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The purpose of this thread is to clarify questions arising in this adventure.
This thread is a GM Reference thread for Part 1 of the Hell's Rebels Adventure Path. Links for the individual threads for each part are as follows:
Okay, I jumped straight to the Bestiary. Awesome for my Planescape games, each of the monsters is very iconic for that setting in my mind! With the Scrivenite though, they are supposed to be from Axis and seem to be described as very lawful outsiders, yet their alignment is given as N as opposed to LN. Is that intentional or a typo?
In regards to the map of the encounter at Aria Park:
The map for the protest is noted to have an area outlined showing where the crowd is placed. However, looking at the PDF map, it doesn't seem to have that marked. What is the approximate size of the area so I can note that for my home game?We decided to not clutter the map with additional tags, but alas, didn't adjust the text properly. The exact size of the crowd can be adjusted as you wish, but I"d suggest putting in at least three dozen protesters, if not more. Fill up the plaza and the street to either side if you can, but don't use up EVERY square.
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Okay, I jumped straight to the Bestiary. Awesome for my Planescape games, each of the monsters is very iconic for that setting in my mind! With the Scrivenite though, they are supposed to be from Axis and seem to be described as very lawful outsiders, yet their alignment is given as N as opposed to LN. Is that intentional or a typo?
It is indeed, unfortunately, a typo. They should be lawful neutral—as evidenced by the fact that they have the Lawful subtype.
Oh, I meant to ask something else. What is the general climate for Kintargo? It sounds like it has a typical hot summer/cold winter styled climate, but I want to make sure there's nothing else of particular note to keep in mind.
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Oh, I meant to ask something else. What is the general climate for Kintargo? It sounds like it has a typical hot summer/cold winter styled climate, but I want to make sure there's nothing else of particular note to keep in mind.
San Francisco should do the trick as a real-world comparison.
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Perhaps I've missed something in speed-reading the AP, but I don't really understand how this weekly society upkeep is supposed to go. How do you track time as a GM within the campaign? Should each mission be assumed to take a week, or is there some other mechanic?
The pacing and timing of the entire AP is mostly left to you and your players. How long a mission takes depends on how long the player characters take to do it. Some groups don't mind rushing through APs and finishing adventures in the span of days or weeks, while others do lots of downtime or pauses between sections.
Find a pace that's good for you and your group and go from there.
That said... the AP does reward building up the rebellion, and there's not REALLY a penalty for "sitting around for a few weeks" now and then to get in several Rebellion phases. Certain events in missions in the adventures, once they start, can't be put on pause, but most of them can be as PCs retreat to rest, regroup, and plot.
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So was it intentional, or my subconscious, that Rexus, the trans npc, bares a shocking resemblance to Tim Curry?
Also, I thought that the characters back story pretty great, he hasn't always had acceptance, but he has from those who loved him is a powerful image.
It's your subconscious, I suspect. I'm not seeing it myself, and "make him look like Tim Curry" was not part of the art order.
Oh, I meant to ask something else. What is the general climate for Kintargo? It sounds like it has a typical hot summer/cold winter styled climate, but I want to make sure there's nothing else of particular note to keep in mind.San Francisco should do the trick as a real-world comparison.
Sunny San Francisco, or foggy San Francisco?
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Creative Director
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Sunny San Francisco, or foggy San Francisco?Oh, I meant to ask something else. What is the general climate for Kintargo? It sounds like it has a typical hot summer/cold winter styled climate, but I want to make sure there's nothing else of particular note to keep in mind.San Francisco should do the trick as a real-world comparison.
They're both San Francisco, so both of them. Seasonal and stuff and all that.
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So was it intentional, or my subconscious, that Rexus, the trans npc, bares a shocking resemblance to Tim Curry?
Also, I thought that the characters back story pretty great, he hasn't always had acceptance, but he has from those who loved him is a powerful image.
Entirely your imagination.
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Sunny San Francisco, or foggy San Francisco?Oh, I meant to ask something else. What is the general climate for Kintargo? It sounds like it has a typical hot summer/cold winter styled climate, but I want to make sure there's nothing else of particular note to keep in mind.San Francisco should do the trick as a real-world comparison.
