Shadowrun-to-Pathfinder conversion?


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Liberty's Edge

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Greetings,

I took up Pathfinder recently, and one of my relatives also took up Shadowrun. I have looked it over, and while I definitely want to play and admire the amount of work that has gone into the atmosphere, I am not too fond of the system it runs on; for instance, only D6's are used, and the way combat is handled is completely different (there aren't even tabletop minatures, and Shadowrun was first made by a company whose flagship product at the time was tabletop ONLY).

I did find a document where some people tried to convert Shadowrun to the d20 Modern system, but it was abandoned a few years ago, being half-finished. In addition, it was based on Shadowrun 3rd Edition.

Is there anyone on here that would like to get 4th/5th Edition Shadowrun converted to the Pathfinder version of d20? (Seeing Pathfinder's spells, monsters and playable races in a Shadowrun setting would actually be very interesting. Rust monsters destroying old sports cars and prismatic walls blocking off UAVs, for instance.)

The Shadowrun D20 document that I found is on my computer right now, so if anybody wants to look at it to get the Shadowrun/Pathfinder thing started then just ask me for my email via a private message.

Scarab Sages

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The technology guide is perfect for this, and covers everything except decking.

Liberty's Edge

I'll have to look into that, thanks (still a lot of Pathfinder books I don't own yet). Before I actually get it, though... does it include something similar to Resonance, info on augmentations (both cybernetic and biological), and/or anything that resembles the "Gremlins" negative quirk?

I am not the best at actually converting things, so it would take quite a bit of work if I attempted to do this alone on top of my own RPG project.


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Dude, talk about parallel thought, I was just looking for a D20 conversion. What I was going to try was the p6codex and the technology guide and maybe figure out a way to conver the shadow run player character table.

Liberty's Edge

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I decided to make a link to your other post. I also sent you a link to the document via email, and am going to put the link here.

<OLD> Shadowrun D20 Conversion Document (Not Mine)


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Just play Shadowrun. It's a great system.

Liberty's Edge

I never said it didn't have a good system, just that from what people have told me, Shadowrun's proprietary system is generally more complex to get the hang of than some other game systems out there, particularly for people who are already accustomed to a more open system like D20.

Besides, a bunch of other RPGs are getting converted to Pathfinder's system, why can't Shadowrun get the same treatment? If a conversion is done properly, then it can only serve to make something that's already good even better... and more open to newcomers as well, both on the GM side and the player side. And honestly, who wouldn't want to yell "Nat 20!" when cracking into Ares paydata? You can't do that with a bunch of D6's.


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I really don't see a need to convert Shadowrun to Pathfinder. But it could make sense to convert to d20 Modern or Savage Worlds.


Nice link...the ability damage and ritual sacrifice spell systems are particularly interesting. makes casting more thematic and book like.
I'd rather play Shadowrun as a D20 system too. I played the original, and while it was fun, the system is inferior to d20 IMHO.

Liberty's Edge

Claxon wrote:
I really don't see a need to convert Shadowrun to Pathfinder. But it could make sense to convert to d20 Modern or Savage Worlds.

Any particular advantages to Modern and Savage Worlds, besides that Modern has "Ballistic" and "Concussive" damage types and more refined rules for firearms? I haven't even heard of Savage Worlds, but as for Pathfinder versus Modern, I think a mix of the two would be the best option. Pathfinder is more refined overall, and by making a proper Shadowrun-to-Pathfinder conversion, then it would be just that little bit easier to integrate all of the existing Pathfinder material into your setting. Finally, now this is just a minor pet peeve, but I don't like how anything of an even remotely supernatural nature is referred to as "FX" in D20 Modern.

Perhaps you don't want to recreate the original Sixth World Earth setting, but instead want to make a similar cyberpunk version of an existing setting using all of the same Shadowrun vibes. In that case, you can keep all of your Oracles, Alchemists, Psionicists and Paladins, but throw things like Street Sams and Technomancers into the mix. (And yes, I just said Psionicist, I still have the AD&D 2nd Edition Psionics Handbook.)


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I wouldn't base anything off of D20 modern...it seemed really lame to me...with all the "Fast Hero", "Smart Hero" BS....way to generic for my liking...but that's just my opinion.
Never played Savage worlds myself.

Liberty's Edge

Yeah, D20 Modern is pretty much crap. Again, I only find interest in it for the firearm rules and the new damage types.

