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Lava Lash
Aura faint evocation; CL 3rd
Slot none; Price 16,800 gp Weight 2 lbs.
Description
This black stone ingot is formed from lumpy, solidified lava and sharp obsidian. It is rough and warm to the touch, but it is not hot enough to damage its wielder. When held, the shaft begins to glow cherry-red from the inside. The fiery glow leaks out through the obsidian spurs in the lumpy stone. On command, a fifteen foot long braid of fire and molten stone erupts from one end of the handle. The lava lash functions as a whip.
Attacks made with the lash are melee touch attacks. The lash deals 1d8 points of fire damage on a hit, but does not add the wielder’s strength modifier. If a creature is subject to a successful combat maneuver made using the lash, they must make a DC 15 reflex save or catch on fire as per the burn universal monster rule, taking 1d8 fire damage each round for 1d4 rounds.
The lash has four daily charges. As a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity, the wielder can expend one charge to strike an object or creature within 50 feet with a long, thin tendril of lava from the lash. This use functions as the touch of combustion spell, with a save DC of 15. The lava lash can also shed normal light on command in a 40-foot radius as long as it has at least one charge remaining.
Construction
Requirements Craft Magic Arms and Armor, elemental touch or flame blade, touch of combustion; Cost 8,400 gp
You whipped my whip, so good luck!
I could tell you were an excellent writer through your play-by-post games. So I'm not surprised to find you in the top 32.
Congratulations, Brian!
The game just doesn't seem complete without a lava whip, so way to take away the balor's favorite toy and give us something new to play with! I can picture at least two characters I would want to see wielding one of these, which is a sign of a great idea.
Can't wait to see what you cook up for round 2!
Never saw this one. It feels like something that should exist in the game world, a very natural part of a fantasy game. Kudos on finding something that feels so right for the game but doesn't exist already.
The mechanics seem solid. Well thought out. I like the little bit about serving as a light source, that shows you imagined the item thoroughly. Price is in line with its power.
I feel like the description is maybe a bit off. "Ingot" doesn't feel like the right word. I wonder too about wielding something that's got sharp obsidian edges without getting hurt. Minor concerns, though, overall it's a solid item.
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Never saw this one. It feels like something that should exist in the game world, a very natural part of a fantasy game. Kudos on finding something that feels so right for the game but doesn't exist already.
The mechanics seem solid. Well thought out. I like the little bit about serving as a light source, that shows you imagined the item thoroughly. Price is in line with its power.
I feel like the description is maybe a bit off. "Ingot" doesn't feel like the right word. I wonder too about wielding something that's got sharp obsidian edges without getting hurt. Minor concerns, though, overall it's a solid item.
I originally had the word ingot as rod, but I didn't want to create any confusion that it was a rod and not a weapon, so I busted out the thesaurus. Ingot is a synonym for rod. Perhaps not the best word choice, but it fits with the molten ore/rock theme.
A whip made of lava? Very cool! I like the bonus effect with combat maneuvers. I look forward to seeing what you come up with for the map round. Good luck in the rest of the competition!
Welcome to the Top 32, Brian! Your submission has overcome the magic item horde and the many culls to emerge at the top of the heap. Congratulations!
I'll be one of the judges for this first round, offering my humble commentary which I hope will be helpful to you moving into Round 2. I will be considering each item based on three factors: functionality (does the item fill a useful niche within the rules?), mojo ("wow" factor--would I point out this item to someone else, or immediately get some cool concept to go with it?), and writing (is the formatting and text clear and error free? Is the prose interesting and evocative?)
Combining these elements successfully is, I feel, key to defining that elusive "Superstar" quality that we all want to see.
So you know what I'm looking for, now let's move on to the good bit: your lava lash!
Functionality and Usefulness
You picked the right weapon type. There's hardly anything for whip aficionados out there. It's a good niche, and while the fire-based, Balor-reminiscent approach isn't unexpected, I can't say it isn't solid.
The base damage is pretty high for a whip, especially factoring in the potential for burn damage and itstouch of combustion. It's understandable for the level range this would be at, but I think I'd rather see a higher save DC for the burn and focus on making combat maneuvers rather than striking with it.
The save DC for touch of combustion might be too low for the price point, too. As it stands, I'm not sure the whip's abilities would go off as often as they should. Having two different options helps, though.
The Cool Factor/Mojo
Love whips, love fire whip.
The burn effect on a successful combat maneuver goes well with the "whip's on fire" theme and touch of combustion gives it some more oomph. They tie in well, and adding a light effect dependent on keeping a charge is a welcome addition.
