I started KM with some friends and my wife. We got as far as finishing The Stolen Lands, and then I moved to another state, killing the game. Now we have some new friends to run though KM, hopefully all the way this time, but I need to change up The Stolen Lands so that my wife isn't just playing the whole same adventure a second time.
Most of the details are pretty easy to swap out for other things, but I need to do something new with the bandits and they're a pretty huge part of the module.
Thinking about them, there are a couple odd things. The whole area is practically unpopulated. Supposedly a whole gang of bandits is making a living robbing.... trees? The nearest big target for them is Oleg's, but it's really far to the north for a regular job. I'm thinking it would make sense to replace them with something similar that doesn't actually rely on having a lot of people around like bandits do.
Enter the Tengu. They set up a roost at the fort just like the Stag Lord and, like the bandits, they found Olegs and are regularly robbing him. Unlike the bandits, they aren't really terribly reliant on thievery - it's just a handy way to get shiny things. They are populating the area, and so can be run into practically anywhere, like the bandits, but they don't have to have a terribly strong reason to be there.
They are human-like enough to be parleyed with like bandits, but inhuman enough that the idea of going and clearing out an infestation of them isn't necessarily going to look like an evil act as long as the Tengu are attacking and robbing humans from time to time.
And their stats are similar enough to the bandits that it's nearly a one-to-one replacement.
Has anybody done anything like this? How did it go?
Any comments or suggestions on things I may not have considered?
m
Sounds like a good idea so far.
Sounds cool. If you're planning on running Dudemeister's proactive Hargulka's Monster Kingdom in RRR, you could potentially tie the Tengu in to that... the PCs confront the Raven King (or whatever your Tengu Stag-Lord-analogue is called) in the fort, and as he goes down he squawks that his troll allies from the south will avenge his death.
The tengu are a good fit for the Monster Kingdom idea, but the bandits can tie into past attempts to control and tame the greenbelt.
The bandits seemed to me to make a living from robbing supply trains or at the least charging a tax to let goods pass freely through the area. Basically extortion thus accounting for the goods recovered from the Fort.
The tengu as bandits also works.
What if you turn the bandits into river pirates of some sort? There's bound to be all kinds of trade running up and down those rivers.
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Mercenaries of one of the River Kingdoms or even Issia who have been hired to portray 'bandits' in the hopes of keeping the area unstabilized until they are ready to claim the area themselves, bleeding the Rostlanders of gold and resources. That would explain why they don't need to 'profit' from their banditry. It's more for show than for dough.
The 'Stag Lord' could even be a fairly important (and ultimately recognizable) person in this faction and will help foreshadow any political stuff you throw at the party later on.
I figured that the "bandits" were robbing travellers moving through -- there would be merchants going north-south between Mivon and Brevoy, for instance, as well as people moving along the trade road from Restov. Then there would be a number of farmers/villagers keeping their heads very low (this is where some of your population growth comes from later on, integrating people who have been there for years). Fur trappers, etc., would be another source of income.
They're generally not terribly successful (one reason their numbers are low). Most of what they get goes to subsistence of their numbers. There is probably someone occasionally showing up to buy loot -- note that the Stag Lord's fort is positioned to control river traffic into Lake Candelmere, so perhaps they're mostly preying on river merchants and/or selling to them. You could use this to foreshadow something in later books -- maybe Baron Drelev is one of their sponsers, or someone from Pitax, or someone from Brevoy.
Maybe the Stag Lord is trying to establish his own frontier barony. (I could certainly see Akiros trying to head in that direction, even if Staggy isn't.) "I am the true king of the Greenbelt!"
Maybe it doesn't make any economic sense because Staggy and his father are both driven semi-insane individuals who are really Nyrissa's pest exterminators in the Stolen Lands, not really viable bandits. She just does this every generation or so to keep the place empty. (Maybe the PCs find a few remnants of burned villages, some of them very old...)
Thank you for the thoughts and ideas.
The Pengu have grown on me. As much as I'd like to have the Stag Lord equivalent call himself the Raven King, the recent showing of Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell on BBC America would make it look like I was stealing a little too hamhandedly from there - which is unfortunate because it's exactly what I would have called him even without seeing or reading JS&MN.
Instead, I believe he will be The Murder Father. (Taken from the collective noun "murder of crows" and a twist on the Native American myth of the Crow Mother.) Instead of a helm he'll have a pair of ceremonial wings carrying the same enchantments as the Stag Lord's helm.
I also like the idea of making them river bandits. That works as well for Pengu as for human bandits, and makes a lot more sense than the cross country bandits as written. They could set large nets across the rivers, dropping them to allow passage only after tolls have been negotiated. And they could similarly control fords.
