Divine Protection Errata

[Melkiador]

If you are talking of how the save feats are different than weapon focus, consider that the save feat gives a +2 to a save, while weapon focus only gives +1. So, the saves version of weapon finesse should be twice as good, since it's baseline is twice as good.

[Dragon78]

I like the idea of the cha mod replacing con, dex, or wis mod for a save.

[thejeff]

Dragon78 wrote:

I like the idea of the cha mod replacing con, dex, or wis mod for a save.

It still lets an already SAD character become even more so. Not a great idea. With that, an Oracle or Sorcerer can dump everything but Cha (and Con for hp.)

[Charon's Little Helper]

Melkiador wrote:

If you are talking of how the save feats are different than weapon focus, consider that the save feat gives a +2 to a save, while weapon focus only gives +1. So, the saves version of weapon finesse should be twice as good, since it's baseline is twice as good.

Frankly - if a game was already balanced between different fighting styles etc, and they then released Weapon Finesse - it'd be crazy OP. But that's not how it happened.

Weapon Finesse was released in core with the assumption that any dex melee character would pick it up ASAP as the cost of doing business, and the game was balanced from there. (It's why Pathfinder removed the +1 BAB req from 3.5 - it hosed dex rogues for the first couple levels.)

You can't balance later additions to the game against such a feat.

[the_move]

Divine Protection is still nice for any Swashbuckler. Anyone else can now skip it.

[the_move]

Charon's Little Helper wrote:

The opportunity cost of dipping Paladin is far higher than a feat or two, especially for spell-casters (such as Oracle). Even at 1/2 Cha it could easily give +5 to all saves at higher levels. That's stupidly OP even for 2 feats.

As it is now an Oracle/Sorcerer probably does not get anything big to any save, since CHA is not tied to any of those. A Paladin had no interest in the previous Divine Protection, since it provided only a +1 increase for him.

Further while the previous of Divine Protection USED your CHA modifier INSTEAD of your other ability modifiers on any save, his Aura of Protection is still more potent, as it grants his CHA additionally to any save along with the other ability modifier (stacking).

So this comparison is flawed.

[the_move]

Dekalinder wrote:

Weapon Finess substitute one other stat, does not add on top. Subbing char for wis on will for example would be a completely reasonable feat (that also already existed in 3.5).

You are talking about DEX. DEX already has more to contribute than any other ability.

- adds to ranged (touch) attacks, also relevant for spellcasters
- adds to AC
- adds to initiative
- adds to Dex saving throws
- with Weapon Finesse adds to melee attacks...

Well, even without Weapon Finesse many classes invest in DEX for obvious reasons.