Calistrian afterlife and Anti-paladins


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

I don't see a problem anti-paladins going to Calistria's domain. That domain is probably larger than most planets...plenty of room for CE worshippers, who probably are preventing from leaving that domain.

I think the issue with "one step removed" worshippers is that while a lot of them are probably fine, they are far enough removed from the core tenants of the religion that they suffer a greater risk of failing to live to there god's standards and not going to the appropriate afterlife.

I just personally feel really sorry for the CN worshippers of Nocticula myself.


UnArcaneElection wrote:
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

Maybe they don't know or care where they'll go in the afterlife. Some evil wizards even sell their souls for extra juice in their current mortal form. Maybe Calistria gives them perks here in the mortal life and they full know where they'll end up and embrace that?

I'm loathe to use real life examples, but has the threat "You'll go to Hell if you keep sinning" worked for everyone so far? Do you think every criminal or CEO of dubious ethics *always* worry about their afterlife when making life decisions?
{. . .}

At least some of them are probably banking (and in some cases I DO MEAN BANKING) on getting at least a middle management job in Hell/Abaddon/Abyss.

Of course they know where they'll go. That's common knowledge in Golarion. Evil wizards sell their souls and rarely plan on actually dying. Lichdom is a thing. Or just skipping the process and going for the demonic ritual to turn into a demon before death.

And real life has the rather major difference of there being no evidence for an afterlife, karma, reincarnation or deities, unlike it being an indisputable fact in Golarion.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber

Antipaladins probably rise fast from the lower demon piles...


UnArcaneElection wrote:

^This points out something messed up: Why is it that Calistria, Gorum, Norgorber, and Milani (at least) can have realms that are significantly off (in some cases by more than 1 step) from their alignment, but any worshipper of theirs who is likewise off in alignment is considered a candidate for Groetus feed?

First of all where do you get that worshippers that are off in alignment is a a candidate for Groetus feed?

Secondly, yeah deities having domains in planes that are different than their alignment is problematic.
Calistria and Gorum both being CN deities (albeit with evil tendencies) having domains in Elysium (one step away) is because (in my opinion) both of them are non evil civilized human deities and couldn't/shouldn't have their domains in Maelstorm. (i personally disagree with that thinking but that's the only reason i can think).
Norgorber, a NE deity having a domain in Axis (two steps away) is very weird but then again the reason for that is another part of the mystery that is Norgorber.
Milani, a CG deity having a domain in Axis (three steps away!!!) doesn't make any sense; sure i get it, it was Aroden's domain and she seized it, what doesn't make any sense is how and why the other deities that make Axis their home haven't "evicted" Milani yet.

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

There's a place in Pharasma's realm for false souls (i.e. people that are not of the same alignment as the god they worship)

This is the first time i hear about false souls, where can i read more about them?

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber

Great Beyond, Boneyard section


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My Great Beyond book isn't handy, but I'm pretty sure false souls are defined as "failed to follow their deity's tenants" rather than "not the same alignment as their deity."

The latter could conceivably lead to the former, but not required.

It's also worth noting that The River of Souls articles from book 6 of Mummy's Mask provides significantly more information about the souls in Pharasma's Court.

Failed souls are those that either died before they could reasonably have a chance to develop a moral outlook (alignment), or those who somehow managed go through life while failing to do so.

Dissident souls, often those of agnostics or atheists, are those who respond to the Outer Planes with outright rejection.

Both dissident souls and failed souls do not become petitioners and remain in the Graveyard of Souls in the Boneyard.

The Groteus article mentions that he is repelled by the "crystallized souls of true atheists."

I suspect a "false soul" - a false worshiper of a god - doesn't actually cut it with Groteus, and those are instead sent on to alignment appropriate planes.

So a false worshiper of Norgorbor may go to Abaddon instead of Norgorbor's realm in Axis.

@ Leo - And Nethys is a neutral deity who maintains a realm in the Maelstrom.

And Zon-Kuthon's realm isn't even in the Outer Planes; he's chilling on the Plane of Shadow.

(And Desna's got a secondary realm on Elysium, but her primary realm is actually in a star on the Prime Material plane.)

