D&D movie announced - is this an area Paizo should target?


Movies

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Liberty's Edge

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This link talks about the official announcement of a big budget movie based on the D&D brand. Which is an interesting move in itself.

The article says that D&D is "by far and away" the biggest brand in fantasy story telling. Is that still true? 10, even 5 years ago I would have agreed but now...? Not so sure.

Are these different types of media an area Paizo could also expand? Should they?

For some reason I'm feeling like it's a little bit of a desperation move from Wizards to raise their brand identity again. I don't know why I think that, but that's what ny gut is telling me.

Interesting times!


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

What does "the biggest brand" mean?

Since this is marketing, I think "largest product portfolio" is likely to be their measure, which I doubt anyone will disagree with, considering the sheer quantity of RP books, toys, comics, books, cartoons, films, and whatever else have you the D&D brand has amassed over the years.

I'd be more concerned with the assertion that it is "the most popular" RP brand, if I were Paizo. Of course, popularity by what measure? Products sold since 1974? Yep. Tables at RP conventions in the last three years? Debatable.

Pure spin, and I trust Lisa et al to know what direction to take Pathfinder.


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I don't see how a big budget movie is showing desperation.

D&D has a more recognizable brand name to folks that don't play table top RPGs on a regular basis.

Some random thoughts:

I think before a movie, Paizo needs to build up some success in the video game market with non-table top gamers. The current MMO, I think, is geared towards fans they have already.

The card game looks great and is one step towards awesome-town.

I think if they can make a few 2D Baldur's Gate type RPGs and then an Elder's Scroll type of sandbox RPG then they will be rolling really well.

Golarion/Pathfinder, as an intellectual property, has a lot of value to a smallish market. I think they'll have to continue building that up to the markets outside of tabletop gaming.

The novels and comics are top notch.

I think in 15-20 years they could have a movie series.

This timeline could be shortened if one of their novel/comic book characters goes mainstream. I think their current model (multiple settings, lots of characters) makes this less likely to happen. I think maybe they should take a gamble at a character that gets regular comic books & novels (Drizzt anyone?).

Liberty's Edge

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I would love a 2D RPG game based in Golarion.

Yeah, like I said, maybe desperation is the wrong word. It just seems like odd timing. They took a powder on their last 'big-budget' attempt at a movie and I'm not sure how they think this time it will be different.


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Interesting. Not a lot of information there, but one quote jumped out at me "This is such an enormous opportunity to bring the rich fantasy setting of the Forgotten Realms to life".

That suggests they're actually going to use some of the world lore rather than just make a generic fantasy movie with the D&D brand.


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My only comments are: Transformers, Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen, Transformers: Dark of the Moon, Transformers: Age of Extinction, G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra, G.I. Joe: Retaliation, Dungeons & Dragons, Dungeons & Dragons: Wrath of the Dragon God.

Make of these what you will about what to expect...


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JamZilla wrote:

I would love a 2D RPG game based in Golarion.

Yeah, like I said, maybe desperation is the wrong word. It just seems like odd timing. They took a powder on their last 'big-budget' attempt at a movie and I'm not sure how they think this time it will be different.

Fantasy's even bigger than it was then? That was before even the first LotR movie, much less Game of Thrones.

And frankly, it was a really lousy movie. It all depends on whether they can make a good movie this time. If they can, it'll do well. If not ...


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As for "far and away the most well-known brand in fantasy", certainly true for RPGs, but fantasy in general? I'd bet serious money both LotR & GoT are more well-known at this time.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

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I'm concerned that the writer doesn't appear to have a strong background with D&D or RPGs. Any word on anyone from WOTC who's involved in story approval? does WOTC even have any creative approval this time around?


Randarak wrote:

My only comments are: Transformers, Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen, Transformers: Dark of the Moon, Transformers: Age of Extinction, G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra, G.I. Joe: Retaliation, Dungeons & Dragons, Dungeons & Dragons: Wrath of the Dragon God.

