conclusion.

Personally, I expect that the starting characters won't survive, excepting maybe the junkie-kid IF the DT's don't waste him first.

Scarab Sages

tumbler wrote:

I wonder what that population growth looks like. Is it nicely exponential?

If a single Zombie kills someone, they probably can't eat enough to keep that victim from rising. Sometimes, though, a horde will eat a victim enough that it can't rise.

Plus, I guess we don't know how quickly the initial affliction kills people, or if we do I can't remember.

I'm sure someone could rough out some math to get a likely number. There are a lot of variables you'd have to assume: number of people who die in a given day, how many of those deaths occur without head trauma, how many zombies are destroyed per day, how many people they bite, how many who are bitten actually turn, etc....

Scarab Sages

And then there's the break down in society: the criminal element rising, survival mode kicking in, collapse of emergency services (and the chaos of things like raging fires), collapse of basic utilities, collateral damage from battles between law enforcement/military/criminals/civilians/undead. That's just short term.

Long term there should be starvation, disease, death from predation (by zombies or living), mass damage from fires, explosions...

When everything is taken into account, it's very easy to see how a major city could go belly up, leaving nothing but pockets of survivors.


Aberzombie wrote:


When everything is taken into account, it's very easy to see how a major city could go belly up, leaving nothing but pockets of survivors.

I think that is what Season 1 is gonna show!


"3 Days to Chaos" ... ;)


I suspect in this situation that the local level organization of gangs and organized crime could be more effective than local government and the military.


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The reactions of the gangs and other organized crime groups would be fascinating to see explored in the show.

Scarab Sages

Well, I think that was an improvement....

Spoiler:
Travis is quickly growing on me. He's smart, and had the right idea off the bat - get the f~&! out of the city. Not to mention, he's one of the few actors I actually recognize.

Junkie has also grown on me - the dude seems to realize the serious s%&$ coming down better than most. However, I think his addiction will end up either getting him killed, or getting someone he cares for killed and then he turns over a new leaf and becomes a badass.

Mom was acting like an idiot, but seeing her take down principle walker gives me some hope that she could become a Carol type survivor.

Daughter - f+$#, would someone just eat her already. Same with that little "I know what's coming because I'm a geek" geek from the highschool. Ye gods, I just want that little turd to die.

Barber shop dude is Reuben Blades! Woot! Let's hope he fares better than he did in Predator 2. His wife is pretty f!##ed, though. Same as Travis' Ex. She's Horde Food. The son may have a chance, but I'm hoping he buys it, mostly because he came across as a little punk to me.

You can see the acceleration beginning. The power flickering. More walkers appearing. People getting attacked. Riots. Fires. And it only looks to get worse, really fast.

Some nice touches: Mom hearing the metal detector go off as she and pizza face were trying to get out with the food. Neighbor getting chowed down on near the end. The luggage and open door at the Boyfriend’s house. Poor mom and dad are probably being chewed on by sonny-boy.

Either way, I’ll definitely watch at least one more episode.

Scarab Sages

One other thing I've been ruminating over....

I have yet to hear anyone on the new show provide a name to the undead. I doubt they'll use Walkers, although you never know. Another name used in the parent show was 'biters'.

Who knows? Maybe they'll go ahead and just use 'zombie'.


I doubt they use the Z word. I liked in this episode how they've used the LAPD's somewhat checkered history as a plot point. Everyone is so quick to protest what they see as "police brutality" they aren't paying attention to the larger problem.

Do you think the show runners will explain how/why the powers that be aren't doing anything proactive or letting the public know?


TWD mentioned a number of monikers for the necrotically resuscitated. Walkers, biters and roamers, among others, going on memory.

As far as the powers-that-be, without having yet seen episode 2, I suspect "damage control" is the mindset of the governing entities. The one kid that attempted to sneak a knife past the metal detector noted that five states were already exhibiting signs of trouble on day 1, with episode 1 ending IIRC on day 3...


I was under the assumption that the "troubles" started earlier than Episode 1...perhaps a week or so before. I'm tempted to say you are correct though Turin, I think its a "We don't know what the hell is causing it and we don't have a good plan" but I mean...why the silence?

I'm very interested to see the episodes that feature the military trying to "take back" LA, and see what explanations are given.

I'm enjoying this series almost as much as TWD to be honest.


GM Niles wrote:

I was under the assumption that the "troubles" started earlier than Episode 1...perhaps a week or so before. I'm tempted to say you are correct though Turin, I think its a "We don't know what the hell is causing it and we don't have a good plan" but I mean...why the silence?

I'm very interested to see the episodes that feature the military trying to "take back" LA, and see what explanations are given.

