The ACG Graveyard


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The Exchange

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I can agree with that, I looked at the Occult playtest and was just unable to compartmentalize all these new terms, each of the classes seemed incredibly wordy. I just accepted that if anyone came with a play-test occult to my table I'd just trust they spent the time to understand their character and I'd just blindly accept what they said.

Now that Occult adventures is out, I bought it to try and give it a second shot at understanding it to still no avail. This game has gotten to the point where my only option is to trust the player and trust that they understand their character and options because I can't be familiar with every class anymore.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Starfinder Superscriber

Yeah, trust the player is about all you can do.

The thing is, all the time, I see players getting stuff wrong about the rules in places where I do actually know the rules. It's implausible to me that they're getting it right in the places where I don't really know the rules. And, part of the duty of the GM is as rules adjudicator. (Some previous games used the term "referee", and that term shows up a lot in Gygax's writing in AD&D/1e.) I no longer feel completely competent to perform that role....

The solution is just not to worry about it too much, and accept that the players know what they're doing, even when they seem to be overpowered and ROFLstomping things in ways that just strike you as wrong.

(Or to go play FATE or something entirely different.)


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bigrig107 wrote:

It makes peri-blooded aasimars even more powerful, as they are the only race I know of that gets +2 Int and +2 Cha.

Also, no negatives.

Fortunately, they all mysteriously keeled over and died of old age recently.

Paizo Employee Publisher, Chief Creative Officer

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Muser wrote:
Wouldn't this thinly disguised rant thread be better in PF General Discussion?

I think it's ok. Rules (especially badly edited, broken ones) sometimes change, and necessitate a change to a character. It's an unfortunate event, and I can understand the desire to leave a memento mori.

Sovereign Court

Codanous wrote:

I can agree with that, I looked at the Occult playtest and was just unable to compartmentalize all these new terms, each of the classes seemed incredibly wordy. I just accepted that if anyone came with a play-test occult to my table I'd just trust they spent the time to understand their character and I'd just blindly accept what they said.

Now that Occult adventures is out, I bought it to try and give it a second shot at understanding it to still no avail. This game has gotten to the point where my only option is to trust the player and trust that they understand their character and options because I can't be familiar with every class anymore.

Amen. I took one look at the play test and said, "NOPE!" Of course, I've never seen anyone actually play one of those classes, so that's saying something, too.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Erik Mona wrote:
Muser wrote:
Wouldn't this thinly disguised rant thread be better in PF General Discussion?

I think it's ok. Rules (especially badly edited, broken ones) sometimes change, and necessitate a change to a character. It's an unfortunate event, and I can understand the desire to leave a memento mori.

I admit it, that was a knee jerk response. It's just that PF General has become a kind of rant central about rules. A lot of negativity that PFS could do without. Nothing wrong with leaving an epitaph though.


RoshVagari wrote:
I've never seen anyone actually play one of those classes, so that's saying something, too.

Whereas I've seen people in my area try the Kineticist and Medium and I personally am in the process of writing up an Occultist, which says a lot more.

Here's a single paragraph explaining the Occultist class in simple terms:

Occultist: I have a pool of points. I pick 2+ (depending on level) schools of magic. I can allocate those points to the schools I pick, as I like, for benefits I'll explain in a moment. Each school I pick gives me a spell known per spell level of that school that I can then cast spontaneously. Each school also gives me a power that is available while I have a point allocated to that school. I also get to pick school appropriate powers as I level that consume those points that I allocated to those schools. Expending those points does nothing to the school's base power or my ability to cast spells. I can pick a school more than once to get more spells known of that school.

Scarab Sages

rknop wrote:

Yeah, trust the player is about all you can do.

The thing is, all the time, I see players getting stuff wrong about the rules in places where I do actually know the rules. It's implausible to me that they're getting it right in the places where I don't really know the rules. And, part of the duty of the GM is as rules adjudicator. (Some previous games used the term "referee", and that term shows up a lot in Gygax's writing in AD&D/1e.) I no longer feel completely competent to perform that role....

The solution is just not to worry about it too much, and accept that the players know what they're doing, even when they seem to be overpowered and ROFLstomping things in ways that just strike you as wrong.

(Or to go play FATE or something entirely different.)

That expanse of optiosn is why Core is popular even among some experienced players/GM (if only we could have Core with Ultimate Equipment - just kidding, sort of)

Sovereign Court

Codanous wrote:

I can agree with that, I looked at the Occult playtest and was just unable to compartmentalize all these new terms, each of the classes seemed incredibly wordy. I just accepted that if anyone came with a play-test occult to my table I'd just trust they spent the time to understand their character and I'd just blindly accept what they said.

Now that Occult adventures is out, I bought it to try and give it a second shot at understanding it to still no avail. This game has gotten to the point where my only option is to trust the player and trust that they understand their character and options because I can't be familiar with every class anymore.

Yep. Completely in the same boat with you. This is what happens when you dump SIXTEEN (lol sixteen) new base classes into the game in a 12 month period. It's become a "gotta take your word for it" experience.

Core didn't really take off locally when it was announced, but with Occult hitting live now there's some of us who are going to make a push for it.

3/5 5/5

I've seen a player play an occultist, and it was pretty damn awesome, he got to be the heavy striker and the guy who knew everything about every single cool item we picked up. Kind of Indiana Jones with a big f*&@ing axe.

Shadow Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

As far as I'm concerned, the more well-designed and well-written classes, archetypes, and options they come out with, the better. No exceptions.

Paizo is doing a really great job churning out new material, and aside from some of the nerfs (I still support most of the nerfs), they're really doing an amazing job.

Silver Crusade 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Pennsylvania—Pittsburgh aka Terminalmancer

I really like the work they've done to add new options. I just wish they didn't nerf them so hard or so unexpectedly, is all!

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