Make of these what you will about what to expect...

So, a stupid popcorn flick that can be enjoyable so long as you don't overthink it or take it too seriously?


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Ivan Rûski wrote:
Randarak wrote:

My only comments are: Transformers, Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen, Transformers: Dark of the Moon, Transformers: Age of Extinction, G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra, G.I. Joe: Retaliation, Dungeons & Dragons, Dungeons & Dragons: Wrath of the Dragon God.

Make of these what you will about what to expect...

So, a stupid popcorn flick that can be enjoyable so long as you don't overthink it or take it too seriously?

Precisely.


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Randarak wrote:

My only comments are: Transformers, Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen, Transformers: Dark of the Moon, Transformers: Age of Extinction, G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra, G.I. Joe: Retaliation, Dungeons & Dragons, Dungeons & Dragons: Wrath of the Dragon God.

Make of these what you will about what to expect...

Well the big difference between those is that the Transformers ones made a ton of money and the others didn't.

At least that's my impression.


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I'd be shocked if Paizo could actually afford a big movie.

They'll have to be much, much bigger before that could feasibly be attempted.

Hasbro has the resources to set money on fire in hopes of managing to generate more.

Paizo does not. =P

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

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JJ Jordan wrote:


This timeline could be shortened if one of their novel/comic book characters goes mainstream. I think their current model (multiple settings, lots of characters) makes this less likely to happen. I think maybe they should take a gamble at a character that gets regular comic books & novels (Drizzt anyone?).

I think their best written and most interesting characters are Count Varian Jeggare and Radovan from Dave Gross' novels. I'd love to see a comic, let alone a movie, based on those stories, and I think it could probably make for a great movie franchise.


Ssalarn wrote:
JJ Jordan wrote:


This timeline could be shortened if one of their novel/comic book characters goes mainstream. I think their current model (multiple settings, lots of characters) makes this less likely to happen. I think maybe they should take a gamble at a character that gets regular comic books & novels (Drizzt anyone?).
I think their best written and most interesting characters are Count Varian Jeggare and Radovan from Dave Gross' novels. I'd love to see a comic, let alone a movie, based on those stories, and I think it could probably make for a great movie franchise.

I agree that those are the best two characters thus far. Are they the right ones to try and take mainstream? I'm not sure.

I think Paizo would want at least 1 female.


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I think Paizo should work on a TV show, not a movie. Just my op'. :P


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hopefully it doesn't suck like the last 3 d&d movies

Liberty's Edge

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Oh no doubt it'll have my dream combo of Michael Bay directing Ryan Reynolds and Megan Fox >:(

Dark Archive

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Zhangar wrote:

I'd be shocked if Paizo could actually afford a big movie.

They'll have to be much, much bigger before that could feasibly be attempted.

Hasbro has the resources to set money on fire in hopes of managing to generate more.

Paizo does not. =P

No no no, that´s not how you do it! You sell the rights for the movie and add a clause that if they don't release a sequel every five years they lose the rights for the movies.

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

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JJ Jordan wrote:
Ssalarn wrote:
JJ Jordan wrote:


This timeline could be shortened if one of their novel/comic book characters goes mainstream. I think their current model (multiple settings, lots of characters) makes this less likely to happen. I think maybe they should take a gamble at a character that gets regular comic books & novels (Drizzt anyone?).
I think their best written and most interesting characters are Count Varian Jeggare and Radovan from Dave Gross' novels. I'd love to see a comic, let alone a movie, based on those stories, and I think it could probably make for a great movie franchise.

I agree that those are the best two characters thus far. Are they the right ones to try and take mainstream? I'm not sure.

I think Paizo would want at least 1 female.

The latest novel introduced an interesting female character who seems like she'll be sticking around, and almost every novel to date has had a (different) interesting and multi-faceted female character, so I think it's pretty doable.


