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I'm an old D&D 2nd and 3.0/3.5 player, who hasn't run or played in a RPG campaign in about 4 years. I went to Gencon this year with my wife and 11 year old daughter. I (foolishly) signed my daughter up for a single kids track pathfinder session on Friday morning, to see if she'd like it.
She never left the area. I couldn't drag her out of there. 18 hours of kid's track RPG sessions later she had finished everything they had.
By the way, in case any of them read this, every single Paizo/Pathfinder support staff and volunteer GM I met at Gencon was awesome. I feel they ran a great intro/kid's area.
So now she wants to play, and there happens to be an existing Pathfinder society group that meets twice a month at a nearby game store. My wife would also be playing, although she tends to prefer characters with fewer options in combat (i.e a handful of useful re-usable abilities as opposed to going through 30 different spell choices), so more fighter type than caster. She also hates Elves.
My daughter ended up liking the Barbarian (Amiri), but also played the cleric (Kyra) when the table didn't have one. Once she learned there was a Barbarian that can turn into a dragon (or at least into something like a winged half-dragon by 12th), I was ordered to buy the advanced class guide (i.e. Bloodrager).
So I have access to the core pathfinder book, advanced players guide, advanced class guide, and the Orcs of Golarion.
So given we would be going as a group of 3, would this be a reasonable group to bring to a pathfinder society 1st level game? Is it over optimized? Too weak to fill out 3/4 to 1/2 of a half party? At this point, I don't have a good feel for the difficulty of Pathfinder society games.
Anyways, the proposed characters are:
Half-Orc Bloodrager, Draconic Bloodline
Chaotic Good
Str: 16
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 10
Cha: 14
Racial traits -> Sacred Tattoo
Traits: Bully, Indomitable Faith
Feat: Amplified Rage Feat (from Orcs of Golarion)
Skills: Acrobatics, Intimidate, Perception, Spellcraft
Favored class bonus to rage rounds
The plan would be to continue straight bloodrager, although not too sure of what kind of fighting focus she'll want other than 2-handed weapon. Or maybe she'll be using those claws. She keeps joking about having the character be raised in the wilds by wolves.
Half-Orc Barbarian (Invulnerable Rager Archetype)
Chaotic Good
Str: 18
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 10
Cha: 10
Racial traits -> Sacred Tattoo, Scavenger
Traits: Vagabond Child, Indomitable Faith
Feat: Amplified Rage Feat
Skills: Disable device, Perception, Stealth, Survival
Favored class bonus to rage rounds or maybe skills?
Plan would be to dip rogue (scout) or maybe slayer to get trapfinding and possibly evasion, and sneak attack. At most a 4 level dip, and maybe just 1 or 2. Feat wise would head down Power Attack -> Cleave feat path. Grab the beast totem rage powers (towards pounce). Background would be an orphaned city half-orc having survived on the streets of Absalom.
Half-Orc Skald
Chaotic Good
Str: 14
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 13
Wis: 10
Cha: 16
Racial traints -> Sacred Tattoo, City-raised
Traits: Dangerously Curious, Indomitable Faith
Feat: Warleader's Rage (from Orcs of Golarion), Extra Performance
Skills: Perception, Perform (Oratory), Spellcraft, Use Magic Device, Knowledge (Local), Knowledge(History)
Favored class bonus to skills until 1 in each knowledge, then to song rounds
Spells: Read Magic, Detect Magic, Dancing Lights, Prestidigitation
Cure Light Wounds, Charm Person
Plan would be to pick up Skald's vigor, increase Int to 14 at 4th and grab bluff with versatile performance covering Diplomacy and Sense motive. I'm wondering if grabbing a level of Barbarian or Bloodrager at 3rd level along with amplified rage would be worth it and push off Skald's vigor to 6th? Or just go straight Skald. Sharable rage powers would be Superstition->Witch Hunter. Assuming we play that long, I might pickup Ultimate combat and grab Spell Sunder.
In combat, the ideal situation would be the two front liners standing next to each other, the skald starts singing first, sending the front liners into a +8 Str/+8 Con/-2 AC rage while within 30' of the Skald. They proceed to charge for +11/10 to hit and 2d6+12/10 damage.
Out of combat we have a party face (eventually at level 2) in the Skald with some spell support and UMD, a really intimidating draconic barbarian with an eventual minor in arcane spells, and a Barbarian with a rogue skill set.