I am going to look for some info on that Savage Worlds thing, and maybe work some more on my own project.


I have played D&D since the 80's and Shadowrun since 1st Ed (& many many other systems). I love both and find playing different systems refreshing, it recharges my batteries and none of the systems I love go stale.

I would be hesitant to invest my time in a massive project (because I wouldn't want to slap some stuff together and call it Shadowrun ) that other people may refuse to play because it's not the real thing.

If I were to do it I would use D20 modern, SRD is free. Maybe pick up pick up the future sourcebook, and take a look at the Spycraft books. There are a lot of very cheep 3rd party books/PDFs out there that will suit your needs (why do the work when somebody else has).

I would probably set it now/near future with goblinisation, the eurowars, and the great ghost dance happening.


Larkspire wrote:

I wouldn't base anything off of D20 modern...it seemed really lame to me...with all the "Fast Hero", "Smart Hero" BS....way to generic for my liking...but that's just my opinion.

Never played Savage worlds myself.

D20 modern is a much deeper game than that. It's a different approach to the restrictive class system that pervades D20 games. I recommend that you take the time to look how it works. The initial classes are something you build from and move on to the advanced classes.


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No way in hell you can convert the initiative or the magic system of shadowrun into d20 system without butchering it.


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Shadowrun is a fantastic setting, and it's mechanics make spellcasting dangerous, combat very gritty, and the power difference between a new character and a seasoned vet minimal.

The d20 systems are just the opposite of that.

You'd best adopt systems that link ability damage or fatigue levels to spellcasting, a wound/vitality system that makes any attack roll in combat potentially fatal at any level, and throw wealthj-by-level out the window.


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MeanMutton wrote:
Just play Shadowrun. It's a great system.

This shadow run is a Way better system unless you want to move away from the atmosphere and be superheroes in a World made for cyperpunk.

I would be more interested in a conversion the other Way since wizards that Can do everything was never my favorite part of fantasy.


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Seth Dresari wrote:
Claxon wrote:
I really don't see a need to convert Shadowrun to Pathfinder. But it could make sense to convert to d20 Modern or Savage Worlds.

Any particular advantages to Modern and Savage Worlds, besides that Modern has "Ballistic" and "Concussive" damage types and more refined rules for firearms? I haven't even heard of Savage Worlds, but as for Pathfinder versus Modern, I think a mix of the two would be the best option. Pathfinder is more refined overall, and by making a proper Shadowrun-to-Pathfinder conversion, then it would be just that little bit easier to integrate all of the existing Pathfinder material into your setting. Finally, now this is just a minor pet peeve, but I don't like how anything of an even remotely supernatural nature is referred to as "FX" in D20 Modern.

Perhaps you don't want to recreate the original Sixth World Earth setting, but instead want to make a similar cyberpunk version of an existing setting using all of the same Shadowrun vibes. In that case, you can keep all of your Oracles, Alchemists, Psionicists and Paladins, but throw things like Street Sams and Technomancers into the mix. (And yes, I just said Psionicist, I still have the AD&D 2nd Edition Psionics Handbook.)

The main problems is that the mechanics of Pathfinder don't support the setting and feel of Shadowrun.


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Claxon wrote:


The main problems is that the mechanics of Pathfinder don't support the setting and feel of Shadowrun.

This. And don't even get me started on how magic is treated. If some mad wizard took over an office building and tried to rule Seattle from his wizard throne, no one would be sending three to five heroes into the building to reclaim it and save the city. Knight Errant would evacuate the area and an Ares Firewatch team would shell the building and shoot the wizard if he tried to escape.

Being a mage in SR isn't a one-way trip to power-town like it is in d20. You think a geas is bad? The worst a mage can do is kill you or turn you into an animal. No mage ever filled a guy with so much 'ware his immune system tried to kill him just to force compliance by stringing him along on anti-rejection drugs. Money trumps magic one hundred percent of the time.


Watch the Product Discussion section for an announcement regarding playtest for a conversion of the cyberpunk Savage Worlds setting Interface Zero 2.0. (The playtest document is going to layout as I type, so it shouldn't be too long before our project lead announces it)

There's not a magic component to the setting, but it does have a psionic class, and you could add magic back in if desired. There would need to be some conversions to balance it against weapons technology, but it shouldn't be impossible.


Savage Worlds has a 3rd party campaign setting called Interface Zero 2.0 that's entirely cyberpunk. It's basically Shadowrun, minus the magic.

