Some questions about dying / Raise Dead during an encounter


Rules Questions and Gameplay Discussion


Just theorizing here... (apologies in advance if this opens a can of worms!)

When a character dies during an encounter, does that end the encounter? Say you died because of a monster's "before you act" power, could someone cast Raise Dead immediately so you could revive and attempt to defeat the monster?

My guess is no, since you're not really playing a card that affects the encounter. But then is the monster undefeated? Or just "not defeated", (i.e. evaded)?

For that matter, if you die before you end your turn, do you immediately end your turn? From the rulebook: "Bury your deck, hand, and discard pile. You cannot take turns, play cards, move, or do anything else for the rest of this scenario." (emphasis mine) So does that mean your turn is over? Or, using math terms, your turn immediately becomes { }

And Raise Dead says, "Discard this card and choose a dead character. His player shuffles 10 of his buried cards at random into his character deck and draws a new hand. The character is no longer dead." It doesn't specify when you can play it, so (again, just theorizing), say I die before the end of my turn, and someone casts Raise Dead on me. Could I then play a card or continue exploring?

Just wondering whether any of you have come across a situation like this, and how you played it?


No group I've played with has ever hit this (I've only seen 2 characters die). When a character dies, usually the death occurs at the end of the character's turn, so usually these issues wouldn't arise.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Personally, I'd say that you can't play it during an encounter. And that the card you are encountering when you die is undefeated/not acquired.

If you die during your turn, the rest of the steps of your turn still happen, you just can't do anything on them. So someone can play it on your turn. After that turn, you don't take anymore turns while you are dead.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Card Game, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Hawkmoon269 wrote:

Personally, I'd say that you can't play it during an encounter. And that the card you are encountering when you die is undefeated/not acquired.

If you die during your turn, the rest of the steps of your turn still happen, you just can't do anything on them. So someone can play it on your turn. After that turn, you don't take anymore turns while you are dead.

Agreed. If it occurs during an encounter ... let's say you had to discard everything from damage and you were directed by an After You Act to draw from your deck but were without cards, you die; or simply that losing to a bane, you die. The rest of your turn still occurs but you need to follow the steps about burying your cards, etc. At that point after the encounter and after you bury your cards, then someone can cast Raise Dead. It does not say your turn ends, though.

At that point, you are no longer technically dead. And since Raise Dead draws up a new hand, you could continue exploring. Although when it happened to a party I was in, the person didn't really want to chance anything. They weren't in an "exploring" mood.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Theryon Stormrune wrote:


At that point, you are no longer technically dead. And since Raise Dead draws up a new hand, you could continue exploring. Although when it happened to a party I was in, the person didn't really want to chance anything. They weren't in an "exploring" mood.

And I suppose you couldn't tease him with YOLO ;)


Okay, that all makes sense. I think dying during an encounter is quite rare anyway (see: that horrible Carrion Golem) but as long as there's no rule against it, I think it's doable. Thanks guys!


iMonkey wrote:
I think dying during an encounter is quite rare anyway

;)


The_Napier wrote:
iMonkey wrote:
I think dying during an encounter is quite rare anyway
;)

Oh no, did I just jinx myself? 0_0

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Added to FAQ.


Vic Wertz wrote:
Added to FAQ.

If a living character is encountering a card with multiple checks can we

Raise Dead during the encounter to handle one of the checks? This is probably similar to moving someone to the location with a Potion of Flying, so more generally if we can only play cards that directly affect checks, does playing a card to allow a character to make a check count?


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Card Game, Lost Omens, Maps, PF Special Edition, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I don't see Raise Dead as pertaining to the check itself, so I'd say no. If you go that route I'd also be allowed to play Cure on someone else so they can handle a check that requires them to discard cards or something -- the card has no relation to the check itself even if it is used to let someone better handle the check.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

I fully agree, see the VERY long discussions about what is relevant to a check and thus allowed to be played during that check step.

This said, I think that would be a very clever idea from Mike or Vick to add one day an example list in the FAQ of what can be played or not during the check by the character attempting the check and by another characters:

- Guy attempting can play : this, and this, and that...
- Guy attempting cannot play : this, and this, and that...
- Other guy can play : this, and this, and that...
- Other guy cannot play : this, and this, and that...

And make sure that the cards/powers that has been widely debated (Glibness, Cure, Raise, Rage, powers that let you draw cards...) are present in those lines.

Else we gonna have to wait for Hawk to build it :-)


The distinction for Raise Dead and Potion of Flying is that step 0 of attempting a check is to choose a character to perform the check (if there aren't sequential checks, you only have one choice). Can you play cards to affect that step if you will choose the newly available character? It would be similar to Rage, which can be played as long as the power is used. Reference. It is unclear if the check has even started before you pick a character to attempt it, however.

The other discussions were about playing cards to get cards you can play, but it seems that only things that directly let you affect a check will be allowed (as everyone has been playing) and there will be some errata on a couple cards to make them work.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Card Game, Lost Omens, Maps, PF Special Edition, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

During an encounter, we cannot play cards or use powers in-between steps, and any cards or powers played during a step must relate to that step or relate to cards played or powers used in that step (page 10 of rulebook). This single level of indirection is what allows us to do things like use WotR Kyra's power to heal 1 card during a check -- normally healing 1 doesn't relate to any step of an encounter, but it does relate to using Kyra's earlier power to fight something or when you play a blessing that does relate to a check.