Background is they're Half-orcs who've either made their way or started in Absalom, eventually forming a group for mutual safety and worship of Gorum, out to prove that they can be just as good as any other race.
Thanks ahead of time for comments and advice.
The characters look reasonably balanced and would contribute to a table well enough. I don't really see a point in the rogue levels for the Invulnerable Rager - flanking is much more dangerous with Amplified Rage because enemies can step out of it to remove your CON, which can literally killed people. Disable Device ranks and a masterwork kit are more than enough for disabling traps.
Re: traits - Swap Bully for Toothy (Orcs of Golarion) on the Bloodrager, which will allow for claw/claw/bite while raging. If natural weapons are the choice here, it's good to go all-in.
There are a lot of options in other books that will help you. Raging Vitality (Ultimate Combat), bloodline familiar (Familiar Folio - allows the bloodrager to swap the claws for a permanent adjacent ally that can share Amp Rage with the Valet archetype), etc. If you're willing to consider additional books, that can be discussed more. If not, the 4 books you've listed will provide a lot of options for you to consider, but they won't be as focused.
Regarding Skald, be mindful of this:
If an ally has her own rage class ability (such as barbarian's rage, bloodrager's bloodrage, or skald's inspired rage), she may use the Strength, Constitution, and Will saving throw bonuses, as well as AC penalties, based on her own ability and level instead of those from the skald (still suffering no fatigue afterward). However, inspired rage does not allow the ally to activate abilities dependent on other rage class abilities, such as rage powers, blood casting, or bloodrager bloodlines; the ally must activate her own rage class ability in order to use these features.
If you're using the Skald's song, the Bloodrager don't get claws and the Barbarian doesn't get any of its rage powers unless you're also spending rounds. If you're going for the tasty Warlord's Rage buff, that's not a big deal, but just bear in mind that not all rages are born equal.
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Hiruma Kai,
I'm very glad to hear you had an excellent experience at GenCon. I know we all try our best and its great to hear when it pays off.
A lot can be said about right/wrong in character development. But one thing I know I live by when working with my group is "Is it Fun". Its more important that you all enjoy your characters and have fun playing them than worrying about optimizing them. (Ok, I'll stop before I get to any farther on that soap box. LOL) That said, the stat distribution looks good and you have a good bit of backstory. I think you'll be well set for starter characters. If you want to branch out into other books, there are a plethora of options, but if you are just getting started, I suggest sticking to the books you have. Branch out with other books after you get comfortable with the ones you have.
In general Pathfinder Society scenarios are designed to accommodate a wide variety of play styles. We try to avoid having to optimize characters simply to succeed. In my opinion, you should be well set with what you have.
I wish you the best of luck in your adventures! Good hunting and may the road be ever clear in front of you! I hope we hear more of your adventures next year at GenCon!
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If you're using the Skald's song, the Bloodrager don't get claws and the Barbarian doesn't get any of its rage powers unless you're also spending rounds. If you're going for the tasty Warlord's Rage buff, that's not a big deal, but just bear in mind that not all rages are born equal.
Yes - as odd as it sounds, Skalds don't actually combo very well with Bloodragers & Barbarians. It's okay for the first couple levels when they don't have many rounds of rage, but by 3-4 it's mostly redundant.
You'd probably be better off with a bard. (Plus - I must say that Bardic Knowledge is incredibly handy in PFS as there are a lot of random knowledge checks.)
Other than that - looks pretty solid to me. Could they be power-gamed harder? A bit. But generally PFS isn't very hard anyway, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.
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Raging Vitality (Ultimate Combat)
Actually, that feat's in the Advanced Players Guide, which he said he already has. I'd say it's absolutely mandatory for any barbarian by level 5, at the absolute latest. I don't know the newer classes much, so I'm not sure if bloodrager and skald work the same way.
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Have you looked at the unchained barbarian? It simplifies the math of the barbarian's rage considerably. Might be worth looking at for your daughter.
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Skalds have bardic knowledge too! But yes, in this case I'd say a bard that keeps inspire courage is probably better. Or an evangelist cleric, and bring clerical powers to the table for party balance. Oh shoot, you don't have Ultimate Combat. Then go bard. Flamedancer archetype from ACG is especially good for what it brings at level 3, since it allows you to use a wand of Obscuring Mist to baffle enemies while your party can see through everything.
