Hey folks,
We've got a session coming up in a couple of days and have to deal with a wierd darkness combat. We have time to prep and 5kish funds and are level 5. The party will be a cleric, barbarian, druid, ranger and a master summoner. All have darkvision.
Here's the situation:
My untethered eidolon was out scouting when he was suddenly enveloped in a cloud of darkness and then attacked many times for minor damage and serious strength damage. I then unsummoned him. The cloud of darkness rolled out into a long hallway and right over a zone of Daylight (cl5), which had no effect on the darkness, despite our darkvision. The darkness didn't penetrate a door and didn't block sound.
We fled after the sounds of something chopping at the door. We couldn't get any information on the darkness via checks like Spellcraft.
My meta-suspicion is that there were monsters inside a heightened Deeper Darkness. We have fought an undead before that attacked similarly but without the darkness.
Assuming that we cannot predict what level of darkness effect is in place and thus cannot simply prepare a light spell of sufficient level, how would you creatively deal with this darkness?
It must be thoroughly defanged, as we will travel though this area often.
I am considering echolocation on the Druid and Elixir's of Darksight, but the latter will fail if this isn't a deeper darkness spell effect.
If it is a darkness-effect with monsters hiding in it try throwing AOE-Effects into it. Firebal, Lightningbolt are possible at level 5 if you have a Wizard or Witch. Alchemists Fire and Alchemical Acid canbe thrown by everyone. Pouring out barrels of lamp oil, perhaps throwing some directly into it with force, so that they break apart upon impact and douse everything inside , then throw a lit torch into it. Doesnt matter that the torch doesnt illuminate anything, it just needs to start the conflagration.
On the magical side, try Glitterdust. Depending of what kind of Darkness-Effect it is the hidden monsters might be outlined.
On the mechanical side, if the terrain permits, box it in with a Wall-on-Rolls like contraption. Works best if its a long hallway. Just push the (somewhat) moveable wall through it and squish the hiding monsters against a wall.
A Monsta-Squishin' Rolling Wall (tm) is a really fun idea!
Sounds like Vashta Nerada. Is your DM a fan of Doctor Who?
If it is Vashta Nerada, then your best bet would be AoE damage.
MY ELEMENTALS HAVE TREMORSENSE?! (I am the master summoner)
*mild rant* No matter how much time I put into this game, I never seem to catch all of the details. It is frustrating. *rant done*
So yeah, that's a big deal and I cannot believe I missed it.
The DM is a fan of Dr. Who. hmmmmm...
A knowledge(dungeoneering) check should be able to let you know if it's something like a Vashta Nerada swarm.
Since you're 5th level, there is also a good chance it's this:
Lampadarius
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Get cleric to prepare obscuring mist, so everyone fights blind. Try to get the cleric to take heighten spell for heightened continual flame, to be used at lv 7. Daylight negates effect of darkness spwlls that are lower or equal spell level(NOT caster level), so either GM is ruling it wrong, daylight shoyld have worked, or its really heightened deeper darkness.
Hmmm...we didn't try knowledge dungeoneering. I'm concerned that I have to be getting chewed on by whatever it may be to check it, but perhaps with some earth elementals, I can scout it out.
DM's call on that. I tried daylight and it failed, so I'm skeptical about buring resources now for a better light spell, not knowing if it's a DD effect. I like options that work around all darkness effects.
Well the first step is to tell us how your party is comprised. Additionally you mentioned buying an elixir so I am assuming you left, went to town and are now plotting the return siege. is this accurate?
@Use: the party's description is in the 1st post: MSummoner, Hangover Evangelist, DR Barbarian, Undead specialist Ranger, Savant Druid.
We are currently fleeing back to town. I'm assuming we're going to make it in several days, then return.
@Imbicatus: No saves at all.
Looking through my summons, dretches can at least see whatever is in the darkness, but can't communicate back. Several monsters can pinpoint, although they'll be at 50% miss if it's actual enemies in there. I would rest and go right back at what's in there, but it did strength damage, which ruins any tank fast. There were many attacks.
Imbicatus, the idea of a ring of summoning affinity did cross my mind, but I lose a ton of efficiency at level 3 summons and they are very expensive rings for our current poverty.
@Kender: a 9th level continual flame casting would be Caster Level x spell level x 10, so mimimum 18x9x10 + 50 = 1,670gp. This assumes that I can find an 18th level wizard who is willing to trade his time for 2k gp.
Else, we'll have to put a request out on the outer planes, and that get's very pricey.
It is affordable, but not cheap and if the darkness isn't RAW, it's a fancy lightbulb for a DV party.
Ah, sorry about that. missed the first sentence. Yeah I was going to suggest the same thing as kenderkin (though 5th lvl will surfice. 9th level wizard * 5th lvl spell is only 450. Tack on material components and you are out 500gp). Cast it on a burned out ioun stone and you don't even need hands to wield it.
Umm Dretches don't get the see in darkness ability, so I assume you are talking about the lemure (who can't report back due to lack of int score). Still a pretty good option in this instance, specially if you get a scroll of deathward cast on them by the party cleric (dr5 + immune to negative energy str damage should make them all but invulnerable) and weapons against evil will allow them to bypass DR. Getting the cleric a couple scrolls of deathward could also protect your party. As for your spells, I suggest summon pit the moving mass and wail on them with spells at your leisure. As far as offense goes: summon swarm bats should be your go to. Blindsense means auto target, swarm means auto hit, and wounding means that if they fail the save they will be dead by morning (unless they have regeneration which unfortunately melkiador's linked creature does).
