Makes sense; though why would the alligator's death cause her to fly into a rage and fight to the death?
She's completely infatuated with violence, probably people especially. At least that's how I saw it. Bloodlust kind of thing.
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I'm getting into the part with the missions, and I'm concerned the party's not going to have enough to do for 7 weeks, even with a lot of time to rest between missions, so I'm trying to come up with a few more. I'm thinking some kind of protest at the university? Maybe a student is threatening to set themself on fire if Thrune doesn't relax his policies? Any other ideas?
Right, but once the gator gets killed, and the players assume the combat is over, but you're still ticking off rounds, they might catch wind a suprise attack is coming...
Never hurts to let first level adventurers have a moment to catch their breath, especially after fighting an Alligator :-)
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On the subject of rebellion leaders: if you don't have a full party of six PCs (which, I suspect, many groups don't), the rules suggest some NPCs will be able to fill those gaps. I'm assuming we could have any Unique Ally acquired by the party fulfill one of those roles, but none so far have out-and-out said that they would offer to be one of the leaders. I'll probably end up making a DM judgement call on this on a case-by-case basis - Rexus, for instance, isn't sure enough of himself to be one of the leaders, but Laria would be all for it, especially in the initial stages of the rebellion. Are future installments going to suggest which NPCs will assist with the rebellion? Or is this ultimately left to DM discretion?
Creative Director
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On the subject of rebellion leaders: if you don't have a full party of six PCs (which, I suspect, many groups don't), the rules suggest some NPCs will be able to fill those gaps. I'm assuming we could have any Unique Ally acquired by the party fulfill one of those roles, but none so far have out-and-out said that they would offer to be one of the leaders. I'll probably end up making a DM judgement call on this on a case-by-case basis - Rexus, for instance, isn't sure enough of himself to be one of the leaders, but Laria would be all for it, especially in the initial stages of the rebellion. Are future installments going to suggest which NPCs will assist with the rebellion? Or is this ultimately left to DM discretion?
There are no NPC allies specifically called out as being able to fill leadership roles until the 3rd adventure, I believe... but the point is that if the PCs make particularly strong ties with ANY NPC they meet, even those that you put in yourself or that they just sort of randomly latch onto, that once the PCs trust such an NPC that NPC can take on a leadership role. It's very much meant to be a GM judgement call, but it's also intended to make the PCs be hands-on as leaders in the first few adventures so that THEY build up the feeling of ownership over the Silver Ravens rather than letting that sense of ownership slip away into NPCs.
In any event, I believe that the appendix of the 3rd adventure officially presents some NPCs who can take on the role of officer... which is intentional, since by that time the PCs should have established themselves (and thus the players should feel like leaders) and are ready to move on to higher level concerns while leaving the day to day running of the Silver Ravens increasingly in the hands of allies.
You're forgetting good knight Octavius :-)
Thoughts on how the "Rebellion (Kingmaker type) aspect is going for all of you GM's and comments from your players as well please?
My group should clear out The wasps nest this Saturday so we will get into that part after.
Anything to watch out for, mod in or out to make things more interesting, less or more Rebel like and thoughts on this aspect in general??
Looks pretty good when reading it a number of times but in action is what I am VERY curious about gang
Thanks
Tom
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My group has just assigned officers. We're doing the first week on Thursday. Based on my experience playing Kingmaker, it's really easy for it to be a couple of people doing everything while the rest of the table sits idle. I've thus fleshed out officer roles a bit more and requested that everyone rp their concerns for the rebellion. I've also made each player responsible for what their teams do each week. Others can advise them, but they make the decision. I'll update when I see it in action.
Cool, I just can't see whipping out the sheet and have then just fill it out and used just as a game mechanic in your face only thing myself either, trial and error me thinks.
Rexus and or Lana will start to feel out each PC (after they have The Wasp in hand), and then have them each decide indivigually with all other characters not knowing each ones choices I am thinking..??
Then as a group each reveals in character what each took and why :)
Has to be done just right but should not be a problem as this is run in Roll20, then I think I won't just run the week all at once but stagger it out and hit each PC with stuff to do and roll in small interludes so hopefully the "Rebels" will come alive a lot more than just further book work to take care of in between adventuring.
Then I'll gauge what each player has to say about fun and suggestions at the end of the session.