I'm enjoying this series almost as much as TWD to be honest.

Depending on the developers' take on Uncle Sam, I'm guessing there's a combination of jurisdictional conflict going on behind the curtain. If there's a view that it is an epidemic, the CDC and FEMA are the primary 'handlers' of the situation. Neither come across as very fond of sharing information that could cause widespread panic that would, from their view, spread the contagion further ... and more importantly out of their ability to contain.

That it has spread / emerged in at least five states - and that those five states hadn't been named in episode 0.1 - leaves a tangly bit out there. If those five states are contiguous, it's one thing. If they're geographically separated, that's another matter that may be getting less attention from On High.

Given the CDC's HQ location is in the vicinity of Atlanta, I suspect that a 'patient' or fifty was transported to the CDC ginorma-lab there for further study and got out of hand PDQ.

Scarab Sages

And let's not forget, from Season 1 of Walking Dead's visit to the CDC - They knew everyone was already infected. The question is, when did they know? Did the CDC/Feds figure it out rather quickly and try to keep a lid on it for some reason, or did the CDC suspect something, but only confirm after most of the country had gone to s#@! and communications collapsed?


GM Niles wrote:

I was under the assumption that the "troubles" started earlier than Episode 1...perhaps a week or so before. I'm tempted to say you are correct though Turin, I think its a "We don't know what the hell is causing it and we don't have a good plan" but I mean...why the silence?

I'm very interested to see the episodes that feature the military trying to "take back" LA, and see what explanations are given.

I'm enjoying this series almost as much as TWD to be honest.

The pilot is pretty clear that something has been going on long enough that plenty of people know. They just don't know what. When Madison goes into school, there's talk about how many kids are out with the flu, or rather "the flu". It's referenced as though everybody knows about it and this has been the case for a while, albeit in increasing numbers. I'd peg it at a week to two weeks for internet rumors that this is more than a bad disease to go from crazy paranoid internet to marginally sane internet, possibly longer. Then another day or two for the viral video those girls were watching to go around.

By the end of this week's episode, we see people getting the hint that there's a real disaster coming. It doesn't seem like the panic has hit yet, but people in the know (Our Heroes. That cop Travis saw stocking up.) are acting accordingly.

I'm sure they'll never tell us, but I suspect Rick was awake at the beginning of last episode and in hospital before the middle of this one.


How long was Rick in his coma? Did we ever find that out? 1-2 weeks?

Because if so...then things went south really fast.


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GM Niles wrote:

How long was Rick in his coma? Did we ever find that out? 1-2 weeks?

Because if so...then things went south really fast.

The original source material lists that he was out about a month, although the TV series has been more vague (6 weeks I think is mentioned).


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GM Niles wrote:

How long was Rick in his coma? Did we ever find that out? 1-2 weeks?

Because if so...then things went south really fast.

The timeline here suggests a bit over 50 days. Not all of that time was unattended, but it seems like he laid there on his own for a good long while. He also recovered remarkably well for a guy who should have more than a month of muscle atrophy.

Rapid collapse is a genre convention the show seems keen on. Part of what interests me about FWD is seeing how well they can sell that. I'd probably keep watching just for the characters (and I watch The Walking Dead for that) but I'm very curious to see how much thought went into the end of civilization.


I'm with you Samnell, I'm interested in how it all falls apart...not that we will get the full picture because this IS a show about characters and not the big picture.


That was a long day 3 / 17 (episode 0.2) for the protagonists.

Tobias clearly has a clue - whether or not he will adapt fast enough to survive remains to be seen of course.

Rick from TWD I'd guess went under either this day or the next day.

When the communication and power infrastructure fall apart, everything else goes with it in short order from what I can tell. Things shrink, rapidly ... and that's on a good day.

With so much interconnectivity relying on an almost-entirely civilian-maintained power grid, a pretty rapid collapse is the likely result.

"3 Days to Chaos" or "7 Days to Chaos". Something a few 'federally employed' people I know reference disturbingly often the past several years. If something can disrupt just enough of the primary infrastructure for 7 days, especially something that has such a rapid progression ...

That a pretty large number of incubating Horde members have been scattering to the further out areas is going to make things very bad for the protagonists.

It will be interesting.


One of the more disturbing things I learned when visiting Honolulu, was that if there were to be a break down in transportation to the island, it would be completely out of food (including local natural resources) in six days


Too many mouths to feed on too small (and unvaried) a local food supply. At least they can fish in Hawaii. Whether or not enough people know how is another matter. Honolulu would be a mess ...