Ssalarn wrote:
JJ Jordan wrote:
Ssalarn wrote:
JJ Jordan wrote:


This timeline could be shortened if one of their novel/comic book characters goes mainstream. I think their current model (multiple settings, lots of characters) makes this less likely to happen. I think maybe they should take a gamble at a character that gets regular comic books & novels (Drizzt anyone?).
I think their best written and most interesting characters are Count Varian Jeggare and Radovan from Dave Gross' novels. I'd love to see a comic, let alone a movie, based on those stories, and I think it could probably make for a great movie franchise.

I agree that those are the best two characters thus far. Are they the right ones to try and take mainstream? I'm not sure.

I think Paizo would want at least 1 female.

The latest novel introduced an interesting female character who seems like she'll be sticking around, and almost every novel to date has had a (different) interesting and multi-faceted female character, so I think it's pretty doable.

don't forget the female bounty hunter that count jeggare hired at the end as well


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Article says they are bringing Forgotten Realms to the screen. Maybe those rumors of the Icewind dale trillogy are real

Dark Archive

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

So I take it this means they finally got the film licence back from the previous lot?

Sovereign Court

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Kevin Mack wrote:
So I take it this means they finally got the film licence back from the previous lot?

Nope. It looks like they are working together on it.


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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

It does look like there's a settlement of some kind - a joint venture (SweetPea is listed as being involved) as a mollification measure then rights in Hasbro's hands.


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Based on the other D&D movie, I'm sure I'll stick with Zombie Morpheus/Dead Gentlemen. They've been making the best gaming movies out there for quite awhile.


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Pathfinder: The Movie, in which a group of five people sit around a table with a large stack of books, trying to find the perfect class and archetype.

How it Ends:

By the end of the movie, they still haven't succeeded.


pennywit wrote:

Pathfinder: The Movie, in which a group of five people sit around a table with a large stack of books, trying to find the perfect class and archetype.

** spoiler omitted **

i usually work with my dm on that before game day

Sczarni RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

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I would like a goblins cartoon of the likes that would be shown on Adult Swim. 12 minutes of pure insanity followed by Robot Chicken would do nicely.


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JoelF847 wrote:
I'm concerned that the writer doesn't appear to have a strong background with D&D or RPGs. Any word on anyone from WOTC who's involved in story approval? does WOTC even have any creative approval this time around?

That is actually a good thing. The writer only needs to know the setting and tell a good story using it.

Sczarni

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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens Subscriber
Kevin Mack wrote:
So I take it this means they finally got the film licence back from the previous lot?

nope, they settled This link has more information. Hasbro's deal was with Universal, so it appears that Sweatpea got the house and the car in the settlement.


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The guy who wrote Wrath of the Titans is writing it...so I don't have much faith in this being good. So with the history behind this...I am keeping my expectations low.


the David wrote:
No no no, that´s not how you do it! You sell the rights for the movie and add a clause that if they don't release a sequel every five years they lose the rights for the movies.

Hell No!

Selling the rights without retaining creative control is bad. You might have noticed the name Courtney Solomon in there. He's the reason that D&D movies have sucked. He bought the rights way back and has been involved in everything since that. Even with a reversion clause, you're risking making your brand look like crap.

I only hope that since he's only one of many producers he has a job that keeps him out of creative control.

I'm glad that it's in the Forgotten Realms instead of Greyhawk. It implied it will only be sort of generic instead of absolutely generic. Now if they'd have said Eberron or Dark Sun or Planescape, I'd have been really excited.


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One of the biggest hurdles in making these films a success (IMHO) is the story line. As mentioned above the novels would be a good place to start. And with several 'series' in the tales you could potentially get movie sequals. One will have the traditional problem of what parts of the novels make it into the film of course.

The APs also have a good story already. Someone has made a play out of Burnt Offerings so the APs could be another way to go. HBO is nearly done with Game of Thrones, and I think the longer screen time might actually work better for one of the APs.