It's a small coastal plain wedged between mountains and a very cold ocean, so the weather doesn't get too hot in the summers, but winters get pretty cold. It's cloudy almost all the time thanks to the ocean winds and nearby mountains, and almost every day is marked by thick fog and light drizzle. The precipitation is mild enough that most locals make do with wool cloaks and coats instead--umbrellas are a sign of visitors, and are quickly torn apart by the ocean winds. Thunderstorms and blizzards are extremely rare, but so are sunny days.
Mold and mildew are the biggest enemies for homeowners, and most houses and businesses use cedar shavings or charcoal to try and manage humidity and musty smells. Food is plentiful thanks to the ocean and fertile, rain-soaked plains, but also spoils quickly thanks to the climate, so much of the city's traditional cuisine involves more salt, vinegar, or alcohol than other parts of Cheliax, and bread is less of a staple than rice and grains.
The city itself is pretty hilly, and lower streets (especially Old Kintargo and Redroof) tend to flood in the rainier winter months
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So, I've read over In Hell's Bright Shadow, and I've come upon an interesting character that I just love.
And I read a certain part of her NPC profile. Now what I'm having trouble with, and what I want to do are:
I'm not too terribly creative during seasonal changes due to hayfever and sinus infections, heh heh ^^;
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So, I've read over In Hell's Bright Shadow, and I've come upon an interesting character that I just love.
** spoiler omitted **
And I read a certain part of her NPC profile. Now what I'm having trouble with, and what I want to do are:
** spoiler omitted **
I'm not too terribly creative during seasonal changes due to hayfever and sinus infections, heh heh ^^;
GM thread, no need for spoilers.
Still reading through so I haven't gotten completely through her plot line. I think that, unless a party member does manage to be part of that bloodline, it would be very difficult. This is a LE outsider, the CG actions of the silver Ravens, rebellion against a tyrannical authority, these things are the antithesis of its being.
That being said, she prefers being released from her contract by the noble family, or being banished to hell as opposed to being bond on the material plane. It's possible she might sign a new contract with the PCs, offering her loyalty and service for a year on the condition that the PCs coerce a member of the noble line into freeing her at the end of it, or tearing up the contract at the end of it (though this is less in her favour as she can get them to tear it up by pestering them enough too probably). This action would be secured by the PCs souls (maybe just one of them) to make it worth her while if the don't fulfill their end within the time limit. It's how I would run it. But it'd be pretty difficult and require much diplomacy and bribes and such.
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Huh, never thought about a new contract.... interesting. And actually, two of my players are doing the LG "stand against unlawful tyranny" thing. With the end of goal of just getting rid of Barzillai personally, rather than getting rid of Thrune itself. Very interesting mindsets I don't want to punish, you know?
I'm not too terribly creative during seasonal changes due to hayfever and sinus infections, heh heh ^^;
You can always change the family it's tied to and make it one of the PCs family. If the PC's family is not the 'type of family' who would have done that then create a black sheep of that family who actually did.
Or circumstances could have been very bad that someone in the past thought this was the best course of action.
It may actually be a good RP opportunity for a PC to have to deal with it.
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In the original draft, Blosodriette's service was originally tied to the physical contract, so it could be transferred to new masters over the generations. You could always use that original idea: Whoever holds her contract (whether they realize what it is or not) can command her (though she can be as creative as any other devil in how she carries out her orders).
Hey, it's still in planning stages, but I am planning on restarting my Council of Thieves/Slumbering Tsar game, sending the players back in time to become Hell's Rebels.
Any thoughts on the rebellion rules (the rebellion sheet and rebellion advancement and rebellion event tables form the Player's Guide.) It just seems odd to me that the first time it is mentioned in Hell's Bright Shadow is to say that, well, you can use it or not <shrug> it's sort of up to you <cough>. Not exactly a ringing endorsement. There isn't even a printed version of the rules, unless you print out your own copy from the pdf. Was there disagreement about it among the authors? Why wasn't it included in Hell's Bright Shadow?
Without having seen the next three sections, it is hard to tell how well it is going to work, but it looks like the the rebellion events are pretty weak. It reminds me of the notoriety score in the second book of Jade Regent, which I fudged when I ran that adventure, because it was too random, too mechanical, and just too easy.
The main point of it seems to be to remind the players that they just can't go walking down the main street waving their arms and yelling "Woo-hoo, we're the rebellion, look at us!" Frankly, I don't understand how Nox if she can control minds hasn't figured out exactly where the PC's HQ is.
I'd really like to play up the converting the people to your cause element of the story, but more with roll playing than with using those rules.