Now then, let's walk through all of the steps of an encounter (and a check) in order to see if any of them would let Raise Dead be played during them (in other words, where playing Raise Dead relates to the step).

1. Apply Any Effects That Happen When You Encounter a Card: Raise Dead doesn't say we can play it when we encounter something, so that's a no here.

2. Apply Any Evasion Effects: Raise Dead doesn't allow us to evade encounters, so can't play it here either.

3. Apply Any Effects That Happen Before You Act: Raise Dead doesn't say we can use it before we act, so another no.

4. Attempt the Check:
4a. Determine Which Skill You're Using: Raise Dead does not determine any skills used for a check, so cannot be played here.

4b. Determine the Difficulty: From what I can tell, you aren't allowed to play any cards or use any powers here, all of that happens in 4c (including I believe cards like Good Omen that impact the check difficulty).

4c. Play Cards and Use Powers That Affect Your Check (Optional): Playing Raise Dead does not normally affect the check itself, and as such cannot be played here. I can think of powers where Raise Dead would indeed affect the check in which case I'd say it can be played (for example, a power on the card that raised the difficulty of the check to defeat by the number of dead characters). However, I don't believe any such power currently exists.

But wait, you may say. What if the dead person has a card that affects the check, and raising them would maybe let them play it? To this I still say no, because Raise Dead does not affect the check, and it does not relate to any cards already played that affect the check. From the very beginning, note that we can only play a card if it relates to the step or relates to cards or powers used on the step. The past-tense is important there, it doesn't say "relate to cards or powers that can be used on the step but haven't been used yet".

4d. Assemble Your Dice:

4e. Attempt the Roll: Cards/powers that let you do things like reroll would be played here, however Raise Dead does not do that and as such cannot be played here.

4f. Take Damage, If Necessary. Raise Dead does not impact or reduce the damage you'd be taking and as such cannot be played here.

5. Attempt the Next Check, If Needed: Second verse, same as the first. Still no Raise Dead.

6. Apply Any Effects That Happen After You Act: Raise Dead doesn't say we can play it after we act, so nope.

7: Resolve the Encounter: Raise Dead doesn't relate to any of the text here. After the encounter is resolved you'd be able to play Raise Dead though barring any other circumstances (like powers that let you immediately explore again or otherwise don't give you any in-between time).


The rules fail to include a numbered step in which you select the player to make a check, but explicitly mention that you have this choice when there are sequential checks to be made. Is this actually a step on its own or part of a different step? Is it part of the encounter or part of the check? Can cards affect it? This isn't yet covered by the rules or FAQ. If Raise Dead or Potion of Flying explicitly mentioned a time period then that could make them definitely work, but the standard set with Rage and Sphere of Fire is much looser -- you can play a card to give you an option that affects a check if the active player will immediately use that option.

Prior to Tuesday, we didn't even know what happens if the character encountering a card dies mid-encounter; due to a change in the rules we know that that ends the encounter (apparently avoiding subsequent effects on the card). That answered whether or not the encountering player can be raised from the dead without improving our understanding of how selecting a character to make a check works.

This would also affect checks to temp-close locations.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Card Game, Lost Omens, Maps, PF Special Edition, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Since it isn't explicitly listed as a step, I would assume that means it is a decision that needs to be made in between steps, and we already have a rule that says we are not allowed to play cards or use powers in between steps.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Hmm... So it dying ends your turn immediately. The "your turn" part is important since you can die during someone else's turn. You can even die during someone else's encounter and still succeed at that encounter. Imagine a 2 check monster that said "After you attempt a check to defeat, draw a card." If you attempted one of the checks, but weren't the character encountering it, you could succeed at your check, die when you couldn't draw a card, and the encountering character would continue as normal, just you'd be dead now. And of course, in that situation anyone could play Raise Dead once the encounter was over.

I'd assume the FAQ also means that "end of the turn" effects still happen, though the dead character can't do anything for those effects. For example:

1. A scenario that says "At the end of the turn, if location X is not occupied, discard 1 blessing from the blessings deck." That would still happen.
2. A spell played by another character (who isn't dead) that needs an attempt to be recharged at the end of the turn would still be able to attempt the recharge check.
3. If another character had a power or card that could be used at the end of the turn.

But what if a scenario said "After your move step, if location X is not occupied, discard 1 blessing from the blessings deck." Now, imagine I played Detect Evil before my move step and died from the encounter (which somehow made me draw a card I didn't have). Also, imagine that location X is not occupied. Do I not have to discard a blessing?

That is what I was trying to get at with saying you continue with your turn. What happens to required effects that relate to steps of your turn if you immediately end your turn?


Vic Wertz wrote:
Added to FAQ.

Thanks Vic, that makes sense!

Hawkmoon: I would think that the steps that are necessary still exist, but only for those necessary steps. E.g., if someone plays Aid on my check but I die from failing the check anyway, that character can still attempt to recharge Aid. It wouldn't make sense otherwise. (And interestingly could play a Blessing of Desna, for example, on the check to recharge.) Also, instructions that pertained to the end of a turn would still happen: you would still banish Potion of Heroism, you would still attempt to recharge Incendiary Cloud, etc.

I think the point of the FAQ is that no one is allowed to play other cards once the character dies - as if the "end your turn" step is the immediate next step to happen once the encounter is resolved. Resolving meaning recharging Aid, and watching as the villain as it laughs mencaingly back into the location deck.

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