Goblins cartoon would be cool. With the exceptions of the violence, arson, & distrust of the written word. Oh wait, on Adult Swim? Yeah that would work :)


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Philo Pharynx wrote:
the David wrote:
No no no, that´s not how you do it! You sell the rights for the movie and add a clause that if they don't release a sequel every five years they lose the rights for the movies.

Hell No!

Selling the rights without retaining creative control is bad. You might have noticed the name Courtney Solomon in there. He's the reason that D&D movies have sucked. He bought the rights way back and has been involved in everything since that. Even with a reversion clause, you're risking making your brand look like crap.

I only hope that since he's only one of many producers he has a job that keeps him out of creative control.

I'm glad that it's in the Forgotten Realms instead of Greyhawk. It implied it will only be sort of generic instead of absolutely generic. Now if they'd have said Eberron or Dark Sun or Planescape, I'd have been really excited.

I believe that was sarcasm directed at the Sony and Fox Marvel movie franchises.


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John Kretzer wrote:

The guy who wrote Wrath of the Titans is writing it...so I don't have much faith in this being good. So with the history behind this...I am keeping my expectations low.

He also wrote a few episodes for The Walking Dead and the surprisingly good Mob City.

Sovereign Court

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Philo Pharynx wrote:
the David wrote:
No no no, that´s not how you do it! You sell the rights for the movie and add a clause that if they don't release a sequel every five years they lose the rights for the movies.

Hell No!

Selling the rights without retaining creative control is bad. You might have noticed the name Courtney Solomon in there. He's the reason that D&D movies have sucked. He bought the rights way back and has been involved in everything since that. Even with a reversion clause, you're risking making your brand look like crap.

I only hope that since he's only one of many producers he has a job that keeps him out of creative control.

Think you missed the joke.

Philo Pharynx wrote:
I'm glad that it's in the Forgotten Realms instead of Greyhawk. It implied it will only be sort of generic instead of absolutely generic. Now if they'd have said Eberron or Dark Sun or Planescape, I'd have been really excited.

WOTC is all about branding now. That means Forgettable Realms will be the setting for everything.


Fabius Maximus wrote:
John Kretzer wrote:

The guy who wrote Wrath of the Titans is writing it...so I don't have much faith in this being good. So with the history behind this...I am keeping my expectations low.

He also wrote a few episodes for The Walking Dead and the surprisingly good Mob City.

and who knows he might have gotten better since wrath of the titans


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Pan wrote:
Think you missed the joke.

Yeah, I get a little rage-blind whenever I see Mr. Solomon.

Pan wrote:
WOTC is all about branding now. That means Forgettable Realms will be the setting for everything.

Well, until they feel the need for another marketing shake-up. I think that having a less generic fantasy world would help a movie. One of the problems of previous D&D movies is that they've been generic fantasy movies with a few names and monsters thrown in.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

LET THEIR BLOOD R-

You know what, I would be excited for a movie series set in the Forgotten Realms that has the budget, and gravity of superhero movies and Lord of the Rings. I'm gonna remain cautiously optimistic.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Blackvial wrote:
Fabius Maximus wrote:
John Kretzer wrote:

The guy who wrote Wrath of the Titans is writing it...so I don't have much faith in this being good. So with the history behind this...I am keeping my expectations low.

He also wrote a few episodes for The Walking Dead and the surprisingly good Mob City.
and who knows he might have gotten better since wrath of the titans

Or maybe he wrote an excellent script and it got butchered by the director and whoever else got their hands on it after he handed the work in.

Unless you have someone who is an auteur to guide a movie from inception to execution youre not going to get a one persons pure straightforward vision / version of a movie.

Someone with Christopher Nolans clout maybe. But the guys who are going to be making these movies aren't Christopher Nolans. After they hand in the script, not matter how much the producers / directors / stars like it? Theyre gonna change it to suit their whims. Some of those changes will make the script better but mostly they just make it worse.