It shows some creative spark for sure, but the burn effect and the charges are the most interesting things here.
Prose and Editing
The description opener is quite long, but it is interesting and evocative enough I almost didn't notice.
There are a few issues with the rules language: italicize lava lash in text, capitalize Reflex save, capitalize ability score names (Strength), instead of "make" a save use "must succeed at a Reflex save (DC XX)", and put the save DCs for spells in parenthesis next to the spell name. That's all stuff that can be learned, but start mastering it now.
Overall
Your writing is obviously good and you're willing to work with one of the underdogs of the weapon category. You took a few bold swings here, so keep that up. You made a very effective weapon with a superglued theme, and I've no doubt there's a lot of growth potential here. Study how the rules texts are put together for style to help master phrasing.
I am honored to have been allowed to provide feedback this year. I look forward to your entry for Round 2, Brian, and will enjoy seeing a map with your evocative imagery and attention to thematic elements.
Congratulations again!
Congrats, Brian! Looking forward to seeing your Round 2 entry.
Welcome to the Top 32, Brian! Your submission has overcome the magic item horde and the many culls to emerge at the top of the heap. Congratulations!
I'll be one of the judges for this first round, offering my humble commentary which I hope will be helpful to you moving into Round 2. I will be considering each item based on three factors: functionality (does the item fill a useful niche within the rules?), mojo ("wow" factor--would I point out this item to someone else, or immediately get some cool concept to go with it?), and writing (is the formatting and text clear and error free? Is the prose interesting and evocative?)
Combining these elements successfully is, I feel, key to defining that elusive "Superstar" quality that we all want to see.
So you know what I'm looking for, now let's move on to the good bit: your lava lash!
Functionality and Usefulness
You picked the right weapon type. There's hardly anything for whip aficionados out there. It's a good niche, and while the fire-based, Balor-reminiscent approach isn't unexpected, I can't say it isn't solid.The base damage is pretty high for a whip, especially factoring in the potential for burn damage and itstouch of combustion. It's understandable for the level range this would be at, but I think I'd rather see a higher save DC for the burn and focus on making combat maneuvers rather than striking with it.
The save DC for touch of combustion might be too low for the price point, too. As it stands, I'm not sure the whip's abilities would go off as often as they should. Having two different options helps, though.
The Cool Factor/Mojo
Love whips, love fire whip.The burn effect on a successful combat maneuver goes well with the "whip's on fire" theme and touch of combustion gives it some more oomph. They tie in well, and adding a light effect dependent on keeping a charge is a welcome addition.
It shows some creative spark for sure, but the burn effect and the charges are the most...
Thanks for the feedback, it's helpful.
I too was concerned about the low save DCs, but as I understand it magic items usually go with the minimum ability score needed for a spell. That would have worked out to DC 13s...so I already felt a bit risque upping it to 15 without any rules back up for that decision.
Is there a source I could reference for the proper formatting of rules text, ala an MLA style guide? Or do I have to glean the arcana myself from deconstructing rule book text?
Thanks again, Victoria :)
Star Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9
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I like this weapon, though it uses far too many suggestive words IMO ;-)
I enjoyed its primary function, but felt the latter abilities made it a bit of a SAK (especially the light function, which I felt was not needed). Still, a very solid item with a strong visual.
Looking forward to your map now :-)
Congrat on making the Top 32!
I like this weapon. It simply does everything you want a flaming whip to do. The mechanical are well thought out and executed. Its definitely something you need to build a character around to use correctly, but its fun enough to make that a possibility.
I found it very odd that this doesn't do what every other magic item in the game does and say that it is/acts like a magic version of a certain weapon. I would much rather have it act as a +1 flaming whip, and then add on your other effects. You saying it functions as a whip, then going on to explain they are melee touch attacks that deal fire and don't add strength are contradictory statements. I would have built it on a magical whip as a chassis, then added on those rider effects that you did quite well on. The current way is confusing and a bit self contradictory, and leaves me wondering how it interacts with all the other whip based feats and rules. Overall I like it, and what it was trying to do, but think it would need to be rework fairly heavily.
I'm excited to see what you can do with your map.
Best of luck in all future rounds!
I will be starting my reviews soon, and they can be bumpy at times, so here's a starter for 10 on Template ...
You nailed it!
Wow, I really can't spot anything obvious, I am sure I am missing something... nope, nothing on initial scan - perfect template execution - well done.
*A tear of hunger crawls down Fu's sad face... he leaves for the next item whimpering with hunger pangs...*
Full review to follow in due course.