Kyudoka's ideas of making the bandits mercenaries for the River Kingdoms or Issia also work fine with Pengu, and I think I'll work that in too.
Thanks for the inspirations!
Mr. G.
River bandits would also work in well with a certain undead river encounter...
The Tengu fort might be a little harder to infiltrate (a human trying to pass as a bandit is easier); and harder to get into. Tengu might not use the gate very often.
Also Owlbear
Hmmm. The undead river encounter. Nice idea. I'm picturing lots of dead Pengu and lots of Pengu afraid of that whole part of the river. :)
Excellent point about the infiltration of the fort as a human bandit. Not sure why they wouldn't use the gate, though - they can't fly.
The first time I ran it, the infiltration gambit actually made the entire fort a little too easy. I'm thinking maybe removing that as an option might be a good side effect of using Pengu.
On the other hand, it might be too much of a good thing. It's hard to imagine a really good alternative plan. I guess maybe bringing lots of food and water and laying seige might be effective. But it would also expose them to lots of random encounters.
Not sure. I'll have to focus on that and find a way to keep the climax encounter fair. I like that it's made harder, but it might be made too hard...
m
I keep reading Pengu and an picturing the artic cousins of the Tengu, more penguin, less raven.
I'm picturing the Pengu like this ones, which could be worst... or not.
I had this idea for Fengu, pink flamingo-like tengu. (With long necks that would give them reach for their bite attack...)
T.A.U. wrote: I'm picturing the Pengu like this ones, which could be worst... or not. Hee hee hee - NICE!
Philip Knowsley wrote: T.A.U. wrote: I'm picturing the Pengu like this ones, which could be worst... or not. Hee hee hee - NICE! Instead of swords they use unarmed combat and improvised weapons....
Another idea. It's been bounced around the boards before, but what if you turn this into a Wild West-style setting? Oleg's could be the last town on the frontier. The pengu/tengu could be flying river pirates with rifles and shotguns ...
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My other big change will be replacing the Sootscale Kobalds with Dread Gnomes. Not because of any change needed to the plot, but because once I thought of "The Office of Gnomeland Security" I knew I had to use it.
Instead of run-of-the-mill bandits, what about expanding Candlemere's occult presence in the campaign as part of ramping up the creepy fey-ish vibe that Kingmaker starts out with but doesn't really deliver on until ... well, the end.
The bandits are devout cultists of [insert creepy stuff here].
Also, I second the notion of the 'Wild Wild East' (Western movie-themed Stolen Lands). <grin>
I'm now thinking I'll be keeping human bandits around, but they won't be organized. They are outlaws hiding in the Stolen Lands and stealing from farms and such whenever they get the chance. A particular large gang of them will be the ones robbing Oleg, but even those guys are just in it for themselves.
Most of them will know about the Tengu incursion to the south, and they will not be welcome in Tengu territory. The Tengu have set up at the fort and are preparing an attempt to take over the same area as the PCs, but working from the south instead of the north.
You could also expand on the mentioned temple/holy site of Gyronna where the fort is located.
It would shift the activities from banditry to abduction and sacrifice (though I don't know your or your groups feelings about that).
You would have to either make all the villains female or use the bandits as henchmen acting on the high priestess' command but it would give the story a little twist and be a surprise even to your wife once your group has pierced the veil/disguise.
Couple these activities with a single priest of Hanspur and you're good to go.
Ruyan.
I suggest you be very careful in making changes, as at least one of the minor bandits is associated with a wanted poster and you should have him be located at some point (either in a bandit encounter or somewhere else), or you can replace the side-quest material as well.
Ooooh! Instead of the Stag Lord and his human bandits taking over the abandoned monastery and making it their fort, the Tengu cultists of Gyronna are there to revive it.
Maybe some of the human bandit gangs are looking for chances to abduct sacrifices to sell to the Gyronna-worshipping Tengu. Captured members of those gangs would know enough about the cult's activities that getting inside the fort will once again be possible. Instead of posing as people who belong there, they would need to pose as bandits with an abduction victim to sell. They get brought inside the walls and can begin their murderhobo activites.
It would be worth it just for the look of confusion on the player's faces when they see a bunch of obviously avian-related priestesses with pet cats....
You've just added a whole new subplot to my Kingmaker! Thanks!
Mashall
If you really want to have fun ... then what if the tengu's leader/high priestess is a disguised hag? The hags could then become a long-running adversary for at least the first half of Kingmaker.
Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
A lot of those ideas listed above sound pretty good too.
This prompted me to look through the forums for Gyronna-related stuff. I came across the thread questioning why Gyronna cultists would have a great big fort when they normally just have piles of rocks for shrines. It was suggested there that the original cultists there were heretics for which they received Gyronna's curse and became zombies. I like that.