I do a lot of paired builds for PFS with my boyfriend. When doing these, we endeavor to cover knowledge skills and bring different talents for party balance. Some of our combinations have been:
1) Sylvan Sorceror with Tiger Companion, Cleric with reach weapon + fighter feats
2) Oradin (Life Oracle/Paladin healer), Arcanist
3) Duettist Bard, Bloodrager X/Spell Warrior Skald 1
4) Sorcerer, Psychic Searcher Lunar Oracle
What we've tried to do in many cases is balance out Melee Smash with battlefield control spells and buffing, Divine vs. Arcane, and skill coverage. As well as having fun paired backstories!
In PFS games, Perception, Diplomacy and various Knowledges (esp. Local) are great things to have in any party. You'll want to make sure you three cover some of these!
With a Bloodrager and a Barbarian, you'll have plenty of SMASH. What you'll need to balance that is some skills, face abilities, and a little spell casting. A bard would do great here in balancing what you three bring to the table, especially since Bards can use Cure Light Wounds wands.
Other things to consider... With three of you in the mix, you could do great things with teamwork feats together!
Here's an important question for you and your daughter?
Does she like Avatar: The Last Airbender?
If yes, would she want to play a bender of some sort?
If yes, check out the kineticist in Occult Adventures.
And let a potential A:TLA fan's father be blamed for not mentioning such an option? Blaspheme!
Huzzah!
First off, thanks everyone for the advice, it is appreciated.
@Serisan, We've kinda blown the game/entertainment budget at Gencon so the books I have are basically it for a few months.
The reason we were thinking a rogue level or two was mostly to get the trapfinding ability to disarm magical traps. Is that not a big worry for PFS? I think going straight Barbarian is probably better from the combat point of view, and the wife would prefer that if we don't need a magical trap finder. I suppose I can always have the Skald learn a low level summon spell as well for limited trap triggering or the like.
I'm hoping the amplified rage limitations (i.e. adjacent or flanking) is somewhat mitigated by the 30' range of Warleader's rage, so that enemies 5' stepping out of flank is a non-issue.
I was aware of the only 1 rage application (either Skald or Barbarian, not both) at a time, but there are some advantages to being able to slide in and out without fatigue. Admittedly, for purely bigger numbers Bard plus Barbarians is the way to go, but thematically the Skald just fits so much better in the group. Plus having superstition on a rage song which can choose to turn on or off seems good.
@SarNati, Thanks for the info. Thats what I was hoping to hear, so I won't sweat optimizing 100% then. Being an older 3.5 player, its is quite easy for me to go overboard... (I once had this really fun 15th-ish level Ranger/Psion (Egoist)/Shadow Dancer/Phrenic Slayer...). Sadly, next year's Gencon is a no go for me and the daughter because her school starts up too early.
@Charon's Little Helper, As noted, Skalds do have the lore skills/abilities of bards ,whcih is nice. Good to see people in agreement on the fact you don't need taht much power optimization.
@Fromper, I just looked at Raging Vitality, it does look good, but I'm not sure how to fit it in before 5th on the two barbarian/bloodrager builds. I can see getting it at 6th, although I think both the Barbarians would want to be putting the level 4 ability point in Strength instead of Con. Anyways, we have a long time to think about it.
@Cyrad, I'm not to worried about the math for her. I'll probably also create some 3x5 cards with combat stats for different "buff sets", i.e. Raging, Amplified Raging for her. Plus thats another book which I can't justify buying right now.
@Hmm and Protoman, Yes she has watched all of Avatar, the Last Airbender. However, she's a much stronger fan of dragons in general. She's been drawing dragons since she was 6 years old. I asked her if she would prefer a bender type character and responded with a "DRAGON SMASH!". So I think Bloodrager it is. :)
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The reason I say Raging Vitality is mandatory is because of the Con bonus you get while raging. It increases your max HP, but then if you're knocked down to negative, you stop raging and lose that bonus to HP.
So for instance, a barbarian with 14 Con at level 5 without the feat, gets a max HP increase of 10 while raging. If something hits her hard enough to knock her to -6, she drops unconscious, stops raging, and loses those 10 extra HP. Thus, she automatically goes from -6 to -16 HP, which is DEAD.
If she had Raging Vitality, she'd have 15 extra HP while raging at level 5 (because of the extra +2 Con while raging that the feat provides), so that hit that put her at -6 would actually only drop her to -1. But then, the feat would let her keep raging, so she wouldn't drop those 15 extra HP, go down to -16, and die instantly. She'd have more than a dozen rounds to stabilize or get a heal from a party member before dying.