Then modify after, if needed.
Hoping more will post up on their experiences with this soon
Tom
My group has had mixed feelings about the rebellion mechanics. While half of them really enjoy the sort of micromanagey bits of having rumor-bots to go out and collect information for them on whatever mission they're about to undertake and freedom fighters to clear the streets for them or whatever else... the other half feel that it's a little too tedious and taking focus off of the heroes.
Since half the group seems content to let years fly by like Kingmaker and the other half is falling asleep, I've seeded in more PC-relevant missions and events to encourage them to take a more active role from week to week. Our alchemist, for instance, is a graduate of the Alabaster Academy and is going to be rather unhappy when he hears that the Order of the Rack is planning a Clarity Pyre of all his favorite books on the morrow...
So I'm not sure if I've missed it in the gazette, but how common are slaves in Kintargo? Are they likely to be seen all around the place, or would they be restricted to the upper class, or just not at all present except when explicitly listed (such as the captain's slaves in Turn of the Torrent)?
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Quick question - the Fushi sisters are listed as a unique team that can take the Earn Gold or Gather Information actions. Both of these actions use the team's tier to modify the result - Earn Gold mutliplies the result, and Gather Information adds twice the tier. The Fushi sisters don't have a tier listed. As a rule of thumb, I'd use the book that the PCs find the team in as their tier if one is not listed, so the sisters would be a Tier 1 team for these purposes. Anyone have any other suggestions on how this should work?
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Creative Director
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So I'm not sure if I've missed it in the gazette, but how common are slaves in Kintargo? Are they likely to be seen all around the place, or would they be restricted to the upper class, or just not at all present except when explicitly listed (such as the captain's slaves in Turn of the Torrent)?
Not common at all. Technically, slavery in Kintargo is legal, and there's certainly more now than before now that Thrune's got an increased presence in the city, but overall, they're not all that common at all. Kintargo has the LEAST amount of slaves of any city in Cheliax, in fact.
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Creative Director
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Quick question - the Fushi sisters are listed as a unique team that can take the Earn Gold or Gather Information actions. Both of these actions use the team's tier to modify the result - Earn Gold mutliplies the result, and Gather Information adds twice the tier. The Fushi sisters don't have a tier listed. As a rule of thumb, I'd use the book that the PCs find the team in as their tier if one is not listed, so the sisters would be a Tier 1 team for these purposes. Anyone have any other suggestions on how this should work?
If no tier is listed, assume tier 1. Bonus teams are handy in that they don't take up a "team slot" but they aren't always going to be as good as a tier 2 or 3 team the PCs hire.
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If no tier is listed, assume tier 1. Bonus teams are handy in that they don't take up a "team slot" but they aren't always going to be as good as a tier 2 or 3 team the PCs hire.
This is particularly true, because teams like the Fushi Sisters can't be upgraded. All the listed Tier 2 and Tier 3 teams upgrade from specific Tier 1 and Tier 2 teams, respectively, so an untyped team like the Sisters can't be upgraded.
Anything new on any GM running the rebel sheet, anyone add anything extra bsides what is listed for events, non events or anything else?
Sadly my group has not gotten to this stage as of yet so I'm still kinda in the dark on how good/bad or so so this AP's Mechanic is.
The players seem quite fired up about it at least!!
Tom
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I've done the first week now, and my players were able to work together to make decisions. They recruited supporters and a team, and they may have made it to level 3 already, depending how upkeep rolls go. They're making up stories for the teams. They recruited the Fushi sisters, too, whom one of my players has deemed the most compelling NPCs he's seen in awhile. I decided to give them the personalities of the characters in Little Women. Treep's drawing sketches for the rebellion's uniform.
On the (slightly off-) topic of slavery ...
Which countries allow slavery - and of which type, if they do differentiate between them?
Do any countries differentiate between the legality of enslaving (the act of making someone a slave), the slave trade (the buying/selling of already enslaved beings), and the transport of slaves (bringing already enslaved beings in/out of the country, such as when a slave-owning merchant brings his personal slaves across national borders into a nation which has outlawed slavery)?
Do national borders of countries which have outlawed slavery deter the Hellknight Order of the Chain?
Where (if anywhere) would I find answers to these questions in Golarion canon?