Scarab Sages

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Turin the Mad wrote:

Tobias clearly has a clue - whether or not he will adapt fast enough to survive remains to be seen of course.

Ye gods, I hope not. I found him to be at least two annoying clichés (the one paranoid guy who knows what's REALLY going on and the nerdy outsider who's smarter than EVERYONE else), as well a deus ex machina just waiting to happen.

If they have mercy on us, we'll just never see him again. If the writer's really like us, they'll show him getting buried under an avalanche of walkers.


Aberzombie wrote:
Turin the Mad wrote:

Tobias clearly has a clue - whether or not he will adapt fast enough to survive remains to be seen of course.

Ye gods, I hope not. I found him to be at least two annoying clichés (the one paranoid guy who knows what's REALLY going on and the nerdy outsider who's smarter than EVERYONE else), as well a deus ex machina just waiting to happen.

If they have mercy on us, we'll just never see him again. If the writer's really like us, they'll show him getting buried under an avalanche of walkers.

I'd prefer to see him getting eaten alive. He's in poor shape. While he has an idea of what's going on, he only *just* found out how hard a zombie is to kill. No one has yet figured out what it is going to take to not be ringing chow-bells with every mundane activity that we're used to doing. Lights. Firearms. Shouting ...


Yeah I found him to be pretty cliche also... I'm fine with him showing up in season 2 as a walker, with his little knife in his hand.


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Aberzombie just wants to see EVERYONE join the zombie hoard and he is mad that someone is on to his antics. He is just such a Grimm person with a Tale to tell.


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I hope all the characters in this show die. Is that bad? I wonder if that was intended. Dislike them all.

Also don't like that all the characters that have seen zombies don't tell anyone else. Seriously WTF. Or that you couldn't figure out how to kill them after looking at 2 different clips on social media. Duh.

Also don't understand what took the Mom so long at school. OK she loaded some food for the little annoying kid. First of all, why, second how long could that have taken? And why the hell wouldn't she go out of buy an axe after killing the principal?

Having said that, I'm enjoying the stupidity of it all, but I wish the characters were a little smarter. The scariest movies are when the characters do what you would have done... and are still screwed.


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She killed someone (well, that's what she thinks.) It was up close, personal, and someone that she knew and liked. That's called emotional trauma. That she's not thinking like a gamer playing a survival horror game is fine with me. Kudos to her for still being able to keep it together for her family as much as she has thus far.


Jason S wrote:
I hope all the characters in this show die. Is that bad? I wonder if that was intended. Dislike them all.

I like all of them, though I confess I'm probably not fond enough of Madison considering she's the lead. She feels a little too generic mother figure for me.

I'm not a typical zombie fan, though. I honestly find the genre itself mostly nauseating rather than interesting. I watch The Walking Dead entirely because I like the characters, getting into it far more through Glenn, Carl, and Carol than Rick. The latter is so much a typical zombie survivalist fantasy protagonist that he nearly killed the show for me and actually did kill it for a friend I tried to introduce it to.


FtWD the only characters I kind-of like are the ones that should be getting chow-pounced. Right now, I'm most enjoying watching civilization crumble and seeing a spin on 7 days to chaos more than any of the characters. I'm wondering what the pool is on the daughter and if she's good for it.

TWD I've gotten to like the ones that keep getting killed off (the creepy girl, most of the antagonists that aren't Horde members, Darryl's brother). Going into season 6 of TWD I'm not sure whom I care for at the moment. Carl needs some serious development for me to feel all that much for.


You will never get me, Aberzombie! NEVER!!!


Carol, you should definitely enjoy Carol and her weird I'm a mom but I'm really a crazy witch, routine.

I also like Abraham...


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I think the glut of survival horror games and zombie fan clubs have altered people's perceptions of the genre. Now anyone acting like a real person at all is seen as stupid, and anyone acting like a psychopath(i.e. treating this like a video game or movie) is seen as rational.


^ what that guy said.


Freehold DM wrote:
I think the glut of survival horror games and zombie fan clubs have altered people's perceptions of the genre. Now anyone acting like a real person at all is seen as stupid, and anyone acting like a psychopath(i.e. treating this like a video game or movie) is seen as rational.

You are acting crazy!!! You must have been turned! Get him!


To be fair, in TWD's current timeline, anyone still acting like we do pre-zompocalypse probably is insane. ;)


Aberzombie wrote:

One other thing I've been ruminating over....

I have yet to hear anyone on the new show provide a name to the undead. I doubt they'll use Walkers, although you never know. Another name used in the parent show was 'biters'.

Who knows? Maybe they'll go ahead and just use 'zombie'.

Infected.

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