As promised yesterday, the GB&U this year is courtesy of me rather than GM_solsprial (he is busy drawing furiously). So without further ado, our amazing and awesome top 32+4 get the first set of The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly critiques, and then on to everyone else who requested a critique in the CMI official thread, or in my shiny The GB&U Season 9 thread.
Lava Lash
The Good: Whips are under appreciated IMO, so kudos for going a less than common route. Also flaming trip, yes please.
The Bad: There is a certain evil critter who as I recall uses a whip very similar to this, in the worlds most well known TTRPG, and in a certain movie with a wizard and some halflings. Fall a bit close to home for my tastes.
The Ugly: There weapon does not have an enhancement bonus,and is called out as functioning AS a whip, but is not actually noted AS one, aka "this +1 whip etc etc". Sort of straddles a strange line between magic weapon and wondrous item to me.
Lava Lash
Congrulations Brian!
I feel that fiery whips have been done before, so it had a somewhat uphill battle from me. I was glad this was clearly different from the balor's weapon of choice (I had to check). Specifically; the damage die and exclusion of strength showed a designer's effort. Burn is a nice touch, better than flaming weapon IMHO (like I said: been done before). Activating the rod to get the lava, makes it wondrous in my book, but I don't think that a game breaker. The SiC at the end was probably my biggest hang-up. Touch of combustion can spread to other creatures which normally counts the caster since it is a touch attack, in trying to avoid exactly duplicating the spell I felt it not only drops a balancing factor, but broke it. Switching 50 ft. to 15 ft. would have sufficed (and matches the whip theme as well).
Still this weapon lived up to its name and is evocative.
Well done & good luck in the maps!
To address my thinking on some of the critiques above:
First the whip needing to be activated was meant to be the equivalent of sheathing it. Who wants to wrap lava around their waste or other body parts? Perhaps the verbiage could be improved, but the intent was not that it required an action to be activated, just "drawn" and "sheathed" verbally. In my mind that is just more cool than having a leather whip that turns into lava when you start using it or whatever the alternative would be.
I specifically did not want to make the whip a "+1 whip" that does other stuff. I realize that is normally how magic weapons work. I wanted to make something new. The only question in my mind at first was does it bypass DR/Magic? But, upon further consideration, I realized that since it only does fire damage that's a moot point. Removing its ability to do physical damage removes the need for it to be +1 X Y Z whip. In all other ways except the damage it does, it functions as a normal, non-magical whip. Is this somewhat outside the normal magic weapon structure? Yes. Is it interesting and new? I think so. The lava lash serves a different function than a normal magical whip. It's for those hard to hit enemies, enemies with DR, those weak to fire or just when you need to burn something down. A +1 flaming whip cannot do any of those things well. Further, the underpinning rules are nothing new, they have been embedded in the flame blade spell for years. I'm just trying to make that hotness accessible to more than just the party druid/shaman.
Further, it is the perfect excuse for your bard to invent the song Fire in Golarion! :P
To address my thinking on some of the critiques above:
First the whip needing to be activated was meant to be the equivalent of sheathing it. Who wants to wrap lava around their waste or other body parts? Perhaps the verbiage could be improved, but the intent was not that it required an action to be activated, just "drawn" and "sheathed" verbally. In my mind that is just more cool than having a leather whip that turns into lava when you start using it or whatever the alternative would be.
I specifically did not want to make the whip a "+1 whip" that does other stuff. I realize that is normally how magic weapons work. I wanted to make something new. The only question in my mind at first was does it bypass DR/Magic? But, upon further consideration, I realized that since it only does fire damage that's a moot point. Removing its ability to do physical damage removes the need for it to be +1 X Y Z whip. In all other ways except the damage it does, it functions as a normal, non-magical whip. Is this somewhat outside the normal magic weapon structure? Yes. Is it interesting and new? I think so. The lava lash serves a different function than a normal magical whip. It's for those hard to hit enemies, enemies with DR, those weak to fire or just when you need to burn something down. A +1 flaming whip cannot do any of those things well. Further, the underpinning rules are nothing new, they have been embedded in the flame blade spell for years. I'm just trying to make that hotness accessible to more than just the party druid/shaman.
Further, it is the perfect excuse for your bard to invent the song Fire in Golarion! :P
(0_0) The pressure must be getting to me. I started two sentences in a row with further. (~_~)*
Okay now that we have a few days before Top 16 reveals I've decided to comment on my competitors work. First, congrats one being a people's choice top 36. To me connecting more directly with the pathfinder community as an audience is even more impressive then clicking for a group of judges.