The Andoran book has a few sections about how the Eagle Knights fight slavery abroad.
IIRC its legal in Cheliax, Molthune, Katapesh at the least. I think its legal in Absalom, Nex, Rahadoum and Thuvia.
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I'm running a very informal game for my husband and roommate, and having the weekly rebellion activities helps tremendously with pacing. Both guys work second shift, so we've been playing an in-game week every other evening or so to help them unwind after work.
They're very conscious of building up the rebellion slowly ("how to boil a frog" and all that) and are focusing on fitting rebellion activities in around the daily lives of their PCs. Each week has consisted of an event and a mission, followed by a rundown (and relevant RP/bookkeeping where necessary) of what the PCs are doing on their own time. Then we run through the sheet together, with each person rolling for the teams their PCs are managing. It makes for great, two-hour mini-sessions that we've *really* enjoyed. The guys just finished dealing with Blosodriette, and will be heading to investigate the murders in the Nursery next time we play.
For us, the rebellion mechanic has allowed for a very freeform game while giving us just enough of a structured framework to stay on track. I think the cap on the rebellion's rank will help nudge the PCs forward when it's time so that they don't chase too many rabbit trails and get nowhere. I'm not sure if this AP (at least if you're using the mechanic in question) is the right choice for a group that needs an intense, punchy story for tight gaming schedules. But it makes an AWESOME "first sandbox" adventure for those of us who want to try something with a little more freedom but are intimidated by the concept of GMing a sandbox game.
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I'm running a very informal game for my husband and roommate, and having the weekly rebellion activities helps tremendously with pacing. Both guys work second shift, so we've been playing an in-game week every other evening or so to help them unwind after work.
Nice. However, it may get more difficult as you continue through the AP and the final 'dungeon crawl' of each installment gets longer. They've been including several short 'missions' in each book, but the final dungeon may not fit in to a "two-hour mini-session". You could try to schedule those for days when you will have more time or split them up across multiple sessions.
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I'm running a very informal game for my husband and roommate, and having the weekly rebellion activities helps tremendously with pacing. Both guys work second shift, so we've been playing an in-game week every other evening or so to help them unwind after work.Nice. However, it may get more difficult as you continue through the AP and the final 'dungeon crawl' of each installment gets longer. They've been including several short 'missions' in each book, but the final dungeon may not fit in to a "two-hour mini-session". You could try to schedule those for days when you will have more time or split them up across multiple sessions.
I think my goal for now is to keep finding places to break the action into small chunks. WIth other APs we try to play on the weekends when there's more time, but with a medically fragile toddler (heck, just with a TODDLER in general) that's hard to come by regularly. The upside is that, because we all live together, it's easier to utilize those spare snippets of time that wouldn't amount to anything if one or more of us had to drive somewhere.
I'm just really pleased with how easy In Hell's Bright Shadow has made playing this way.
Very nice, I thought my party would get to it for sure but they spent a whole lot of time (in pretty good ways no less though) to take down the Wasps nest, but not get back up for them to truely do their first week.
Rexus and Laria made some secret PC by PC visits the night before the party went down to the Larder. To feel each of them out on what each could offer the new rising Silver Ravens. Promped by the Unchained Rogue up to typical game play, lifting a bar maids weekly earnings from her the night before, almost getting caught by Thrune undercover spies celebrating the put down of the Opera house riot. Then finding out that her child would then starve so the others stepped in and had a small "talk" to Mr Rogue and his old ways, NOT a way to gain trust pone must say :)
Then once down and looking for the secret door (they never bothed to ask where and how to open it specifically.....) he started eating all of the stored goods while searching, "surlely no one will notice eating all the tasty and expensive sea food so I'll just have a nip to eat".......
LOL
Man is Laria going to give him 9 kinds of hell and question if he could add anything to the yet unformed Ravens!!!
So the party kind of knows what they may want to do, but little do thney know that Rexus and Laria will have their final say (at first) in where they end up, and if thnigs go well they will let the Ravens "fly" and the party can switch around as they fell what would do the most good.
But an extra encounter or two I added down in the Wasps nest was almost their undoing charging around with no regard, as I just knew they would do exactly that. 20 point buy and 6 players so had to modify more than a bit so far.