The good news is that Savage Worlds core has Magic in it, so you just need to use those rules.

Interface Zero 2.0 is currently in the process of being ported to Pathfinder, though last I heard it was stuck in layout / editing for a few months now.

My group loved the setting and ideas of Shadowrun, but even the streamlined 5e is a huge chore to play due to how fiddly it is. If we play it again, it'll be done in Savage Worlds with Interface Zero 2.0 + Savage World's magic.

There are a number of fan conversions from SavWorlds to Shadowrun too.


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Which is what Mum-Rob just said, d'oh.


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As someone that has played Shadowrun up to 3E I can't see how it's possible without losing the essence of Shadowrun.

It's a classless system for a start that allows you to specialise or go jack of all trades. You want to be a Spell slinging Decker, you can be. Class based systems just can't reproduce that kind of flexibility.

Also there's combat. Shadowrun combat, when done right, is deadly. If you get shot it seriously nerfs your effectiveness. There's no being 100% effective until you fall unconscious like in d20. Once a fight starts to go wrong it spirals out very quickly. In general I find that if the fight isn't over in 1 or 2 turns it has gone badly wrong and a PC is going to die.

Also, I think the non-combat system in d20 just isn't as rich as a skill based system like Shadowrun. The success based mechanic allows for a far more granular success/fail basis and it also means that no skill task is impossible. It might be very improbable but it's always possible.

The main issue with Shadowrun is the wonky probability model. It's wonky in both 3E and also in 4/5E, just different kinds of wonky.

The other issue with converting 5e is that if people think that the ACG editing was poor, then the Shadowrun 5 book sinks to a whole new level.

Finally, I think you can get that "Nat 20" moment. In 3E facing a task with a TN of 12, rolling a 6 and then praying for the 2nd 6 is just as exciting.


Earthpig wrote:

As someone that has played Shadowrun up to 3E I can't see how it's possible without losing the essence of Shadowrun.

It's a classless system for a start that allows you to specialise or go jack of all trades. You want to be a Spell slinging Decker, you can be. Class based systems just can't reproduce that kind of flexibility.

Also there's combat. Shadowrun combat, when done right, is deadly. If you get shot it seriously nerfs your effectiveness. There's no being 100% effective until you fall unconscious like in d20. Once a fight starts to go wrong it spirals out very quickly. In general I find that if the fight isn't over in 1 or 2 turns it has gone badly wrong and a PC is going to die.

Also, I think the non-combat system in d20 just isn't as rich as a skill based system like Shadowrun. The success based mechanic allows for a far more granular success/fail basis and it also means that no skill task is impossible. It might be very improbable but it's always possible.

The main issue with Shadowrun is the wonky probability model. It's wonky in both 3E and also in 4/5E, just different kinds of wonky.

The other issue with converting 5e is that if people think that the ACG editing was poor, then the Shadowrun 5 book sinks to a whole new level.

Finally, I think you can get that "Nat 20" moment. In 3E facing a task with a TN of 12, rolling a 6 and then praying for the 2nd 6 is just as exciting.

OTOH, someone might like the concept of the setting, with cybertech & magic and high weirdness, but not actual want the deadly mechanics or gritty feel.

I think I generally agree with you, but I could see high fantasy in that setting being fun too. Translating to PF definitely will be a different feel, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Liberty's Edge

To solve the issue of the classes system, keep in mind that there are dozens of classes in Pathfinder, with many archetypes, and there is also the matter of multiclassing. In fact, you could probably make changes to the classes to encourage mixing and matching, or make classes little more than a starting package and instead base things off advancement trees. Want a little bit of Rogue? Next level up, just put a few build points into stealth abilities. Want a little bit of monk? Put a few build points into parkour. Want to give Resonance (computers), Psionics and/or Magic a try? There are already multiple classes and archetypes that give you some of those things, so just put some build points into those respective advancement trees.

Also, by mixing the Pathfinder system with Shadowrun's magic rules, spellcasters wouldn't be progressively overpowered; the more powerful they get, the more problems they would encounter to help keep them in check. Things like having to save to prevent ability damage when casting higher-level spells (the saves getting harder and harder), and random instabilities such as surges in magic that can't be controlled.