I liked this but didn't love it. I think Jeff hit the button that bugged em it reminded me too much of the balrogg weapon but it has merit and it deserves to be here. Best of luck moving forward
Marathon Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9
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I really like that you nixed Strength damage for this using flame blade as an example, otherwise this would have been too much. I still worry a little about having at will touch attacks (especially when nothing stops someone from adding power attack ect to it still).
Nice flavor and writing. Something about the 50 ft. thing resonated poorly for me but not sure I can articulate exactly why.
Congratulations and Good Luck!
Lava Lash
Congratulations for making it into the Top 32!
Seeing as that's how I had to start this, you're already a potential "Superstar" so keep that in mind!
That out of the way, I'm going to treat your item the same as if I saw it in the Critique My Item Thread, which means I'll be using the following comments, and assuming you're submitting this item as your "sample" for an Open Call to Fat Goblin Game's Call to Arms book line.
Feel free to disagree with me and DEFEND YOUR CHOICES!
Revision Needed — An "ingot" is typically a unit of measure for a metal that has been shaped, weighed, etc. and is used for trade/sale and further processing -- stone wouldn't normally be measured as an ingot. Then obsidian is a type of "solidified lava" so... your descriptive just gets me and needs revision. I get what you are going for, and the formation makes sense to a point, I'm just left feeling odd. The core mechanic is neat, but I'd rather it was written up as effectively being an actual whip or something but you explain it fairly well. The 4 daily charge thing seems unneeded, and is "one more thing."
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Brian! Welcome...to the Top 32!
As one of the judges who'll be along for the entire ride of the competition, it's my duty (and pleasure) to offer up some commentary on your winning submission, as well as a bit of advice for the challenges to come. First up...your item...the lava lash...
Okay. The name is decent. We're obviously dealing with a whip. It's got a fire/lava theme. And you didn't go too crazy with the alliteration.
Mojo. It's meant to be a whip made of lava with some extreme range fire effects. Enough said.
Cinematic. Clearly we can imagine this in use, inflicting quite a scourge upon your enemies, even up to 50 ft. away.
Usefulness. Pretty darn useful with the constant touch attacks. The flame blade is the basis for this ability, but this effect may be a little too good considering the spell has a limited duration for a reason. Add in the 4/day ranged touch of combustion and the bonus catch fire effect on any successful combat maneuver with the whip, and we're raising the game. It even glows as a light source with a larger than average radius (40 ft.). So, it's got utility.
Mechanics. I'm not as impressed here. This item only cites Craft Magic Arms and Armor in its construction requirements, but it's really a wondrous item masquerading as a weapon. This absolutely needs to be a +1 whip at its very foundation to be a magic weapon. And, from there, you can layer on these other special effects and cite Craft Magic Arms and Armor. Or, you can go the Craft Wondrous Item direction, and declare it "like a whip" when it's really a black stone ingot that can generate a lash of lava to strike at foes "like a whip"...but it hopefully includes more than just weaponized effects so it can actually be a wondrous item. To me, this design hasn't really figured out what it wants to be (weapon vs. wondrous item). I see the later justification for "wanting to do something different" rather than include the "...this +1 whip..." traditional lead-in. But, it's traditional for a reason. That's how magic weapons are supposed to be designed. The pricing formula start with that as its foundation.
"A magic weapon must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus to have any melee or ranged special weapon abilities."
The lava lash doesn't cite any particular melee special weapon abilities, but many of its effects could be considered such. And, in truth, it really ought to be a +1 flaming whip at a minimum. I get that the design is trying to do something different, but to me, this is breaking ground in the wrong direction. I think the voters up-voted it for the cool factor and the visuals, and even because of the different elements with touch attacks and reach attacks with touch of combustion, but those same abilities could have been pulled off with a true weapon design, as well.
Polished. You followed the template as capably as you could. So, the attention to presentation is there.
Other than that, this was a miss for me. It was a big swing, and you gotta admire that no matter what. I can see that it has some cool effects. There's a good idea hiding in there somewhere, but the execution doesn't mesh with how the game presents magic weapons well enough for me. As a result, I probably wouldn't have elevated this into the Top 32 (though it might have been an alternate or a golden ticket if the judges were still using the old system). Regardless, I don't make that call. The voters do. So, I'll close with congratulating you once more and wishing you good luck in the competition. Make sure you bring your A-game for your map for Round 2.
My two cents,
--Neil
Assistant Developer
,
Star Voter Season 6
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Hello, Brian, and welcome to the Top 32!
I'll be a judge for this round, and I'm honored and pleased to offer feedback on your lava lash. I hope this feedback provides some helpful insight to you as you move forward in the competition.