True Story: I was interning at a production company in NY back in 1994 when the word was Shane Black had sold a script for what was then an unheard of FOUR MILLION DOLLARS. People had begun faxing the script around (I'm sure if it was before or after the script had sold) and the other interns and I made copies of the incoming script (which I still have sans about 3 -4 pages that got lost).

I read that script on the way home on the F train and the while walking down 108th Street in Forest Hills, in the elevator of my building and finally in my apartment when I got home. When I was done I was like JESUS CHRIST. Theyre NEVER going to be able to make this movie as is. It's too violent and too crazy. But if they did? It would be one of the best action movies EVER. That script? THE LONG KISS GOODNIGHT.

And sure enough it sold to either New Line or Warner. I think that at that point New Line hadnt been taken over by Warner Bros yet (I could be wrong).

My point is this, the movie that was eventually made was still good, but only had a passing resemblance to the script that I read. There are big parts of set pieces that were excised, characters eliminated, character arcs changed. They could have shot it as was and really the only thing that they would have had to worry about was possibly a NC-17 for violence. A couple of nips and tucks would have gotten that back down to a hard R.

Again, my point is this: THAT script sold for $4 MILLION DOLLARS and they still changed it in my opinion making it a lesser movie.

I'm pretty sure that they're not going to spend that kind of money on the D&D movie script. Nor did they for Wrath of the Titans.

Sovereign Court

Whatever they end up doing id love to see an awesome beholder fight.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
JamZilla wrote:

This link talks about the official announcement of a big budget movie based on the D&D brand. Which is an interesting move in itself.

The article says that D&D is "by far and away" the biggest brand in fantasy story telling. Is that still true? 10, even 5 years ago I would have agreed but now...? Not so sure.

Are these different types of media an area Paizo could also expand? Should they?

For some reason I'm feeling like it's a little bit of a desperation move from Wizards to raise their brand identity again. I don't know why I think that, but that's what ny gut is telling me.

Interesting times!

Not Wizards. there isn't any such thing as a company called Wizards of the Coast any more, it's just a subsidiary brand name put up by Hasbro.

When you think in terms of this project being done by Hasbro, then you can see it in it's larger context... just another movie based on a Hasbro toyline which will probably met the fate of most, if not all movies based on Hasbro toys.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

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Fabius Maximus wrote:
JoelF847 wrote:
I'm concerned that the writer doesn't appear to have a strong background with D&D or RPGs. Any word on anyone from WOTC who's involved in story approval? does WOTC even have any creative approval this time around?

That is actually a good thing. The writer only needs to know the setting and tell a good story using it.

I disagree here. Without someone who knows the property inside and out being involved (not necessarily being the writer), you get results that don't might be good or not, but rarely feel relevant to the setting. As an example, Kevin Fiege is one of the cornerstones of the Marvel movies being cohesive to the tone and history of the Marvel universe. As a counter example, DC doesn't really have anyone like that, and the results are their movies are very hit or miss.


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ShinHakkaider wrote:
Blackvial wrote:
Fabius Maximus wrote:
John Kretzer wrote:

The guy who wrote Wrath of the Titans is writing it...so I don't have much faith in this being good. So with the history behind this...I am keeping my expectations low.

He also wrote a few episodes for The Walking Dead and the surprisingly good Mob City.
and who knows he might have gotten better since wrath of the titans

Or maybe he wrote an excellent script and it got butchered by the director and whoever else got their hands on it after he handed the work in.

Unless you have someone who is an auteur to guide a movie from inception to execution youre not going to get a one persons pure straightforward vision / version of a movie.

Someone with Christopher Nolans clout maybe. But the guys who are going to be making these movies aren't Christopher Nolans. After they hand in the script, not matter how much the producers / directors / stars like it? Theyre gonna change it to suit their whims. Some of those changes will make the script better but mostly they just make it worse.