Everybody keeps mentioning Savage Worlds/Interface Zero 2.0, but this topic is specifically about converting 4th and 5th Edition Shadowrun to a variation of D20 (mixing some of Pathfinder's rules with some of Modern/Future's rules, and taking a few nods from Shadowrun's original system like Karma and Positive/Negative qualities). If anyone wanted, you could even work to streamline combat a little bit like in 5th Edition D&D in the form of optional rules, like auto-confirming critical hits or separating the Main saves into individual Ability saves.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

Your biggest issue from a design perspective is going to be how to manage the balance between firearms and magic. Paizo's existing system is designed for flintlock/wheellock level firearms, and doesn't scale well with the harder hitting, faster shooting, further ranging firearms technology available in a world like Shadowrun. Whether you use Rogue Genius' system from Anachronistic Adventurers, one of the other systems available from other designers, or brew your own, given the prevalence of firearms in the setting, that's going to be the make-or-break point for your conversion.

Your biggest point in that balance is going to be the decision for how magic scales power-wise versus firearms. Do you try and keep them equally balanced? Tilt in the favor of firearms? That single design choice is going to set the tone for your whole conversion.


dotting for interest.

Liberty's Edge

Yeah, Kharis actually brings up a good point. Everybody says Pathfinder spellcasters would be OP as all drek in Shadowrun, but you have to remember that neither magic robes nor chainmail due too well against 800 9mm bullets a minute. (We are probably gonna be using Modern's rules for Firearms and Explosives, as opposed to PF's firearm and explosive rules.) Assume that force = mass * acceleration, and that a 9mm bullet weighs about as much as a bolt fired from a small size light crossbow, but travels at almost a thousand feet per second. That would be at least 1d8 damage, possibly 1d10 or even 1d12 if it hits you in the chest. Now imagine you have a magic MP5 (rate of fire: 800 rpm) with infinite ammo and it has +9 to hit. If you do a full-round attack, and every single shot lands, that would be 200d8 damage (granted, you would have to role for each individual bullet to hit, with a penalty increasing by 1 for every ten bullets). No wizard could survive that, even if they were wearing magic Full Plate armor that didn't inhibit their spellcasting.

Granted, the armor from back then was designed to protect from swords, not bullets, just as the armor from today is designed to protect from bullets but not swords... So perhaps a Bulletproof vest would be the best bet for spellcasters, and Light Armor Proficiency would be pretty much mandatory for all classes.

Anyways, back on the topic of classes limiting Shadowrun's room for creativity, I actually think it is BS. Here's an entire thread about why.

Liberty's Edge

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Okay, quick correction on my previous post regarding the amount of damage an MP5 would do in a full-round attack; it would actually be 60d8, not 200d8. I was thinking in Robotech RPG terms (one round = 15 seconds) rather than Pathfinder terms (1 round = 6 seconds). You would still have to roll for attack with each burst of 10 shots, at a cumulative -1 penalty for each burst during the full-round attack.

- - - - - -

Also, I think I know where it all really comes apart with Shadowrun versus D20; everybody blames it on classes, when literally every day, I see examples to the contrary. The real atmosphere-killer in D20 is the Alignment system. Shadowrun doesn't have alignments; the closest it might have are personality types, but such a thing would only serve as a roleplaying guideline, and when you consider that most cyberpunk settings run on Blue and Orange morality (aka Grey and Grey) rather than a clearly defined "Good and Evil!" system, the concept of alignments just clashes with the old system.


Seth Dresari wrote:


Anyways, back on the topic of classes limiting Shadowrun's room for creativity, I actually think it is BS. Here's an entire thread about why.

The problems of a class and level system in Shadowrun have nothing to do with class names and everything to do with how characters advance in Shadowrun. Assuming you get the same amount of Karma each run, the cost of raising two skills or attributes that are at the same rating will be identical in terms of time and resource investment. But d20 prefers to only keep track of levels up to 20, meaning you'd only get twenty levels worth of advancement and each one would be more costly than the last. A Street Samurai improving his Infiltration and Palming skills is not the same as taking a level in rogue because, when Sammy decides to return to his study in the practical applications of fully-automatic firearms, it's not going to cost him any more than if he had done it earlier, whereas taking that level of rogue means not only that the next level will take longer to reach, but also that the opportunity cost of raising stealth skill instead of combat skill is coming out of his twenty levels worth of progression.