So it's worth it for every rager to start with a high enough Con score for Raging Vitality and pick it up at level 3 or 5.
Excellent! You did your due diligence, sir!
I hope your kid enjoys her dragonrager badass.
@Fromper, I guess I had been viewing it through the lens of the Skald's inspiring rage which affects allies even while they are unconscious/below 0 hit points. Unconscious allies don't get a choice, they get the bonus Con whether they like it or not.
But if the other two are going to be using their own abilities, they'll want Raging Vitality. I'll see if I can dump stat Charisma on one and Wisdom on the other (although I hate taking a Wis penalty to saving throws on a poor will save class) to get the necessary Con. Kinda funny spending more total point buy points on Con instead of Str on a Bloodrager.
I'm guessing I be able to skip Raging Vitality on the Skald, unless I decide dipping 1 level into Barbarian or Bloodrager is worth it to get the Amplified Rage/Greater Skald's Vigor combo going. He'll hopefully be taking less damage than the two front liners.
@Serisan, My daughter liked the bite attack suggestion. I'm guessing there isn't a good way to go between 2-handed (when doing a move and standard attack) and the full round claw/claw/bite routine other than just dropping the greatsword.
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@Serisan, My daughter liked the bite attack suggestion. I'm guessing there isn't a good way to go between 2-handed (when doing a move and standard attack) and the full round claw/claw/bite routine other than just dropping the greatsword.
Nope.
Of note - in the longterm, she'll want to either focus on either sword or nat weapons as you can't really afford to enchant both the sword and get an Amulet of Mighty Fists.
Frankly - between the limited rounds of claws/day (only 5) and only being able to use them when raging, I don't think focusing on nat weapons would be a good idea as you'd run out semi-consistently, even only using them on full attacks.
The bite is still handy even when using the sword though, even if it is at -5.
One nice thing about the Toothy trait is that you can wield a ready weapon and still threaten adjacent squares.
You can also check out the Aegis of Recovery to avoid dying when you go unconscious. (I don't remember which book it's in, sorry. I'm on my phone and can't look it up easily.)
bloodline familiar (Familiar Folio - allows the bloodrager to swap the claws for a permanent adjacent ally that can share Amp Rage with the Valet archetype)
Valet Amplified Rage doesn't work, unfortunately, AFAICT, because inspired rafe is almost, but not quite, rage.
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If you don't mind losing amplified rage, you could try go for a half orc oracle of battle with seeker archtype so you can do trapfinding. Bloodragers might need patching up occassionally, you know...and all of you have now covered face, arcane, divine, melee and traps ;) Well, not ranged, but I heard bards make good archers...
You can run the same statline as your daughter, its fine.
@Hmm:
Sorry, I never answered your directly answered your question. Yeah, its something along the lines of orphaned half-orcs coming together in a makeshift family rather than direct blood ties.
We were trying to cover the basics, i.e. Smash, disable device/perception, knowledge skills, some healing and support spells, plus UMD. The Skald doesn't go full on face until level 2 via Versatile Performance to add 2 more social skills. He also gets Spell Kenning at 5th which basically gives access to any cleric/wizard spells (although 1/day and relatively low level compared to a full caster).
The Flame Dancer is an interesting combination with obscuring mist. It strikes me as doing well with reach weapons.
@Charon's Little Helper:
I would tend to agree with you, but we'll see what she enjoys to do in combat, and go with purchases from there. Initial mundane purchases are going to include the Greatsword and a Lucerene Hammer, to see if reach + bite is something she likes, or if move + standard action Greatsword is more her thing.
Initial raging rounds is 7/day (4 + 2 con modifier + 1 Half orc favored class). I'm guessing magic weapon purchasing would happen around level 3 or 4, by which time she'll have 13 to 16 rounds of raging per day, it might not be that bad if she wants to go claw/claw/bite with a mighty amulet.
@Gwen Smith:
Aegis of recovery in the Ultimate Equipment guide, which we don't have. As it crumbles to dust when you drop below 0 hit points, it strikes me as a fairly expensive expendable (1,500 gp). Cheaper than raise dead with 2 negative levels though. In any case, it wouldn't be something purchased until much later levels.