I haven't gone into details playing with them, but at a glance it seems a good general framework to make the rebellion happen without micromanaging. You still get the individual allies and special teams, but you can get the general supporters as well with the system. There are individual actions that players can strategize with, and the it encourages players to be stealthy and cautious with rebellion or crack down. The fact that careless actions can lead to reducing the population of the city, and that the overall your rebellions success is determined by how many casualties there are, strikes me as a good way to get invested.
Unlike the caravan system (which had little interesting decisions to make aside from optimizing stats and clearly broken battle stats), this one appears promising. I have no problem with the rules being in the free handbook instead of taking up page count in module.
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"You can use it or not" is standard for all subsystems that Paizo introduces in APs. Even Kingmaker had a 'Kingdom in the Background' sidebar.
Unlike the caravan system (which had little interesting decisions to make aside from optimizing stats and clearly broken battle stats), this one appears promising. I have no problem with the rules being in the free handbook instead of taking up page count in module.
I agree about the caravan rules. They were useful for calculating carrying capacity, but did not make much sense for resolving combat. I just treated each wagon as a separate target in battle.
Any opinion on Nox? The only thing I can figure is that she goes to her boss, and says, "There are 6 PCs below a coffee shop, lets have at them." Any he says, "Don't bother me with little stuff, I'm planning bigger things. Stay out of my office until you find some enemy 9th level or above." I'm thinking of playing her as basically a good person who doesn't want to do her job for Mr. Evil.
I'm also curious about the Rebellion rules. How does a GM determine the level of the Rebellion - by fiat? I've looked over the PDFs of the Player's Guide and the first part of the AP, but nothing stands out as to helping a GM determine what factors are behind the Rebellion gaining levels, outside of the fact that it has a maximum level of 5 for Book 1, 15 for Book 2, and 20 for Book 3.
I'm also curious about the Rebellion rules. How does a GM determine the level of the Rebellion - by fiat? I've looked over the PDFs of the Player's Guide and the first part of the AP, but nothing stands out as to helping a GM determine what factors are behind the Rebellion gaining levels, outside of the fact that it has a maximum level of 5 for Book 1, 15 for Book 2, and 20 for Book 3.
It's based on supporters. Gaining supporters is essentially like gaining exp to level up. If, at the end of attrition upkeep phase, you have enough supporters to gain a rank, you do.
You never lose rebellion ranks for losing supporters.
Okay, thanks! :)
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Any opinion on Nox? The only thing I can figure is that she goes to her boss, and says, "There are 6 PCs below a coffee shop, lets have at them." Any he says, "Don't bother me with little stuff, I'm planning bigger things. Stay out of my office until you find some enemy 9th level or above." I'm thinking of playing her as basically a good person who doesn't want to do her job for Mr. Evil.
Nox doesn't have any mind-controlling or mind-reading powers, and she has no way of knowing that six random people are hiding in a secret basement below a random coffee shop on the other side of town. And even then, the rebellion starts out as some minor rabble-rousers who don't interact much with Thrune's agents until the end of the first book (and book two specifically goes into finding a more secure headquarters). As far as Thrune was concerned, his only potential threats in Kintargo--the former Lord-Mayor, the Victocora family, Shensen, and the Archivists--have all been wiped out, and anything left over are annoying pests.
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One curiosity I wonder, is.. can Blodsodlette be redeemed? From her bio I assume she was LE when alive, based on her memories. But since she remembers being enslaved, I wonder if finding out how she died and the like might lead to her redemption. It's a curiosity I have, but I'm big on second chances.
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One curiosity I wonder, is.. can Blodsodlette be redeemed? From her bio I assume she was LE when alive, based on her memories. But since she remembers being enslaved, I wonder if finding out how she died and the like might lead to her redemption. It's a curiosity I have, but I'm big on second chances.
There is a mention in her writeup that ten years of isolation have forced her to think about her actions and her responsibility for her own fate, hinting that she might be more redeemable than your average imp, especially since she only ever knew cruelty in life and has no experience of kindness from those with power over her.
What's the date of the public protest?
Dates to begin APs are usually up to the group playing them.
Unlike the caravan system (which had little interesting decisions to make aside from optimizing stats and clearly broken battle stats), this one appears promising. I have no problem with the rules being in the free handbook instead of taking up page count in module.I agree about the caravan rules. They were useful for calculating carrying capacity, but did not make much sense for resolving combat. I just treated each wagon as a separate target in battle.