Neurophage wrote:
Seth Dresari wrote:


Anyways, back on the topic of classes limiting Shadowrun's room for creativity, I actually think it is BS. Here's an entire thread about why.
The problems of a class and level system in Shadowrun have nothing to do with class names and everything to do with how characters advance in Shadowrun. Assuming you get the same amount of Karma each run, the cost of raising two skills or attributes that are at the same rating will be identical in terms of time and resource investment. But d20 prefers to only keep track of levels up to 20, meaning you'd only get twenty levels worth of advancement and each one would be more costly than the last. A Street Samurai improving his Infiltration and Palming skills is not the same as taking a level in rogue because, when Sammy decides to return to his study in the practical applications of fully-automatic firearms, it's not going to cost him any more than if he had done it earlier, whereas taking that level of rogue means not only that the next level will take longer to reach, but also that the opportunity cost of raising stealth skill instead of combat skill is coming out of his twenty levels worth of progression.

OTOH, though I haven't played a lot of SR, my impression was that improvement was much more gradual than in PF. You don't go from farm boy to demigod, but from pretty bad ass to really bad ass.

It's not the class name problem and it's not even really the problem of changing costs you're talking about. It's the sheer boost of the PF level system. If I wanted to come close to the same feel in PF, I'd probably do something like E6. Possibly starting at 6th level - or maybe 4th or 5th.
OTOH, as I think I said above, it might be fun to play in the Shadowrun setting with something closer to PF expectations - starting weaker than the average ganger and ending by kicking Great Dragon tail.


thejeff wrote:

OTOH, though I haven't played a lot of SR, my impression was that improvement was much more gradual than in PF. You don't go from farm boy to demigod, but from pretty bad ass to really bad ass.

It's not the class name problem and it's not even really the problem of changing costs you're talking about. It's the sheer boost of the PF level system. If I wanted to come close to the same feel in PF, I'd probably do something like E6. Possibly starting at 6th level - or maybe 4th or 5th.
OTOH, as I think I said above, it might be fun to play in the Shadowrun setting with something closer to PF expectations - starting weaker than the average ganger and ending by kicking Great Dragon tail.

This is also true. Attributes and skills all have soft- and hard-caps. A Sammy who wants to be good at nearly every kind of combat can run into the soft-caps during chargen without even trying, while a specialist who wants to be a master of one skill can easily hit the hard caps. Most of the important die bonuses come from equipment and augments. The early game has less to do with getting better at what you're already good at (except for buying gear and augments to make you even better at it) and more to do with diversifying your skill set to cover your most important shortcomings.

Also, it would pretty hard to improve on the available dragon-slaying methods that already exist in the game. It might be hard to escalate beyond hitting the entire area with tungsten lances fired from space satellites.

Liberty's Edge

Neurophage wrote:
The problems of a class and level system in Shadowrun have nothing to do with class names and everything to do with how characters advance in Shadowrun. Assuming you get the same amount of Karma each run, the cost of raising two skills or attributes that are at the same rating will be identical in terms of time and resource investment. But d20 prefers to only keep track of levels up to 20, meaning you'd only get twenty levels worth of advancement and each one would be more costly than the last. A Street Samurai improving his Infiltration and Palming skills is not the same as taking a level in rogue because, when Sammy decides to return to his study in the practical applications of fully-automatic firearms, it's not going to cost him any more than if he had done it earlier, whereas taking that level of rogue means not only that the next level will take longer to reach, but also that the opportunity cost of raising stealth skill instead of combat skill is coming out of his twenty levels worth of progression.

I am experimenting with a few solutions to problems like that, but it would require private messaging. I am trying to save them for my own, non-Shadowrun project. However, if you check my other thread about Multiclassing, it could give you a few ideas (some of which were contributed my other people).

Another idea I wanted to try though, and I will go ahead and say it out loud; raise the level cap, but not enough to max out two different classes. Keep each class at a max level of 20, but make the maximum character level 25 or something.

As for XP, don't make it exponential, but rather a little more like PFS; it takes a fixed amount of XP to get to every level, every time. Or maybe different classes would level up independently from eachother; if you are a Level 5 fighter and want to take a level in rogue, then you could either take a long time to get to Level 6 fighter or a short time to get to Level 1 rogue.

thejeff wrote:

OTOH, as I think I said above, it might be fun to play in the Shadowrun setting with something closer to PF expectations - starting weaker than the average ganger and ending by kicking Great Dragon tail.

So... We're playing as Tetsuo from Akira?

Off-Topic: What is 6E, and what is OTOH?


Seth Dresari wrote:
Off-Topic: What is 6E, and what is OTOH?

