Rat Swarm?


Rules Questions


If I where to purchase 300 rats for 1c each would I be able to use them as a rat swarm with a successful handle animal check in PFS.

Sczarni

There are no PFS-specific rules for this, so I've flagged it to be moved over to the Rules Questions Forum.

That being said, no, there aren't any general rules for creating such a swarm in this way, either.

Swarms also can't generally be influenced by Handle Animal. It would take you 300 move actions (at least) to get them all to do something in unison.

Sczarni

You would need to train those 300 rats for combat and you can train one such animal per scenario I believe. In general, answer is very likely, no, you can't train a rat swarm and even if you could, there is no easy way to control them.


Isnt there a druid that speaks with swarm?

The Exchange

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Second level spell summon swarm ...
A scroll of it costs 150gp...

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Pipes of the sewer


Origami Swarm 300gp. one use, sorta similar

The Exchange

you know what? I kind of like the way this tread has gone.

Someone comes to the board and asks a question, something he wants to do but doesn't know if the rules will allow it.

and get's told "You can't do that!"

...but then other posters come on to say "but let's see if we can come up with some way in the rules to let you do something like it... see how close we can get you to what you want to do."

Thanks... this made me feel better about PFS.

Scarab Sages

I can recall some jungle movie where a guy gathers up a bag of snakes... and later drops them in a canoe with a bunch of guys.

I could see the OP doing this with a box/crate... gathering up rats and pitching them into a box, until he gets the chance to throw it (full of several hundred hungry rats) at the mooks. Sort of a giant sized stingchuck... hay, would this count as a splash weapon too?


2 people marked this as a favorite.
nosig wrote:

you know what? I kind of like the way this tread has gone.

Someone comes to the board and asks a question, something he wants to do but doesn't know if the rules will allow it.

and get's told "You can't do that!"

...but then other posters come on to say "but let's see if we can come up with some way in the rules to let you do something like it... see how close we can get you to what you want to do."

Thanks... this made me feel better about PFS.

This is how most of these conversations go in PFS, in my experience.

The Exchange

Dorothy Lindman wrote:
nosig wrote:

you know what? I kind of like the way this tread has gone.

Someone comes to the board and asks a question, something he wants to do but doesn't know if the rules will allow it.

and get's told "You can't do that!"

...but then other posters come on to say "but let's see if we can come up with some way in the rules to let you do something like it... see how close we can get you to what you want to do."

Thanks... this made me feel better about PFS.

This is how most of these conversations go in PFS, in my experience.

Not so much in mine. - But I think it's getting better than it used to be... and that is a good thing IMHO.

Grand Lodge

The Toaster wrote:

I can recall some jungle movie where a guy gathers up a bag of snakes... and later drops them in a canoe with a bunch of guys.

I could see the OP doing this with a box/crate... gathering up rats and pitching them into a box, until he gets the chance to throw it (full of several hundred hungry rats) at the mooks. Sort of a giant sized stingchuck... hay, would this count as a splash weapon too?

This runs into one of two rules.

Either it is a weapon, in which case you have broken the "no crafting" rule.

Or it is a group of animals, in which case you have broken the "only one combat pet" rule.

The Exchange

2 people marked this as a favorite.

The only rules that Pathfinder has that can handle 300 rats, all released in the same place, are the swarm rules. So if you buy a bag of 300 rats and open the bag, you will have created a swarm. It won't be under your control, but there are situations where being able to leave a swarm behind you would be helpful.

Others have indicated some ways in which you might be able to control the swarm you have created. In any event, it's unlikely that you'll be able to get the rats back in the bag, so this is a one-time only weapon.

There are other ways in which rats from this bag could be useful:


  • Tasty snack to bribe a monster
  • Release one in a room to provide a distraction
  • Release one into building and then turn up dressed as 'pest control' to gain entrance

I'm sure there are more.

Silver Crusade

brock, no the other one... wrote:
In any event, it's unlikely that you'll be able to get the rats back in the bag, so this is a one-time only weapon.

It costs only 3 gp.

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

No, 300 rats in a bag is *not* a swarm.

It is a bloody mess that starts smelling after 3 days. (How big a bag would you need for 300 rats anyway?) 300 rats in a bag are going to start fighting over space, food, females, defacate on each other, and as soon as the bag is open flee in all directions.

A rat swarm is 300 rats *not* trying to kill each other, and working together to take down large prey.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
FLite wrote:

No, 300 rats in a bag is *not* a swarm.

