Rogue Talent - Offensive Defense


Rules Questions


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Dear Pathfinder dev team:

Quote:

Rogue: Does the dodge bonus from the “offensive defensive” rogue talent (page 131) stack with itself? Does it apply to everyone, or just to the target I’m attacking?

There are two issues relating to this rogue talent.

One, in the first printing it provided a +1 circumstance bonus against the attacked target, which was a very weak ability. The second printing update changed it from a circumstance bonus to a dodge bonus, but accidentally omitted the “against that creature” text, which made it a very strong ability.

Two, it doesn’t specify whether the dodge bonus stacks with itself, and because this creates a strange place in the rules where bonuses don’t stack from the same source but dodge bonuses always stack. While we haven’t reached a final decision on what to do about this talent, we are leaning toward this solution: the dodge bonus only applies against the creature you sneak attacked, and the dodge bonus does not stack with itself. This prevents you from getting a dodge bonus to AC against a strong creature by sneak attacking a weak creature, and prevents you from reaching an absurdly high AC by sneak attacking multiple times in the same round.

Posted March 2012.

When trying to look this up - I found some old threads and then searched the Help/FAQ listed. Can we please get this officially answered? 3 years is a long time to wait for a fix. The ability as written does indeed create a weird place in the rules. :)


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

How about this FAQ Entry


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Pawns Subscriber

I would love an answer to this question also because I have a rogue using two weapon fighting in my Mummy's Mask campaign. He is level 6 right now and has 3d6 sneak attack; so if he hits with both weapons he gets +6 AC until the next round. As he levels up this AC bonus will continue to stack and make him invincible if he hits with his sneak attack dice.


DM Sothal wrote:
How about this FAQ Entry

That's the text I posted - word for word. Here is the problem:

because this creates a strange place in the rules where bonuses don’t stack from the same source but dodge bonuses always stack. While we haven’t reached a final decision on what to do about this talent,


the proposed solution right after that text works for me and my group.


DM Sothal wrote:
the proposed solution right after that text works for me and my group.

I agree - which is why I posted - 3 years later and they haven't 'made up their mind' and the PRD is still listing the rule in a broken condition.

I don't think it's too much to ask them to make the solution official and update the PRD.


Ah, well, then I misunderstood the intention of this thread.


I would also like a definitive answer. On a side note, am I blind, or did they take this rogue trick out all together for the unchained rogue? I didn't see it in her rogue trick list, or in the list of rogue trick that went unchanged.


Unchained rogue has debilitating injury. With that option already in play to saddle an enemy with a -4 (or more) to attacks, a talent that can raise AC against the same opponent was probably considered too drastic.


Lowering an opponent's "to hit" is effectively raising your AC.

Sovereign Court

Considering Rogue has basically been replaced by Unchained Rogue - I'm guessing that they never bother answering.


Ninjas are still played regularly, and they still get access to Offensive Defense.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Just wanted to point out a quick google search shows multiple threads on this. If you think they should adopt their 'what we are thinking' errata and make it official please support this with a FAQ click.

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