E6 is a collection of D&D 3.5 homebrew which stops character progression at level 6. After that, every 5000 XP, a character gains a new feat. It includes feats that allow something approaching an alternative to level progression. It was made on the premise that, after level 5, it's hard to really consider characters mortal the same way level 1 NPCs are mortal.

OTOH=On the other hand.

Liberty's Edge

Okay, thanks for that info.

Anyways, maybe one way to keep diversifying from being a punishing endeavor would be to set it up like this:

If you are dual-classing, then for every level you gain in one class you will gain half of a level in the other. If you are triple-classing, then for every level you gain in one class, you will gain one third f a level in the other two. Quad-classing, one fourth of a level in the other three classes... So on and so forth. Not a perfect solution, but it would prevent having 10 levels in each of 20 different classes by the time you get to Level 20.


Mutants and Masterminds would be much much easier than PF it's still D20 at its base but it has far more flexibility.


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I have to cast my vote with urging you to stick with the Shadowrun system. I've played both from their inceptions, and the systems are tuned well to their respective genres. Pathfinder characters are high-fantasy heroic, able to shrug off massive wounds and keep fighting to the end. Wizards are like gods to the man on the street, and the actual gods will bend the rules to keep great heroes alive. The rules support this well (well, fairly well).

Shadowrun, though, is necessarily different. Fights are brutal and fatal. Wounds HURT, and magic is taxing and can turn on you. The system helps to support this feeling of desperation and menace.

Years ago, I surprised my 2e campaign players by dropping them (via gate) into the Shadowrun world. I converted all their characters over a weekend, and the next session, I just started off with exposition. They were in an abandoned warehouse that had huge holes in its walls. Several bodies were seen huddled around the open room, snoring. When the party paladin approached one, he was shocked to find an orc. All of a sudden, a noise like a swarm of angry dire wasps was heard from outside. The orc squatters all panicked and tried to run, as a band of cybered-up bodyjackers crashed the squat, looking to take a few captives. The paladin (a bit of a swashbuckler) leapt to the defense of one of them, yelling something like, "Unhand that man!"

At which point the bodyjacker looked at him, sneered, and unloaded half-a-clip of SMG fire into his stomach. I handed them their new character sheets, gave them a second, then said, "You just took 9 boxes of physical trauma. Welcome to the Death Spiral."

They treated Seattle like a g*#%!&n warzone after that.

Shadowrun might have magic, but it is a cyberpunk game at heart. The ruleset for Pathfinder just doesn't fit.

Liberty's Edge

Necroluth wrote:
At which point the bodyjacker looked at him, sneered, and unloaded half-a-clip of SMG fire into his stomach. I handed them their new character sheets, gave them a second, then said, "You just took 9 boxes of physical trauma. Welcome to the Death Spiral."

Did you just say "half-a-clip"?! Those are not clips, you pixie, they're magazines!

The 8th Dwarf wrote:
Mutants and Masterminds would be much much easier than PF it's still D20 at its base but it has far more flexibility.

In what ways? It is not out of the question to mix-and-match rules from different D20 games. (To be honest, I don't actually know anything about Mutants and Masterminds, other than it is superhero related.)

- - - - -

I do not want to create a true replacement for Shadowrun, but... well, there is literally no reason we can't at least try to do this thing before just dumping the whole concept. You don't know whether or not a Shadowfinder (Pathrun?) conversion will work until you actually make it happen and see what follows.


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Well, if I were going to approach this task I'd look at the following:

- scrap the class system. Go through every class and assign an XP 'cost' to every element of the class system eg +1 to BAB costs 100 XP, +1 to a Save costs 100 XP, 1st point in a skill costs 100XP and additional skill points costs cumulative 10 xp per rank (rank 2 = 20, rank 3 = 30, etc), level 0 spells cost 500XP, etc

- start lvl 1 characters with 1000XP and buy the features they want for their character - similar to how Dark Heresy and the other WH40K games work. As they gain XP they spend it on new features.

- All characters have the same HP progression. A first level character gets 10HP + con bonus. Then + 1 per level, no per level bonus from CON. Instead create a damage reduction mechanic using the CON bonus. Create damage thresholds at 25%, 50% and 75% of max HP at which various penalties arise on any d20 roll

- Create a Drain mechanic, probably something along the lines of a will save with a DC dependant on the spell level, which if failed does non-lethal damage to the caster

- Go through the spell list and boil it down to a much smaller universal list of maybe 10-20 per level. All casters cast like sorcerers, from the same list of spells.