So thanks for the extra feedback everyone and keep em coming this will be almost the first thing we kill tackle next session, after they find, or are found by the last thing creeping around down there, LOL :)
Our usual session time over at Roll20 is about 5 hours per but can go to 7 and we are through the 4th session.
Tom
A question that just came up for us: In the first part of this AP, the Rebellion has a max rank of 5. Does that mean that the Rebellion can't gain more than 39 supporters? (So any additional supporters gained through various missions are lost?) Or does that just mean that any additional supporters won't do anything to increase their rank?
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Creative Director
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A question that just came up for us: In the first part of this AP, the Rebellion has a max rank of 5. Does that mean that the Rebellion can't gain more than 39 supporters? (So any additional supporters gained through various missions are lost?) Or does that just mean that any additional supporters won't do anything to increase their rank?
Additional supporters won't do anything to increase the rank until you unlock tier 10 in the next adventure. If you DO manage to gather enough supporters for rank 10 while being locked at rank five, unlocking rank 10 WOULD let you skip ranks 6 to 9 and go directly to 10 though. But a more organic buildup is more satisfying... if you're maxing out your rank too early, your group should probably go adventuring more often. ;-P
Additional supporters won't do anything to increase the rank until you unlock tier 10 in the next adventure. If you DO manage to gather enough supporters for rank 10 while being locked at rank five, unlocking rank 10 WOULD let you skip ranks 6 to 9 and go directly to 10 though. But a more organic buildup is more satisfying... if you're maxing out your rank too early, your group should probably go adventuring more often. ;-P
Great! Thanks!
P.s.: Really enjoying this AP so far. Half the encounters have consisted of the players figuring out how to use Bluff or Disguise Self to trick their way into getting what they want... A great change of pace!
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Mold and mildew are the biggest enemies for homeowners, and most houses and businesses use cedar shavings or charcoal to try and manage humidity and musty smells. Food is plentiful thanks to the ocean and fertile, rain-soaked plains, but also spoils quickly thanks to the climate, so much of the city's traditional cuisine involves more salt, vinegar, or alcohol than other parts of Cheliax, and bread is less of a staple than rice and grains.
The city itself is pretty hilly, and lower streets (especially Old Kintargo and Redroof) tend to flood in the rainier winter months
Thanks for the details! We had a really good "homecoming" type scene in our last session, and having some of these food and climate details really helped inform the imagery for my character's house and give it emotional resonance.
So, lots of fish and chips. Kintargo is sounding better and better!
I am now very hungry...
Okay, about the info provided by Crystal: Cedar shavings and charcoal to manage humidity/smells? Would either of these be strewn on the floor or hung from the ceiling or what? I know, nit-picking, but as a Geography teacher, I like to know these things...
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Assistant Developer
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So, lots of fish and chips. Kintargo is sounding better and better!I am now very hungry...
Okay, about the info provided by Crystal: Cedar shavings and charcoal to manage humidity/smells? Would either of these be strewn on the floor or hung from the ceiling or what? I know, nit-picking, but as a Geography teacher, I like to know these things...
Shoved into corners and closets in low-income homes, and sometimes strewn around the floor if it smells especially strongly (for cedar at least), but middle-class families would tie them up in saches or in small brass or tin mesh boxes and place them on shelves or hang them overhead.
Kintargo Sewers
OK, so In Hell's Bright Shadow, we are told that:
"a sprawling undercity exists under much of southern Kintargo, where the city’s original buildings were buried and built over to raise the low-lying reaches of Jarvis End, Old Kintargo, and Redroof above the seasonal flood zone. Many of these tunnels now double as sewers, while to the north, the more modern drainage tunnels below Villegre and the Greens are less prone to concealing hidden chambers. Both regions are somewhat dangerous, with the typical infestation of sewer-dwelling criminals and scavengers and long-forgotten traps and hazards."
But are there any details anywhere on the layout of the sewers? The PCs in my game are starting to want to explore the sewers as a way of moving around without being spotted by the Dotari, and I can make it all up, but if there are more official plans I'd rather use them. Just knowing where the main sewer lines run would be helpful. Am I missing something? Also, what's a good response if the characters start looking for maps of the sewers? Would something like this be available at Crissali's?