@Use: I did mean the Lemures. I feel like a casting of deathward is best used on the barbarian, who can them trash the targets (assuming there are targets) at leisure despite the miss chance. The summons aren't strong enough to warrant 500gp of spells on them, and their DR5 makes them largely immune to being strength drained by a low damage/high drain rider attack.
As an update, I feel like missed effects on my summons will answer the question quickly as to whether there are monsters in the darkness or not.
what monsters are there, and how to kill them, is another story. If there was a way to give the barbarian resistance to the drain and auto pinpointing right now, I'd be in favor of heading back in without returning to town. Without these options, I feel like it's a 12 day trek to and from town for enhanced light, echolocation and deathward type options.
The wall sled idea is very creative and we might be able to try it right away.
As well, I am legitimately temped to nova out all of the Earth elementals I can and have them try to grapple down any targets in teams before we flee, or just try to beat them to death. If I have 7 or more SLA's, I'll probably do it.
Sadly, Echolocation is a Personal/You spell. Only the druid can be affected by a scroll of it. Whirlwind velociraptor druid monster of death is a legitimate possibility after we go back to town. We have a lot of buff spells.
My goal now is to evaluate whether we can not go back to town and win. 12 days of travel is a lot of time to get murdered.
My first step is going to be sending earth elementals back into the dungeon to try to tell me if there are monsters in the darkness. If there are, and they can give me a fixed number, I'll consider hiding, resting and trying a nova strike. 1d3+1 x9 elementals is a lot.
If no elementals come back, or they can't pinpoint monsters, I don't see how we can engage it without town resources and not risk PCs. there are just so many horrible effects monsters have.
For example, the last monster we fought that did hp and str damage was a Black Skeleton. 3 or 4 of those in permanent darkness is a bit awful.
The session is Monday. I'll totally post an update.
Session Update: so we got punished very badly.
Instead of going back to town, we snuck into a room for building coffins and stole wall making supplies. We haphazardly built a sliding defensive wall and reengaged the darkness blind, but with spears from a distance. I used elementals to pinpoint enemies who tried to knock over the wall, while beefy party members braced the wall.
It was very effective and the creatures in the darkness (confirmed at least 3) retreated around a corner. Go Adventurers!
Unfortunately, someone in the darkness also ran for help, and the party was ambushed on the other side of the wall by a BBEG skeleton AntiPaladin and a Babau.
We got mashed with most of the party getting instantly feared (DC21) and shredded while they ran for their lives. A clutch save by the Druid followed by a Stone Call got us away out a side passage into the Underdark.
Here's what we know:
The creatures in the darkness do damage, strength damage and have a fear aura that affects creatures with low HD with panic and high HD with -2 to stuff. There are at least 3. The darkness is permanent and moves with them.
The BBEG is an skeleton warrior of some kind and an Antipaladin. He has a powerful fear aura (DC 21), channels negative energy with a LOT of dice and hits like a truck with a two handed sword.
Our party is going to take a player vote to see if we retreat 12 days to the nearest town or try to fight again after resting.
Advice?
The creatures sound a lot like Lampadarius as mentioned above.
I'd retreat to town to stock up on Remove Fear Potions. Chug them before you engage the next time. With these high DC's the fear-effects are really really nasty.
Also have your party caster(s) memorize it if the can, to reactively help a feared companion.
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I'd retreat to town to stock up on Remove Fear Potions. Chug them before you engage the next time. With these high DC's the fear-effects are really really nasty.
Also have your party caster(s) memorize it if the can, to reactively help a feared companion.
The Anti-paladin Aura of Cowardice makes the remove fear option less useful, because it suppresses immunity to fear. Throwing that on a Skeleton Warrior with a fear aura is a nasty combo.
Keep in mind folks, we are only 5th level.
The anti-paladin played out as "You may leave this time, but NEVER come back."
Since we intend to come back, there are now overlapping threats of great magnitude, and I'm not sure how to deal with them one at a time, as they are all mobile. There's going to have to be a lot of reshaping the battlefield.
The darkness is permanent, not duration limited imo. We have meddled with it for hours at a time. The source of the darkness has largely stayed hidden about 45-60 feet away form us around stone corners, so I haven't been able to get a detect magic ping on it, which takes 3 rounds.
These enemies are fighting very intelligently, moreso than any I have ever faced in game. They have substantial terrain advantages against our archery, are sabotaging doors and locks, and have a threat matrix that includes 2 very deadly BBEGs.
Remove Fear doesnt make you immune to fear. It "attacks" the fear effect itself by suppressing it for the duration, if you got that effect before having Remove Fear cast on you. (the reactive use). You can get feared again after you drank your Potion just like regular.
Proactive it gives a +4 more bonus against fear-saves, which is unconditional.
Aura of Cowardice doesnt interact with any of these effects.
We desperately need reactive fear suppression. The +4 bonus was made pointless by the Anti-Paladin's -4 penalty. We actually had a Paladin with us and washed the penalty, right as the Paladin failed his fear save.
For specifics, we have 7 characters available to play with 6 players. Only 4 showed up and we are allowed only 1 NPC, so we ran, "Barbarian, Summoner, Druid, Ranger, Paladin". The extra barbarian and the cleric went into the NPC bag.
The dual fear auras will basically mandate a cleric next time, in addition to the DR we need to overcome.