Any opinion on Nox? The only thing I can figure is that she goes to her boss, and says, "There are 6 PCs below a coffee shop, lets have at them." Any he says, "Don't bother me with little stuff, I'm planning bigger things. Stay out of my office until you find some enemy 9th level or above." I'm thinking of playing her as basically a good person who doesn't want to do her job for Mr. Evil.
To each his own, I suppose, but considering: 1) her alignment is LE, 2) she willingly traded her soul for some devilish powers, and 3) she is a personal bodyguard to a member of house thrune who also happens to be a higher up in the church of asmodeus, I'm having a hard time seeing her as anything other than an evil dirtbag who wants nothing more than to happily and loyally serve "mr. evil"
She traded her soul and agreed to extra torment when she dies so she could gain the power she would not otherwise have gotten.
There is nothing in there which says "just doing my job" - no, this is a person who came up from nothing, looks at those below her as dirt to be stomped on, and sicced a hell hound on hapless civilians who were instigated to riot by agents she had placed in the crowd.
If she doesn't want to do her job for Thrune, it is because she wants his job. She wants his power. And if she can pull him down or have someone else pull hi down so she can seize power? Then she will.
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Dates to begin APs are usually up to the group playing them.
Yes, usually that is the case but there are some cases where certain parts of the AP are supposed to occur during certain seasons.
So if there's no such constraint, we'll start this AP on September 2, 2015 or Day 2, Month of Rova, Year 4715.
Game on!
Another question - from the looks of things, Supporters and Members are two separate things - when the PCs restart the Silver Ravens, they have 0 Supporters (while having two probable Allies). It seems obvious that Members of the Rebellion are separate from Supporters, but it also would be likely that you draw new members for various teams from your Supporters.
Does recruiting members to the Silver Ravens reduce the number of Supporters you have? If not, then if the number of Supporters decline to under the number of Members for various reasons, do you have Teams end up disabled because they're undermanned?
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Another question - from the looks of things, Supporters and Members are two separate things - when the PCs restart the Silver Ravens, they have 0 Supporters (while having two probable Allies). It seems obvious that Members of the Rebellion are separate from Supporters, but it also would be likely that you draw new members for various teams from your Supporters.
Does recruiting members to the Silver Ravens reduce the number of Supporters you have? If not, then if the number of Supporters decline to under the number of Members for various reasons, do you have Teams end up disabled because they're undermanned?
Supporters are the revolution's experience points; they're people in the city who support them and share their goals, but do NOT take part in the actual rebellion activities.
Members do NOT count as supporters. Members include the PCs, any allied NPCs they gain, and the individuals who make up the revolution teams.
Recruiting members to the Silver Ravens does not impact your supporters. Likewise, losing supporters does not reduce your membership. They're two different things.
Heh. I'm just full of questions, I see! ^^;;
Under Decoding the Documents, it states that players can help Rexus in translating and decoding the documents. Are they able to do that if they lack one of the languages in question (most likely Strix)? If they are missing a language, how much would the difficulty of the Linguistics check increase by to compensate for this?
Would the characters be able to use Linguistics to Aid Other for Rexus even without knowing the languages, and if so, does this reduce the amount of time needed to decipher the documents?
And seeing most of the documents are in code, do the pages captured from Merindius Sarini stand out from the others? Is there anything in the ledger that is the shell for the contract that would be considered valuable, or might those captured documents end up as extraneous that can be used as kindling (or worse) or otherwise thrown out?
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Heh. I'm just full of questions, I see! ^^;;
Under Decoding the Documents, it states that players can help Rexus in translating and decoding the documents. Are they able to do that if they lack one of the languages in question (most likely Strix)? If they are missing a language, how much would the difficulty of the Linguistics check increase by to compensate for this?
Would the characters be able to use Linguistics to Aid Other for Rexus even without knowing the languages, and if so, does this reduce the amount of time needed to decipher the documents?
And seeing most of the documents are in code, do the pages captured from Merindius Sarini stand out from the others? Is there anything in the ledger that is the shell for the contract that would be considered valuable, or might those captured documents end up as extraneous that can be used as kindling (or worse) or otherwise thrown out?