- Recalculate all damage values for weapons, spells, etc to fit the new HP system so that a PC can take 2-3 hits before dropping.

Needs something to replicate the dice pool mechanic particularly in combat, but not sure what that is yet. Maybe something along the lines of the inspiration mechanism that the Investigator has.

All need to work out how to create a degrees of success mechanic for skills, and allow for remote probability tasks to be possible at less than 5% probability - maybe a nat 20 allows a reroll with +10? so DC30 with no bonus has a probability of 2.5%, DC 40 0.25%, DC 50
0.125%

oh, and initiative. Sams/mages need to be able to carry out multiple full actions per turn after the uncybered guys have taken their actions.

Liberty's Edge

I am still kind of iffy about scrapping classes in their entirety... As for the drain mechanic, would that be in place of Spells per Day, or would it go on top of that? Like, each spell has a different "cost" to use, and once you run out of charges you start experiencing drain? I also don't like the idea of removing a whole bunch of spells at once (besides detect alignment, that can go to hell) rather than just trying to rebalance them. For instance, you can resurrect somebody at any time you want, but it will use up all of your Spell Charge and then some, knocking yourself unconscious in the process and temporarily draining most of your attributes.


Wow. Lots of belly-aching masquerading as love for shadowrun while turning a blind eye at the very real flaws in the shadowrun system. I say run it for pathfinder see what happens. Worst case scenario is that it doesn't work. The earlier link is far from perfect,but has some interesting bits in it.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I had to look up shadowrun to get an idea of what to reccomend because I don't know Shadowrun very well.

The products that I can think of that may help you;

NeuroSpasta will give you a lot of basic tools for technopunk/fantasy including the framework for a setting to work with.

Anachronistic Adventures gives you a lot to do with generic modern characters, particularly if you want to ban casters and downplay magic the six classes can easily replace every other class as if you were playing d20 Modern. Its also handy that it does handle magic and technology in subdued ways rather than full blown class-based super magic/tech. The Modern Path I find more system disrupting than Anachronistic Adventures but is sufficient if you want to go classless. You can check that one out on d20pfsrd.com.

Fall of Man is something I got my hands on but have not looked at it deeply enough to form a decent opinion about but from what I gathered it's a post-disaster modern/magic setting and tools.

Other than that the Technology Guide in conjunction with Fantastic Technology and Treasury of the Machine will handle a LOT of your technological item needs.

Liberty's Edge

@Freehold

Besides, it would be interesting building a Shadowrun-style setting on top of an OGL-compatible world, because on top of the megacorporations and crime syndicates, you also have deities; not watching over all teams of Shadowrunners, since there are just too many, but definitely trying to help the ones that have even the remote possibility of making a difference in their favor (translation; the players and any 'rivals' they have). And who knows, we might very well end up with an Akira situation later on. With less mutations, anyways.

@Malwing I never said we should ban spellcasting, just make the use of magic a bit more risky.

- - - -

Slightly off topic; If we still have things like potions and extracts, we should include the table that you have to roll when they accidentally mix.


Pathfinder Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Sorry I wasn't clear, Anachronistic Adventures isn't a means of banning magic but it does limit it if you just use the six classes in it. I had originally gotten one of it's previous component products, The Sensitive, because until Occult Adventures was announced there wasn't a real low-magic Penny Dreadful-type mage. If you want to keep high magic and use Anachronistic Adventurers you can just allow all the other classes too.

Anyways let me know if you want more details. Aside from Modern Path I'm relatively familiar with each of the products I mentioned.

Liberty's Edge

If you have all of this stuff, then there is literally nothing stopping you from mixing and matching.

When in doubt... Fire everything!

Anyways, I wonder how we could combine the [u]lore[/u] of Shadowrun and of Pathfinder.


Freehold DM wrote:
Wow. Lots of belly-aching masquerading as love for shadowrun while turning a blind eye at the very real flaws in the shadowrun system. I say run it for pathfinder see what happens. Worst case scenario is that it doesn't work. The earlier link is far from perfect,but has some interesting bits in it.

Certainly true. I never had a lot of love for Shadowrun mechanics. Part of why I never played much of it despite being fascinated by the setting. Still, I think PF mechanics will produce a very different feel in terms both of lethality and power level and that may or may not work well. If I was going to try to convert it, I'd be tempted to use something other than PF. Not sure what exactly. :)

Or, as I suggested above, a level limited E6 kind of PF approach.