@Just a Mort:
Unfortunately, we currently lack the book that the seeker archetype is in (Pathfinder Society Field Guide). So it either just go with the non-magical disable device the Barbarian has, or have her dip 1 level into rogue (or 2 levels into slayer I suppose given what we have available).
Certainly a cleric or oracle of Gorum was something I was considering. As far as I can tell, you can take Warleader's Rage without needing the ability to rage, and as long as the other two have Amplified Rage, it'll still work as a 30' radius where they can keep it up even if the leader isn't benefiting. So a charismatic battle oracle could work in the place of a Skald or Bard. The question is do I want more raw casting power, or skills (knowledge) and more unorthodox buffs (i.e. rage power sharing like Superstition/Witch Hunter/Spell Sunder) and some minor early game synergy (extra raging rounds to the two barbarians at level 1-2).
So yeah, the party does have some, but not much, healing via the Skald. Sadly a skald can't grab Greater Skald's vigor until 11th (which strikes me as cool when combined with Amplified Rage and 1 level Barbarian dip, it provides 8 fast healing to everyone in the party per round of rage song at 11th).
@Just a Mort:
In the document I downloaded for free, the Pathfinder Society, Year of the Serpent, Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Guide version 7.0 (product number PZOPSS0000E), it has a section labeled Core Tenets. Under that there is a paragraph that says:
Pathfinder Society Organized Play assumes that every
player has the following resources.
• Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook
• Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Guide (this document)
The only other thing they list as needing to be familiar with is the FAQ.
I can't find anything in that pdf that talks about a core assumption. The field guide is mentioned along with the Guide to Abalsom, but off in section 3 and only mentions that they are available on the site for purchase, not that they are required for play. If they are required, its not clear from this document. Is there another section of the website I should be looking at?
Right now I'm working under the assumption I need to bring my books (which needs to at least include the core rule book, plus whatever the characters are using), the character sheets, the inventory tracking sheets, and finally chronicle sheets once the characters actually start adventuring. Plus dice. If there's anything else I need/should bring, let me know.
@Kot the Protector, We're a few states south of you, so it'd be a bit far to drive. :)
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Yes, the Pathfinder Society Field Guide is its own separate book, popular still as a PFS purchase mainly for its archetypes, vanities, and some alternate wayfinders.
If I was looking for a next purchase to amplify Society Play for your crew it would be the Advanced Race Guide. (Though perhaps not if Orcs of Golarian includes alternate Half-Orc Racials. Does it have Sacred Tattoo? That combined with Fate's Favored trait gives a +2 luck bonus to all saves. Oh. Wait a minute. Fate's Favored isn't in the free character traits web enhancement. It's from Ultimate Campaign. Bother.)
Okay, scratch that. It would be Ultimate Equipment, then.
However, you guys seem to have a good workable party, and you're very thematic. I wish that you were in the Twin Cities metro. We'd have a blast playing with you.
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For the party balance thing, I'd weigh skills over healing. You can handle everyone's CLW wands, and that should be enough. What can really be disastrous in PFS is a SMASH-only party on a social or investigative mission. Bringing a face and bringing in Knowledge Skills can make a huge difference to most missions.
Start your Skald out with a skill point in Diplomacy, and then trade out that skill point with the PFS free level 1 rebuild before your Versatile Performance kicks in at Level 2. Diplomacy, Knowledge Local and Perception are the most rolled skills in PFS scenarios.
Hmm
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Ahh sorry. Ive been sleeping for a thousand years it seems...
Nah, at some point of time, there was a core assumption, and pathfinder society field guide was part of it. Then there was all that nasty season 4 and beyond - we're out to kill unoptimised players, I stopped reading the pathfinder society guide, because I lost interest in PFS.
And with season 6, I couldn't look at the guide because it contained robots, I disbelieve robots exist in PFS because I feel they have no place in the fantasy setting of D&D.
So its been a long time since I've picked up the pathfinder society guide. Guess I need to audit my characters for air crystals.
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@Charon's Little Helper:
I would tend to agree with you, but we'll see what she enjoys to do in combat, and go with purchases from there. Initial mundane purchases are going to include the Greatsword and a Lucerene Hammer, to see if reach + bite is something she likes, or if move + standard action Greatsword is more her thing.Initial raging rounds is 7/day (4 + 2 con modifier + 1 Half orc favored class). I'm guessing magic weapon purchasing would happen around level 3 or 4, by which time she'll have 13 to 16 rounds of raging per day, it might not be that bad if she wants to go claw/claw/bite with a mighty amulet.