So... what heresy would require the original cult to have a fort??
Perhaps the fort was already there and abandoned when the original cult found it. The failed defense of some long-forgotten general. The Gyronnists used it for shelter and set up a small shrine inside. Taking up residence there, they restored it. Finding themselves inside a reasonably defensible fortress, after a generation or two they turned their eyes to conquest and neglected their goddess in favor of riches and power. They began saying that their goddess required things that she never communicated to them - she began to be used as an excuse for whatever the leaders wanted. Their power began to spread, Gyronna got jealous, and she smote them all. And the fortress fell back into disuse.
The Pengu, knowing the history, decided to reconsecrate the place and try to gain favor with their goddess by using the fortress as a foundation to build what they hope will eventually become a pilgrimage site, capable of housing the faithful visitors as well as serving as a base for traveling evangelists.
How Gyronna will feel about this is not yet known since they've only just begun. But I'm thinking it will annoy her. When the PCs come and wipe the place out, they may gain the favor of Gyronna for a while. Which would be a bit awkward - Lawful Good and Lawful Neutral people with the favor of a Chaotic Evil goddess will have some internal conflict to resolve...
Yes, her worshipers prefer piles of stone ... but anybody with a Wis of 11 or better realizes stone walls are defensible.
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In the absence of the Stag Lord, Davik Nettles' story needs to be reworked.
My thoughts:
When Davik set up his crossing, he brought his wife with him. As time passed she became pregnant. A few days after his daughter was born the priestesses of Gyronna came in the night and stole away the infant, replacing her with a beastly little demon creature.
Suspecting the cult, Davik set off to find his daughter. In his absence, the Murder Hag (as the high priestess shall be known - perfect for the leader of a bunch of crow people who follow Gyronna) paid his wife a visit.
She told lies about Davik and, with a mixture of psychology and magic, turned Davik's wife against him. She was convinced that the loss of their daughter was Davik's fault. When Davik returned from his unsuccessful search his wife lured him out to the bridge and surprised him with a knife. In the struggle, they were both badly wounded and fell into the water to drown.
The loss of his daughter and the betrayal by his wife drove his spirit insane and he has returned in his current form to seek vengeance upon the Murder Hag.
The cries and squeals of the orphaned demon infant drew the attention of fey who whisked him away to the First World and raised him there for their own dark purposes. (dun dun dun!)
Cool Mr Grogg.
You could have all of those sound effects in the background when describing the scene to the players.
You could also possibly tie a haunt to the place...just to spice things up...
Mr. Grogg's idea of a child-stealing hag could have creepy/scary implications early on, if you adopt the concept (common here) that Svetlana and Oleg are expecting. One or both of them may fear/expect the same, since they likely knew Mr. & Mrs. Nettles.
In my campaign, I'm not running in the Stolen Lands, I set up the Stag Lord & company as members of the losing faction in the last civil war in "Brevoy-equivalent". They were here to try to build up power/wear down Restov's power.
Mr. Grogg wrote: Ooooh! Instead of the Stag Lord and his human bandits taking over the abandoned monastery and making it their fort, the Tengu cultists of Gyronna are there to revive it.
[snip]
You've just added a whole new subplot to my Kingmaker! Thanks!
Mashall
Sounds good and glad to be of help.
Regarding Davik: what about his wife being a priestess of Gyronna who abducted their child? Keep the murder hag as high priestess.
Besides: have you thought about the owlbear? Do you want to keep it or rather replace it with something else. Easiest would be a big black cat (tiger) as this is Gyronna's sacrede animal (give it to a ranger {Staglord replacement} as animal companion).
I personally still like the idea of the Hanspur priest (sorry for the shameless self-plug)--you could tie various deaths to him setting him up as a red herring to the Gyronna plot and build him up as a recurring villain who levels with them (more or less) and culminate this side plot into the PCs actively hunting him down after the priest killed a person near/dear to (one of) them.
Ruyan.
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I was looking at pictures of Tengu, and was struck by how much they look like plague doctors. In fact, I'd be surprised if I found out that they weren't inspired by plague doctors. And that gave me another idea.
To foreshadow them a bit, a trapper at Oleg's will mention that he suspects there's Plague to the south. He was hunting down there when he saw, way off in the distance, three plague doctors conferring with one another. And there would be no reason for a plague doctor to be wearing his plague doctoring outfit if there wasn't a plague. And there were three of them so it must be pretty bad. So, upon seeing them, he hightailed it north to get away from plague country.
Of course, what he saw were three Tengu. He just didn't get a close enough look to realize he was seeing monsters.
Recent threads in Kingmaker
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