Pathfinder Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Seth Dresari wrote:

If you have all of this stuff, then there is literally nothing stopping you from mixing and matching.

When in doubt... Fire everything!

Anyways, I wonder how we could combine the [u]lore[/u] of Shadowrun and of Pathfinder.

Using everything at once makes players scared because it's a lot of new content. I generally use a few things at a time and try to make the adventure be able to compliment the mechanics.

Liberty's Edge

Oh. *facepalms*
I am not smart. My intelligence score is high, but my wisdom is low.

Anyways, I really need to start working on my other RPG again. Catch you guys later.

Liberty's Edge

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Okay, so to compromise between D20's class system and Shadowrun's classless system, we will use Advancement Trees.

Martial:
The Martial advancement tree shows you the stuff you would normally get from classes like Fighter, Barbarian, and Monk, later splitting off into the Covert sub-tree where you would get things like Rogue, Ninja and Assassin.

Magic:
Shows you the stuff of Arcane casters, Divine casters AND Alchemists. Alchemy is essentially the magical counterpart to Chemistry, which is why some things would be possible through Alchemy that wouldn't be possible through normal Chemistry. However, despite having no verbal or somantic components (or drain), Alchemy always requires material components (even with Eschew Materials), and even when memorized cannot be used spontaneously (through preparing it can be done on the fly as long as you have the ingredients!)

As for the Arcane/Divine argument, some spells are Arcane while others are Divine, the former requiring more energy and being harder to control and the latter requiring you to adhere to your deity's principles. Most spells are both, meaning you can use them without Divine assistance, but using them with Divine assistance will pay off. A majority of spells are also spontaneous, but need to be memorized. However, if you have a spell book, then it is possible to access additional spells without needing to memorize them, but they will need to be prepared in advance. The advantage to preparing a spell in advance versus casting it spontaneously is that you do not need to use the Verbal component and it will consume less energy, and you can in fact prepare spells you have already memorized, but advance preparation again requires a spellbook.

Cybernetics:
This is your Decker and Rigger stuff, as well as any Augmentations that you might have. Augmentations cost money rather than Build Points, though. You do not need to have Augs to use Cyberdecks, however, since you can always just grab a Neurohelmet!

Resonance:
This is your Technomancer stuff. It is often seen as being mutually exclusive from magic, but there is always the remote (one-in-a-googlolplex) probability somebody will gain these alongside magic abilities. Usually, people have to born with Resonance abilities, but sometimes they will manifest later on in their life. It may get merged with Psionics.

Psionics:
Once again, this is not magic. Like Resonance, usually you need to be born with Psionic abilities, though there is the possibility of gaining them later in your life. As far as the public knows, nobody has yet been able to prove (or disprove) that it is or is not the same thing as Resonance, so chances are that it will share an advancement tree. Psionics are often mistaken for magic.

There you have it, those are the advancement trees. There will still be classes, but they will be nothing more than starter templates so that you don't have to pick everything from scratch.

P.S.: Where in Desna's name is the [u]Underline[/u] function?!

Liberty's Edge

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Okay, I had another idea; since Metahumans all stemmed from, well, humans, then Half-Elf, Half-Dwarf, Half-Orc and Half-Troll should all be available templates, with both advantages and disadvantages, that could be applied at character creation to other races (with a few exceptions; you can't apply the Half-Elf template to an Elf or the Half-Orc template to an Orc, but you could apply Half-Orc to Elf and vice versa)

If you could also do this with races from PF, then it would be even crazier, like a controversial Half-Troll Kitsune (aka Trollsune)

Anyways, half-dwarf might reduce your size category whereas half-troll might increase it, so a Troll-Dwarf would be size Medium. The size categories would need to be adapted though.

Small: 2 to 4 feet
Medium: 4 to 6 feet
Large: 6 to 8 feet

The average dwarf would be around 4 feet tall, the average gnome around 2 feet, and the average troll around 8 feet. The Trollsune example would be about 7 feet, since most kitsune are only 4 to 5 feet tall.

Metaraces are fun!

- - - - -

Unrelated, found some neat thingamajigs:
Magic is no longer the be-all, end-all for non-technological weapon creation!

Potions and other Alchemical concoctions are no longer infinetely superior to standard medicine, since there is now the probability of EXPLODING.

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