I'm not 100% - but isn't a bloodrager still limited by the same # of rounds per day that a sorcerer is? With a CHA of 14, only 5 rounds of claws/day.
If I'm wrong - that'd be a very viable combat style, especially if you find a way to get barkskin or some such so that you don't take an AC hit by using up your neck slot. (No Amulet of Natural Armor.)
@Hmm, Sacred tattoo is in the Advanced Player's Guide, so we're all taking that along with indomitable faith. Sacred tattoos marking us as followers of Gorum. Fate's favored would be better but sadly too many useful books to buy. Overtime we'll slowly get more.
I had missed the fact you get a free rebuild during first level, so that is helpful for the skald. In that case the skald will be starting with a +7 to diplomacy and +8 to knowledge local (city raised).
@Just a mort, Gotcha. Good to know.
Edit:
@Charon's little Helper,
As far as I can tell all Bloodrager abilities turn on in rage, and turn off outside it unless otherwise stated. In the Advanced Class Guide it just says you grow claws, so it looks like its all the time raging. I could imagine using the Rageshaper archetype if she really likes the claws, which now that I know you can rebuild during level 1, we could add as she goes to level 2.
Not that PFS goes that high, but you also get a bunch of natural attacks via Form of the Dragon II at 16. Although I don't know the pathfinder polymorph rules yet, and so I don't know how magic items interact with the dragon form.
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I saw no language limiting the use of draconic bloodrager claws.
You're right (I just took a better look at Bloodrager) - I was thinking of the sorcerer's draconic bloodline.
One point of note with a nat weapon Bloodrager build. When you're NOT raging, you only have 1 nat weapon (bite) - so you actually get 1.5x STR damage with it. It might be a way to save bloodrage rounds to NOT turn it on until AFTER moving into combat (when you only get 1 attack anyway), as the damage from the bite at STR 18 would be the same with or without raging. (Once you get a AoMF so you aren't using the greatsword when you move.)
Also - as with any other nat weapon build - you'll eventually want to grab a Helm of the Mammoth lord for the gore attack.
The only other Bloodrager build note - is that you might consider getting Heavy Armor Proficiency to eventually wear a suit of mithril full-plate. But - maybe not as it would keep her at 30ft move speed. I tend to be more defensive minded than most.
@Charon's Little Helper:
Thats true. The Skald may be singing anyways, so she can use those rage rounds to close with just the bite at 24 Str. You're losing out on 2d6 versus 1d4, so only 4.5 average damage for that closing turn.
As for armor, the Draconic blood line does provide a bit of natural armor: +1, +2 at 8, +4 at 16. Although I think the enhancement natural armor from the amulet would stack. There's apparently an Iron Skin spell on the Bloodrager list which is +4 enhancement to natural armor for a 2nd level slot (1 minute/level) in the Monster codex.
Long term armor is probably going to be Mithril Breastplate (Agile). With base 14 Dex, in principle really late game she would have only 1 less armor than the mithril full plate when combined with a belt of physical perfection +6. Its also cheaper early game to get to that armor you want to enchant (5,000 gp is a big jump in cost, basically a +1 to +2 jump). Plus it saves a feat or class dip.
I currently think the feats will be going towards an intimidate build after the Raging Vitality feat. She likes the idea of roaring alot.
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@Charon's Little Helper:
Thats true. The Skald may be singing anyways, so she can use those rage rounds to close with just the bite at 24 Str. You're losing out on 2d6 versus 1d4, so only 4.5 average damage for that closing turn.
Right - only useful once she gets an AoMF, so it'd only be 3.5 damage less and 1 accuracy more. Maybe not even until +2 AoMF.
With base 14 Dex, in principle really late game she would have only 1 less armor than the mithril full plate when combined with a belt of physical perfection +6.
In PFS - that belt will never really happen. Even the +4 physical perfection belt (the first to boost dex over mithril full-plate's max) is 64k - over half of a character's wealth at level 12, where PFS mostly ends.
It is a significant cost in gold, a feat, and slower movement, but it'd be a +3 AC boost for the entire PFS career.
@Charon's Little Helper
Good point on the belt's cost. I've found a way to avoid the gold and feat costs to get into Full Plate. Its the Steelblood Bloodrager Archetype. It trades fast movement, light and medium armor proficiency for Heavy armor proficiency and no arcane spell failure in heavy armor. The wording makes it sound like light and medium armor arcane failure does apply.