As an assistant developer at Paizo, I'll offer you three levels of commentary that approximate the development process: some first impressions, a deeper look, and some measured feedback.
So, let's get started!
First impressions: From the name, I thought we'd be getting a magic weapon, then from the earlier text, it seemed like a wondrous item, and then it turned out to be, mechanically, a magic whip. There are some neat implications to a wondrous item that turns into a weapon (it sort of conjures a reminder of the mage's sword spell, or any of the numerous spells we have that conjure whips made of various things). However...
Deeper look: There's a reason why wondrous items and magic weapons are separate types of items with separate pricing structures. For me, this item would have been far stronger if it would have dropped all pretenses and simply been a magic whip -- which would have been fantastic for all the characters out there who love whips and sink feats and gold into developing a related character concepts.
Measured feedback: Your basic concept here is good and has a ton of potential. I think things went wrong as you tried to occupy too much design space, and what feels like an attempt to be fresh unintentionally wanders into the realm of apparent indecision. But don't let that get you down -- you've got some great ideas, like incorporating the burn UMR into a fiery whip. Just focus on funneling those concepts and ideas into more simple and organic design and you'll do well.
That said, thanks for reading, and best of luck in the contest!
Organized Play Line Developer
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Marathon Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9
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Congrats on making it into the top 32!
I wanted to point out that although I agree with some of the concerns pointed out above, I really like that you made the lava lash catch targets on fire with a successful combat maneuver. That's different, and cool and works great with a whip. I love it.
Best of luck in round two.
I just want to publicly say, I hear and understand the magic weapon/wondrous item conflation criticism loud and clear. I maintain that the way I have it set up wouldn't really cause rules interaction problems with the game as far as I can see (in play that is). That being said, I also accept the criticism as legit. It doesn't make sense within the normal taxonomy of magical gear...like a liger or a tigon, it's cool but nature won't allow it to reproduce.
In hindsight, yes, I should have made it a "+1 whip" that does all the other stuff I wanted it to do. I just would have had no idea how to price that. When you're making up a unique weapon that doesn't rely on preexisting magic weapon special abilities how does one price it out? I probably would have ended up pricing it as a wondrous item+the price of a +1 whip, since that seems to make the most sense. However, I feel like that would have made it too expensive for what you get out of the weapon. What do the pros do?
I agree with other people that this whip should function as a +1 whip of some kind. I also find the 4/ day unusual as the number of times an ability can be used.
That being said I love the idea and visuals of this item.
You’ve done well to earn your spot in this year’s Top 32 with the lava lash, Brian. Congratulations! Here’s a few thoughts I had while looking over your item:
- LAVA! There are few moments in this game that compare to watching that sense of dread wash over a player’s face when they realize they’re about to take massive amounts of damage for consecutive rounds. The frenzy made to survive a dip in the stuff has led to some impressive feats of teamwork at tables I’ve run. These moments were so inspiring that I wrote my entry into last year’s contest using lava. Meer mention of it in the name has me eager to read on.
- That’s it? You invoke the 20d6 hellburn that is the molten depths of the planet’s core and give me a 1d8 damage energy attack? I’m a little disappointed, but I’ll try to get over it.
- Ok, most characters use whips to accomplish combat maneuvers, so giving them a way to add burn to it is fun and flavorful.
- You say the wielder can’t add their strength modifier to an attack roll with it, an attack that results in no physical damage. This leads me to have the sense that there’s no real substance to this whip, which then makes me feel odd about being able to perform combat maneuvers with it. I agree with others in saying you should just make it a +1 whip.
- Getting additional function out of an item that is on point with its theme is a good touch. Something as simple as light can do this for you.
- Back to the description: You don’t need to specify that it’s not hot enough to damage the wielder if you don’t include mechanics for it damaging the wielder. Otherwise this a great description, one that had me ready to keep reading.
- GMs would have fun inflicting burn on players while using this on a well-built NPC.
- Whips are such niche weapons though, that I suspect most groups would just sell this item once they’ve looted it. I suspect they would admire it first though, and maybe even brainstorm a few new character ideas with it.
The descriptive first paragraph more than makesup for any misgivings I had about this item - it didn't wow me mechanics-wise (I do like the extra reach power, though not sold on the number of uses/day), but the imagery of the lumpy stone that produces a tongue of lava is very nicely written.
Nice work Brian.
Brian! Congratulations on making it through Round 1! Looking forward to seeing your map!
Don't have a lot to say that hasn't been said already, so I'll just wish you the best of luck moving forward!