It is a bloody mess that starts smelling after 3 days. (How big a bag would you need for 300 rats anyway?) 300 rats in a bag are going to start fighting over space, food, females, defacate on each other, and as soon as the bag is open flee in all directions.

A rat swarm is 300 rats *not* trying to kill each other, and working together to take down large prey.

However,

    300 rats in a bag + pipes of the sewers = a rat swarm.

:)

Grand Lodge

The Fox wrote:
FLite wrote:

No, 300 rats in a bag is *not* a swarm.

It is a bloody mess that starts smelling after 3 days. (How big a bag would you need for 300 rats anyway?) 300 rats in a bag are going to start fighting over space, food, females, defacate on each other, and as soon as the bag is open flee in all directions.

A rat swarm is 300 rats *not* trying to kill each other, and working together to take down large prey.

However,

    300 rats in a bag + pipes of the sewers = a rat swarm.

:)

It's a 300 lb bag, and it probably doesn't stay 300 (live) rats for more than an hour... But sure, why not.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

What an odd conversation.

I counter your bag of rats with... a bag of terriers!

Hah!

Grand Lodge

I just reread Pipes of the sewers.

Technically he just needs a bag of 3 rats and pipes of the sewers.

(It says if there are any rats, you can summon 1d3 rat swarms. It doesn't say "if there are enough rats from 1-3 swarms." Also, since it just says they have to be in the area, not they have to be able to get to you, you can leave the rats in the bag, and in one round you will have 1d3 rat swarms. Not that I would ever let this work at a table, mind you. But theoretically...)

The Exchange

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'm in favour of encouraging any form of player shenanigans that results in the line "'ang on lads, I've got a bag 'o rats here" being uttered at the table.

Sczarni

nosig wrote:

Someone comes to the board and asks a question, something he wants to do but doesn't know if the rules will allow it.

and get's told "You can't do that!"

...but then other posters come on to say "but let's see if we can come up with some way in the rules to let you do something like it... see how close we can get you to what you want to do."

Thanks... this made me feel better about PFS.

And it's comments like this that make my opinion of certain posters go down.

If you're going to quote someone, quote someone. Don't interject words or tone where none were to begin with.

"Don't be a jerk" isn't just for during gameplay.


Nefreet wrote:
nosig wrote:

Someone comes to the board and asks a question, something he wants to do but doesn't know if the rules will allow it.

and get's told "You can't do that!"

...but then other posters come on to say "but let's see if we can come up with some way in the rules to let you do something like it... see how close we can get you to what you want to do."

Thanks... this made me feel better about PFS.

And it's comments like this that make my opinion of certain posters go down.

If you're going to quote someone, quote someone. Don't interject words or tone where none were to begin with.

"Don't be a jerk" isn't just for during gameplay.

?


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Nefreet wrote:
nosig wrote:

Someone comes to the board and asks a question, something he wants to do but doesn't know if the rules will allow it.

and get's told "You can't do that!"

...but then other posters come on to say "but let's see if we can come up with some way in the rules to let you do something like it... see how close we can get you to what you want to do."

Thanks... this made me feel better about PFS.

And it's comments like this that make my opinion of certain posters go down.

If you're going to quote someone, quote someone. Don't interject words or tone where none were to begin with.

"Don't be a jerk" isn't just for during gameplay.

Nefreet, I think quite the opposite occurred. nosig stated that he likes that this occurred:

1) OP wants to do something, asks if it's possible.
2) People respond (initially) "Nope, sorry".
3) People then respond "...but, lets see how close we can get to what you want to do!"

That's a good thing man.


Nefreet wrote:
nosig wrote:

Someone comes to the board and asks a question, something he wants to do but doesn't know if the rules will allow it.

and get's told "You can't do that!"

...but then other posters come on to say "but let's see if we can come up with some way in the rules to let you do something like it... see how close we can get you to what you want to do."

Thanks... this made me feel better about PFS.

And it's comments like this that make my opinion of certain posters go down.

If you're going to quote someone, quote someone. Don't interject words or tone where none were to begin with.

"Don't be a jerk" isn't just for during gameplay.

No one is being a jerk... Honestly, this thread was being really supportive and positive, so much that a poster even commented how supportive and positive people were being and you bring in the negativity and name calling.

Community Manager

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Let's take a step back, folks. It's really easy to infer the wrong intent through text—let's keep the thread positive.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Rat Swarm? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.