Without knowing the language, you can't really help. The adventure expects Rexus to be the one to eventually translate the info, leaving the PCs to do other things, but a PC who can speak all three of those languages and who has the 1 rank can either help or do it on her own with Rexus helping. That said, a PC being the primary translator means that she's not gonna be able to adventure much. You can help and still adventure.
It should be obvious that the documents are of interest in any event, simply due to their unusual nature. If a PC is about to throw them out or something, give the party Perception and Linguistics checks to see if anyone notices they might be valuable... and just have whoever rolls highest make that discovery, regardless of the roll. It's pretty important for the PCs to learn the information from these documents.
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Hello!
Stumbled through a reading of the first book and, as the designated
driverDM, I do like how things are done/presented etc.Just a question. Might there be hints or tips or other links of 'Filling out' the Noble houses? Other than the name of the leader of each house and a brief synopsis (Right word?) I was trying to think of more details to add.
I have players who are pretty much all working Noble stuff into their back ground (The local Hell Night group has wonderful back story fluff ^^ )
So... being able to 'fluff' out the Noble houses of both allies and protagonists will add to the game.
I also realized, in talking with a freind/player, that the Gérard Depardieu movie 'Cyrano de Bergerac' has some wonderful flavor which seems inspirational towards the 'atmosphere' of Hell's Rebels. ^^
There's going to be more informaiton here and there on the noble houses as the adventures progress. Illustrations of leaders, partial maps of some locations, more info overall... but it's spread out through all the APs. One more reason why it's a good idea to, if you CAN wait, wait for the full AP to be in hand before you start. I do understand how hard it is to wait that long though before getting started...
Another question: How do the Asmodean Redactors get 15 hit points? Even if they were unchained Monks (and I am tempted to make them so when I eventually run this), I can only figure them to get 14 hit points. If they were 2nd level and didn't have Toughness, then I could see 15 (if you round up their HPs at 2nd level)... but that doesn't square with the other stats.
I'm just curious if I'm missing something. Mind you, giving these low-level mooks a few extra HPs will help them last slightly longer, but I was just unsure how they managed their HP level.
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Another question: How do the Asmodean Redactors get 15 hit points? Even if they were unchained Monks (and I am tempted to make them so when I eventually run this), I can only figure them to get 14 hit points. If they were 2nd level and didn't have Toughness, then I could see 15 (if you round up their HPs at 2nd level)... but that doesn't square with the other stats.
I'm just curious if I'm missing something. Mind you, giving these low-level mooks a few extra HPs will help them last slightly longer, but I was just unsure how they managed their HP level.
If they were unchained, they could get 15 thus: 15 = 10 (1st HD) + 3 (Toughness) + 1 (Con) + 1 (favored class). They took their favored class bonus as a hit point, since from the Skills part of the stat block, you can see they have 1 rank in three class skills, 1 rank in three other skills, and unchained human monks with Int 12 have 4 (monk) + 1 (Int) + 1 (human) skill points. I could tell that was how the ranks were because of the total bonus on the three non-class skills.
Edit: For proof that favored class bonus went to hit points, not skill points.
Ah, that would do it. Of course, they're not Unchained Monks, seeing that their Flurry of Blows has a lower to-hit than their non-Flurry attack... and the fact their to-hit with unarmed strike is only +2 with a Strength of 15, instead of the +3 the UM would have.
Hmm. Okay, a regular Monk would have 13 hit points then. I suppose I could just give them all potions of Bear's Endurance and have them drink it before combat...
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On a semi-related note, do Chellish Citizen's Group deaths detract from the population of Kintargo? How about the deaths of the Dottari guards or Asmodean personnel?
Or have they already been "removed" from the population of Kintargo in assumption that they would be driven out in any event if the rebellion proves successful?
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They're not unchained monks; we made the decision to not use optional rules like that for the most part in our products (with the summoner being the major exception as regards Unchained content).
The 15 hp thing appears to be a typo that crept in after development; not sure how it happened, frankly. They should have 12 hp (maximum for first level). Sorry about that!
Chelilsh Citizen Group deaths do indeed detract from Kintargo's population, as do deaths of Asmodeans or Dottari. If you DO keep track of diminising population, those deaths count.
Kintargo's final population only really matters in adventure 4, at which point there's guidelines for how to estimate the city's population decline during the previous 3 adventures if you don't keep meticulous track of deaths... which is the best bet, because otherwise you as the GM would need to decide when incidental deaths not related to the PCs or not on-screen occurred.