Sewers, like mazes are really hard to do, book one of council of thieves had some example sewer encounter maps, nothing special by any means, book 5 of Carrion Crown has a larger sewer lair of you have that, otherwise I'm just gonna wing it. :-)
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Creative Director
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The sewers under Kintargo ended up not really playing a big role in the overall adventure, although they do make "cameos" in parts 1 and 4, and are of course implied in parts 2 and 3. If you want to make them a bigger part of your game, perhaps as a way for the Silver Ravens to move around the city easier, feel free to make them as extensive or as simple as you want. The EASIEST way is to assume the main sewer routes roughly follow the main streets of the city, of course.
If you want to make the PCs "earn" the sewer routes, feel free to have them have to fight a sewer themed monster—oozes, otyughs, skum, faceless stalkers, naughty tieflings, and wererats are all good choices—to unlock travel between a safehouse in one neighborhood and a safehouse in another—once that happens, the PCs should be able to move back and forth between those locations without fearing wandering monsters. You can also give the Silver Raiders a +1 bonus to their Security for each "sewer route" they create, but you should cap this at a maximum bonus of +4 so it doesn't get TOO out of control.
The sewers under Kintargo ended up not really playing a big role in the overall adventure, although they do make "cameos" in parts 1 and 4, and are of course implied in parts 2 and 3. If you want to make them a bigger part of your game, perhaps as a way for the Silver Ravens to move around the city easier, feel free to make them as extensive or as simple as you want. The EASIEST way is to assume the main sewer routes roughly follow the main streets of the city, of course.
If you want to make the PCs "earn" the sewer routes, feel free to have them have to fight a sewer themed monster—oozes, otyughs, skum, faceless stalkers, naughty tieflings, and wererats are all good choices—to unlock travel between a safehouse in one neighborhood and a safehouse in another—once that happens, the PCs should be able to move back and forth between those locations without fearing wandering monsters. You can also give the Silver Raiders a +1 bonus to their Security for each "sewer route" they create, but you should cap this at a maximum bonus of +4 so it doesn't get TOO out of control.
thanks. I wanted to check that there wasn't anything official (or that there wasn't going to be official) before I created what I needed in my game.
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So I am about to start running this adventure. I am having a bit of trouble with the set up.
First is there some assumption that the players know each other prior to the protest? Right now my players are saying they don't. One is a human noble, one is a changling pirate ect ect and it is very possible that they do not know each other.
So the protest/riot happens and then big ole hell hound comes out and everyone runs. What keeps the players together? What makes them stop to save Rexus? I mean they are being chased by the thugs and watchmen, why are they stopping to help this random guy?
So many people have disappeared in the last couple of weeks when caught by the Thrune's goons, why stop?
I know it sounds silly but I am just having trouble finding a way to keep random strangers together after a riot was broken up and even more trouble with how Rexus would trust these unknown people with such private information. What if they are Thrune's agents?
Any help would be appreciated.
Because for three hours during the protest your companions have a chance to get to know each other, chat, and start a friendship. When the protest turns to riot, then that friendship is being forged by fire.
You can also emphasize overhearing concerns in the crowd about people vanishing or the like. Also, if one of the players was looking for the gloved man, they see that the man attacked has one glove, as they were seeking.
Also, they didn't likely get to loot any of the dead during the riot. There are four unconscious guards there and five more live ones to attack and then loot.
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Assistant Developer
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So I am about to start running this adventure. I am having a bit of trouble with the set up.
First is there some assumption that the players know each other prior to the protest? Right now my players are saying they don't. One is a human noble, one is a changling pirate ect ect and it is very possible that they do not know each other.
The assumption is that the PCs either begin knowing one another, or at least being vaguely aware of one another as friends-of-friends/contacts (and since they all assemble in the same place for a common purpose, in what is effectively a small town, they likely have a few common friends), or else meet and get to know each other a little during the protest before things go off the rails. Of course, you can just say they all happen to flee in the same direction, and give them a few minutes' breathing room to possibly tend one anothers' wounds or figure out what went wrong. Several of the campaign traits specifically revolve around seeking out allies, hopefully offering some inspiration for PCs' backgrounds/personalities.
So the protest/riot happens and then big ole hell hound comes out and everyone runs. What keeps the players together? What makes them stop to save Rexus? I mean they are being chased by the thugs and watchmen, why are they stopping to help this random guy?