Hah, and then there's the dwarves. Torag (LG) and most of the dwarven pantehon (mix of LG, NG, and LN) maintain a realm together in Heaven.

While Droskar is a neutral evil god with mostly lawful evil followers (the duergar) who maintains a realm in the Abyss.

Honestly, I find the various plane v. realm alignment mismatches pretty entertaining, and it's something that gives some insight on the God - even if plane X is the actual match, the god prefers the locality of Y.

And now I've thought of why Milani might still be in Axis - she's there explicitly to BE an anomaly. In Elysium, there's no tyranny to be opposing.

But in Axis? She's the Goddess of Sticking It To The Man, and she's in Axis to Stick It To The Man.

Amusingly enough, her realm's in Axis, but it's outside the city walls. So she's both in Axis and not really in Axis.

Hmmm, sort of like how Urgathoa's realm is practically some sort of no-daemons-past-this-line quarantine zone on Abaddon....

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber
Zhangar wrote:
It's also worth noting that The River of Souls articles from book 6 of Mummy's Mask provides significantly more information about the souls in Pharasma's Court.

Thank you Sir... buying it now...

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber
Zhangar wrote:
Failed souls are those that either died before they could reasonably have a chance to develop a moral outlook (alignment), or those who somehow managed go through life while failing to do so.

I would be interested to know what happens to souls who gain the following Mythic power:

Beyond Morality (Ex): You have no alignment. You can become a member of any class, even one with an alignment requirement, and can never lose your membership because of a change in alignment. If you violate the code of ethics of any of your classes, you might still lose access to certain features of such classes, subject to GM discretion. Attempts to detect your alignment don't return any results. If a class restricts you from casting spells with an alignment descriptor, you can cast such spells without restrictions or repercussions. If you're the target of a spell or effect that is based on alignment, you're treated as the most favorable alignment when determining the spell's effect on you. Any effects that alter alignment have no effect on you. If you lose this effect, you revert to your previous alignment.


Pharasma looks over your deeds and figures out which plane you'd be the least headache in.

(Or offers reincarnation.)


Would 'Pharasma's judgement' count as an effect? In that case, it's whichever is most favorable to you. Which I'm guessing means you get to choose your plane?

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber

Yes! :)


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I choose the demi-plane of chocolate and banana pudding!

Liberty's Edge

I've long ago gotten over my annoyance with the realms of deities being in 'mismatched' planes. They're GODS, they can put down roots wherever they want, really, so long as there's reason in their minds.

As to their personal realms, consider; it is the realm of a deity. The God defines and wills the borders into existence. If Calistria has Antipaladins in Elysium... that's a problem. But, technically, she doesn't. She has them in her realm. Due to the nature of the plane, as someone else pointed out, this realm of hers could be light-years long/wide and would fit just fine within Elysium.

The Outer Planes don't have as finite borders as planets, and to define them as such is almost missing the point, imho. These are places where mortals from anywhere on the prime material, that's billions upon billions, can and have come to claim their reward/punishment. Not to mention the unfathomable amount of creatures that were just ... made from the plane. To have that much room and still have room for more and STILL house OTHER realms... is not something the mortal mind can really comprehend. One portion of a plane could be the size of a galaxy and we'd have no way of really knowing.

I am willing to be proven wrong! But that's always been my take on the planes; this unfathomable place of infinite wonder and terror, even in the good realms, because we cannot know them.


leo1925 wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:

^This points out something messed up: Why is it that Calistria, Gorum, Norgorber, and Milani (at least) can have realms that are significantly off (in some cases by more than 1 step) from their alignment, but any worshipper of theirs who is likewise off in alignment is considered a candidate for Groetus feed?

First of all where do you get that worshippers that are off in alignment is a a candidate for Groetus feed?

{. . .}

It was at least in some James Jacobs posts (although good luck finding which ones) . . . .

Grand Lodge

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Technically she doesn't have Antipalidens in her realm, as the dead shed those mortal concerns behind them. I wouldn't be surprised that the petitioner doesn't transfer alignment upon arrival to Calista's realm.

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