At 2nd level she also gets +5' in Heavy armor for a total of 25' (not as good as 30' one would have from fast movement in medium armor).
At which point Mithril becomes moot, and you can just go ahead and buy Full Plate +1 by 3rd level [for 21 AC at 3rd, 22 AC at 4th (+1 natural armor), and 23 at 5th(+1 extra dex applied)]. A shield spell starting at 4th can push those higher.
Seems like a decent trade. Thanks for the advice. I'll ask my daughter whether she wants to be a slower full plated half-dragon or a faster less armored half-dragon.
@Fromper, I guess I had been viewing it through the lens of the Skald's inspiring rage which affects allies even while they are unconscious/below 0 hit points. Unconscious allies don't get a choice, they get the bonus Con whether they like it or not.
But if the other two are going to be using their own abilities, they'll want Raging Vitality. I'll see if I can dump stat Charisma on one and Wisdom on the other (although I hate taking a Wis penalty to saving throws on a poor will save class) to get the necessary Con. Kinda funny spending more total point buy points on Con instead of Str on a Bloodrager.
Rather than dump attributes harder, you could look at raising Con at 4th level and picking up the feat at 5th level. It would be a little risky, but I think it is manageable.
The Bloodrager has it a little bit easier with the Phantom Blood spell (ACG) that will give temporary hit points if you go down. The problem is that the number of temporary hit points is based on caster level and it maxes out quick. Even the Bloodrager is going to want Raging Vitality.
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In my experience, traps really aren't that big a deal for most Pathfinder Organized Play scenarios. They don't come up very often, and even when they do it isn't that big a deal -- especially for barbarians or Bloodragers. I wouldn't worry too much that there is no trap finding in your party.
bloodline familiar (Familiar Folio - allows the bloodrager to swap the claws for a permanent adjacent ally that can share Amp Rage with the Valet archetype)Valet Amplified Rage doesn't work, unfortunately, AFAICT, because inspired rafe is almost, but not quite, rage.
It seems I was wrong about that.
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"The reason we were thinking a rogue level or two was mostly to get the trapfinding ability to disarm magical traps. Is that not a big worry for PFS? I think going straight Barbarian is probably better from the combat point of view, and the wife would prefer that if we don't need a magical trap finder. I suppose I can always have the Skald learn a low level summon spell as well for limited trap triggering or the like."
As an experienced half-orc player, if you have a half-orc barbarian - you have a magic trap finder.
Party Wizard: " The door detects as magic."
Party Fighter: "Oh hmmm... everyone get behind these tables. Meat, open the door."
Meat, the half-orc barbarian: [Looking up from the hunk of meat he's gnawing on cuz there's no bad guys to be smashing on] "Huh? O-Ks..."
Party Fighter: "Everybody down."
[Sound of door being ripped from hings, followed by explosion]
Meat: "Ow"
Party Cleric: [pulling out wands and scrolls] "I got yah big guy."
@BretI, When I asked them if they wanted to spend the point later or dump stats, I got a simultaneous "dump stats" response. Apparently its not an RPG without dump stat characters. My wife also asked what self respecting Half-Orc Barbarian doesn't take charisma as a dump stat?
@BretI, CWheezy, Meat, Your advice has made us happy to go the straight Barbarian route, and we'll get Cure Light Wound wands as soon as practical for "trapfinding".
So again thanks to everyone who has posted advice in this thread, we've come up with the following characters, their backgrounds, and advancement plans.
Angmura (aka Hugs) was found as a babe being raised by wolves, by a traveling dwarven smith by the name of Ironbeard. He was heading for Absalom to make his fortune, but took pity on her, and brought her along to the city. There she was raised, making friends with other children and orphans, including Sheshka and Dargun. When she was old enough, she began earning her keep as armorer's apprentice. A decade later, after having made his fortune, Ironbeard decided it was time to leave Absalom and return to his dwarven homeland, leaving Angmura to make her way on her own.
Chaotic Good Half-Orc Bloodrager (Steelblood Archetype) 1
Black Dragon Bloodline
Str: 16 Dex: 14 Con: 15 Int: 10 Wis: 8 Cha: 14
Feat: Amplified Rage
Traits: Tusked (Bite attack), Indomitable Faith (+1 to Will)
Ferocity->Sacred Tattoo
+8 Intimidate, +4 Craft (Armor), +4 Spellcraft, +3 Perception
Proposed level ups would be straight bloodrager.