So many people have disappeared in the last couple of weeks when caught by the Thrune's goons, why stop?
The PCs stumble across the beating after they've lost their own pursuers, making it less dangerous for them to stop for a moment. In theory, the PCs are protesting because they find the current state of affairs--people being attacked or disappearing--intolerable, and should jump at the chance to help do something about it, or at least unload some frustration. If the PCs don't stop to help a fellow citizen, then any PC who selects the "Meeting a Contact" campaign trait can immediately recognize Rexus's single black glove and realize he is the contact they were supposed to meet.
It probably doesn't hurt that they outnumber the (conscious) guards.
I know it sounds silly but I am just having trouble finding a way to keep random strangers together after a riot was broken up and even more trouble with how Rexus would trust these unknown people with such private information. What if they are Thrune's agents?
Any help would be appreciated.
As with any AP, getting the group together when they've decided they all start out as random strangers can be frustrating. It makes your job as GM a lot easier to convince the players to not start as COMPLETE strangers, and instead begin as vague acquaintances or share some common background element that helps tie them together. In my home game, I like to ask PCs how they know one other PC. Maybe the noble is a quiet patron of the Bellflower Network and makes periodic donations at the Longroads Coffee House, and the pirate is one of Laria's smuggler contacts, and they've seen each other in passing on occasion and, even if they've never so much as said hello, they can both be reasonably certain they're on the same side.
If that doesn't work, you can bring them togetehr with a common patron. Skip the whole "Rexus being attacked" scene, and simply have "Jackdaw" contact them individually, one at a time. He talks about seeing them at the protest and knowing that they all have their own reasons for wanting to bring Thrune down, but that none of them are strong enough individually to accomplish such a goal, after which he dispatches them on their first quest to start rekindling the long-forgotten Silver Ravens. You can have Rexus keep up his charade a little longer in this case, but with occasional hints that he's in over his head.
The original "save Rexus" scene was meant to set a bedrock assumption that "Jackdaw" is in over his head, and maybe not the impressive figure the urban legends paint him as. It's not strictly necessary for the plot, and you can accomplish the same thing by making the disguised Rexus seem occasionally overwhelmed or unsure of his decisions. The end intention is for Rexus to be a valuable team member and equal, rather than a wise and distant leader.
This might be a wierd question compared to the others asked here, but I'm extremely confused on how the map for the Red Jills' works.
I get that the top building is the church, with the little 25'x30' section being the bell tower. But the orphanage below it confuses me. It -appears- that the room where the bedrolls are is an enclosed area due to the door leading into it from the west - however, if thats the case, then the rope ladder just goes right through the wall. But if its an open roof, then how does that door work?
Its bothering me more than it should. Halp. Also what are the little black circles?
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I'm kind of surprised Abdarans aren't more featured in this AP. I don't have all the books but from what I hear, they don't factor too prominantly. This is word because Thrune is going against the tenants of their faith. I know Abdar is lawful, but two of his big tenants are fair and lawful trade (which the 8th proclamation reduces) and that laws are meant for the betterment of society. It says somewhere that laws that serve no purpose or that don't help society (like Thrunes clearly sadistic laws that he makes for his own amusement) are antithetical to Abdar'd belief and should be abolished.
Just a thought.
Obviously, Nox was built with the Melee NPC Heroic Array - exchanging the Cha Base Value for the Dex Base Value. If you'd re-exchange this, you'll have the Dex back to 13. And after adding the devil-bound modifier to Dex, you'll get a nice 15 - enough for Combat Reflexes to make sense. Even if I'm not "Cha is a dump stat" endorser, I'll make the changes to Nox for my upcoming campaign.
Cheers!
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She has combat reflexes as a prerequisite for Stand StillObviously, Nox was built with the Melee NPC Heroic Array - exchanging the Cha Base Value for the Dex Base Value. If you'd re-exchange this, you'll have the Dex back to 13. And after adding the devil-bound modifier to Dex, you'll get a nice 15 - enough for Combat Reflexes to make sense. Even if I'm not "Cha is a dump stat" endorser, I'll make the changes to Nox for my upcoming campaign.
Cheers!
It also lets her make attacks of opportunity while flat-footed, which is handy.