True Story: I was interning at a production company in NY back in 1994 when the word was Shane Black had sold a script for what was then an unheard of FOUR MILLION DOLLARS. People had begun faxing the script around (I'm sure if it was before or after the script had sold) and the other interns and I made copies of the incoming script (which I still have sans about 3 -4 pages that got lost).

I read that script on the way home on the F train and the while walking down 108th Street in Forest Hills, in the elevator of my building and finally in my apartment when I got home. When I was done I was like JESUS CHRIST. Theyre NEVER going to be able to make this movie as is. It's too violent and too crazy. But if they did? It would be one of the best action movies EVER. That script? THE LONG KISS GOODNIGHT.

And sure enough it sold to either New Line or Warner. I think that at that point New Line hadnt been taken over by...

All of which might be true...or what he handed in would have made the movie worse...we really don't know.

That is why I am keeping my expectations low so if it is good I am pleasantry surprise.


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LazarX wrote:

Not Wizards. there isn't any such thing as a company called Wizards of the Coast any more, it's just a subsidiary brand name put up by Hasbro.

When you think in terms of this project being done by Hasbro, then you can see it in it's larger context... just another movie based on a Hasbro toyline which will probably met the fate of most, if not all movies based on Hasbro toys.

Clearly, Battleship was the best movie of 2012.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Well, I demand the return of Profion, Damodar and Snails!

Hell, how do I write out Profions most excellent emoting? I'll just show you. :)


I liked the last two D&D movies, but if they're not doing Drizzt, then they just need to not bother. There are so many iconic characters from classic D&D that it's ridiculous that they don't license any for a proper film.


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
JamZilla wrote:

This link talks about the official announcement of a big budget movie based on the D&D brand. Which is an interesting move in itself.

The article says that D&D is "by far and away" the biggest brand in fantasy story telling. Is that still true? 10, even 5 years ago I would have agreed but now...? Not so sure.

I think it's the biggest Roleplaying Game Brand. Without any kind of research, I'd put Game of Thrones ahead of it in terms of "fantasy story telling" (whatever that is). I'd only exclude Lord of the Rings as it's no longer current.

Quote:
Are these different types of media an area Paizo could also expand? Should they?

Yes and not yet would be my (again pretty clueless) answers. You're not going to make money out of a movie selling it to gamers and nobody who isn't a gamer (or close to one) has heard of Pathfinder or Paizo.

Quote:
For some reason I'm feeling like it's a little bit of a desperation move from Wizards to raise their brand identity again. I don't know why I think that, but that's what ny gut is telling me.

This seems very much in keeping with their 5E strategy - they've deliberately kept their product releases low (like two or three books a year low) and have instead been pushing licensing of side-products and cross-promotion (I wouldn't mind betting that the AP which releases around the time of this movie will be thematically very close and in the same general area). It seems pretty clear to me that they've given up on the RPG market as a source of income and are instead hoping to make the money they want out of movies and computer games.

I don't know the economics of the blockbuster movie industry (if that's where this is going to be pitched, as opposed to the B-Grade, low budget earlier attempts). Hopefully they make enough money with the first one to keep dipping their toe in the water - I think the whole RPG industry can only benefit from that.


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Kobold Cleaver wrote:
I think Paizo should work on a TV show, not a movie. Just my op'. :P

Replace (or supplement in parallel) TV (which is becoming obsolete) with internet-streamed, and this actually sounds liek a good idea. After all, it's apparently working out quite well for Game of Thrones, so why not for Golarion?

AP adaptation is not a bad idea, although unless you have something super-awesome you should at first probably do something other than Curse of the Crimson Throne, Council of Thieves, or Kingmaker (even though these would be awesome), to avoid competing too head-to-head with Game of Thrones. Admittedly, if we're talking about a play, Council of Thieves has The Six Trials of Larazod embedded in it (although for some reason I've got an operatic rather than play vision of this stuck in my head).

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