Timing of "When Playing" Effects

Rules Questions and Gameplay Discussion

Radillio has the ability "When you play a spell that has the Arcane trait during an encounter, you may examine the bottom card of your deck."

I have leveled her up to the point where I may put that card in my hand if it is an ally. If said ally is an Acolyte or some other combat check modifying ally, can I use it for the spell which allowed me to out it in my hand?

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Hmmm... Given some other discussion going on, that is a very good question. The only real question is, do you use the power the moment you play the card, or wait until after the check? I think I'd say you do it the moment you play the card. It is different from RotR Ezren's power, which said "After you play a spell.." And if you do it the moment you play the card, then it is in your hand for you to use on the check.

... wow, and I thought Radillo's card shuffle trick was insane before. O.O

Adventure Card Game Designer

Seems legit.

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Never doubt Radillo is best caster. <3

Dave Riley wrote:
Never doubt Radillo is best caster. <3

Yeah, I was feeling kind of annoyed that her abilities revolving around Mental stuff was weak, but heck, she doesn't *need* any other abilities.

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Turns out the first thing I said when I wrote a love letter to her last year was "who cares about that Mental buff?!" So I guess it's common wisdom among Radicchio players. :D

One of my all-time favorite characters, maybe even edging out Damiel--don't get me wrong, Damiel's awesome, but every card with him might as well boil down to "Play this to be amazing;" Radillo's more of a thinker's character, requires a lot more mental contortion, but is so, so satisfying when you get your deck humming in just the right way (and she's much better dressed!)

Makes me sad that she's from some random codex somewhere and probably won't be showing up in newer, more ridiculously OP forms in later APs down the line. D: Enough Valeros already, more Radillo! More taking cards from the bottom of your deck into your hand! THE PEOPLE DEMAND CRAVATS; EVEN MORE AND EVEN MORE AMAZING CRAVATS!

Sovereign Court

Dave Riley wrote:
Never doubt Radillo is best caster. <3

Why shouldn't you doubt something that is clearly untrue ;)

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Hmm... Having looked at this more due to this thread, I'm now wondering if Radillio shouldn't be using her power after the check is over. The FAQ for Ezren added the rule that you deal with any effects triggered by the check after the check, which is still in the rulebook as of WotR. So, perhaps the after/when distinction isn't as important as I originally thought.

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Having read through the "Does Radillo Break the Game thread" i still have a few questions

What is the latest info on how to handle the timing of Radillo's errata'ed power feat?

Radillo wrote:

When you play a spell that has the Arcane trait during an encounter, you may examine

the bottom card of your deck; if it is a spell (□ or an ally), you may put it on top of your
deck (□ or add it to your hand).

1. Precisely, when does examining the bottom card of your deck and putting it on top of your deck/drawing it? Do we do this before attempting the check, after attempting the check but before recharging, or after attempting the recharge?

2. What prevents this from being abused once taking the feat to add it to her hand? Even if the power proc's before recharging, could she not just use two spells to repeatedly cycle a location Deck? For example, Using Augury And Detect Magic alternating between the two?

And an extension of this,

MM pg 8 playing cards wrote:
If a power says it may be used when something happens, you may use it every time that happens. Otherwise, a specific card’s power may only be used once per check or step.

3. Does this rule prevent Radillo from running an infinite loop of spells? Or since the card has no memory, is she able to alternate between casting Augury and Detect Magic multiple times on her turn?

Appreciate the help, I'm mostly just trying to understand how the FAQ fixed this.

I believe it goes "Neither Augury nor Detect Magic relate to any step of an encounter, and thus they cannot be played during one." (MM Rulebook p. 9: "Characters may only play cards or use powers that relate to each step...".)

So you can probably still cause loops, but not quite as easily.

For #3, Radillo's power is a "when something happens" power (it starts with "When".)

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Yeah, Radillo's power only activates during an encounter. So you can't use it when playing Augury. But, having played her, I can say, you can get some amazing loops. The key is Sphere of Fire.

Even when displayed, every time you use it you are playing it. And it is always during an encounter. So, Augury, recharge, then encounter a monster, play Sphere of Fire, get Augury back in your hand. Play Augury, explore, encounter a monster, play your already displayed Sphere of Fire, repeat. When you finally recharge Sphere of Fire, just have another spell to play during an encounter to get it back. Spells you can play during someone else's encounter help with that.

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Excellent, thank you both. I somehow missed the "during an encounter" part. Just goes to show you how absent minded I've been today.

Thanks again

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

I'll just add that when I played her in Season the Righteous, I ended up often drawing from the bottom of my deck more than I drew from the top of my deck.

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