3) Raging Vitality, 4 BR) Eschew materials, 4) +1 Str, 5) Intimidating Prowess,
6 BR) Power Attack, 7) Cornugon Smash (Pathfinder Chronicles - Cheliax: Empire of Devils),
8) +1 Str, 9) Furious Focus, 9 BR) Improved Initiative, 11) Dreadful Carnage, 12 BR) Toughness
Sheska grew up an orphan in Absalom. Initially she was cared for in an orphanage, but at a young age left, surviving on the street using her wits and skills, and protected by her unusual strength. She came to meet Angmura by chance, selling bits of broken armor and weapons to the local smiths. In Angmura she found a kindred spirit, another half-orc with rage in her heart. When Angmura's adoptive father left, his final advice was that they seek to join the Pathfinder society as a way to find both purpose and advancement. She agreed to join the society with Angmura.
Chaotic Good Half-Orc Barbarian (Invulnerable Rager Archetype) 1
Str: 18 Dex: 14 Con: 15 Int: 10 Wis: 10 Cha: 8
Feat: Amplified Rage
Traits: Vagabond Child (Disable Device), Indomitable Faith
Ferocity -> Sacred Tattoo, Intimidation -> Scavenger
+5 Acrobatics, +6 Disable Device, +4 Perception (6 vs hidden), +4 Survival
Proposed level ups would be straight barbarian.
2) Rage Power -> Strength Surge, 3) Raging Vitality, 4) Rage Power -> Lesser Beast Totem, 4) +1 Str
5) Power Attack, 6) Rage Power -> Beast Totem, 7) Improved Sunder
8) Rage Power -> Increased Damage Reduction, 8) +1 Str, 9) Extra Rage Power (Increased Damage Reduction),
10) Rage Power -> Greater Beast Totem, 11) Extra Rage Power (Increased Damage Reduction)
12) Rage Power -> Flesh Wound
Dargun was raised the son of a half-orc clerics to a church of Gorum in Absalom.
Unfortunately he never showed the wisdom or patience to follow in his parent's footsteps. On the other hand, he turned to out to be an incredibly quick study, devoring any information both mundane and magical. He also became an excellent singer and chanter of the Gorumskagat. While out with his parents proclaiming the word of Gorum in the city, he came across the half-orcs Angmura and Sheska. He convinced them to come to the temple on occasion, and over several years would relate tales of Gorum as well as legendary orcs and half-orcs in his service. Eventually, when Angmura and Sheshka went to join the Pathfinder society, they asked him to join the society as well. With his parent's blessing, he did. To mark that decision, he inscribed sacred tattooes of Gorum on all of them, in the hopes that their path would follow in the footsteps of those legendary half-orcs of old.
Chaotic Good Half-Orc Skald 1
Str: 14 Dex: 12 Con: 14 Int: 14 Wis: 8 Cha:16
Feat: Warleader's Rage
Traits: Reactionary, Indomitable Faith
Ferocity -> Sacred Tattoo
+7 Diplomacy, +7 Knowledge Local, +7 Knowledge Religion, +3 all other Knowledge, +7 Peform Sing, +3 Perception, +6 Spellcraft, +7 Use Magic Device
Proposed level ups would be straight skald.
3) Rage Power -> Superstition, 3) Improved Initiative, 4) +1 Cha, 5) Weapon Focus.
6) Rage Power -> Witch Hunter, 7) Lingering Performance, 8) +1 Cha,
9) Rage Power -> Spell Sunder (Ultimate combat), 9) Skald's Vigor, 11) Greater Skald's Vigor
12) Rage Power -> Strength Surge
I'm assuming the Extra Rage Power feat doesn't actually let you add more rage powers to raging song, otherwise this advancement plan would look very different for the Skald. I can't actually find a FAQ ruling on this, and discussion on this board seem to be split.
So over time we'd be looking at picking up Ultimate Equipment, Cheliax - Empire of Devils, and Ultimate Combat. We'll certainly have time to buy those later with only 1-2 pathfinder sessions per month. Might also look into Champions of purity for lesser celestial totem via the Flexible Rage spell, combined with Path of Glory for full party healing after combat at the cost of a 2nd and 3rd level spell.