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One of the reasons that multiclassing seems unappealing to so many people, based on my observations, is that quite a few classes give you identical abilities and bonus feats, like two different classes that give you "Martial Weapon Proficiency (All)", which means that sometimes when you decide to multiclass for whatever reason you end up crippling yourself by inhibiting your character's potential. I was thinking; why not implement a quick system where, whenever you multiclass, you can replace duplicate bonus feats with other bonus feats (within reason)? For instance, a Sorcerer who takes a level in Monk could replace the duplicate "Simple Weapon Proficiency" with "Combat Casting" or "Improved Initiative".
Just food for thought, I am curious as to what you all think about this.
P.S.: This is my first post on the message boards, please don't be too hard with the criticism.
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I think improved initiative or combat casting is a bit much in trade for simple weapon proficiency. Honestly, I think the complaints against multi-classing are not warranted. For one, most games dont go all the way to level 20, so there is too much value placed on cap stones. The loss of favored class bonus isnt a huge deal either and it also gives the half-elf a neat niche. Really its casters that take it in the nutz for multi-classing. Though with the addition of so many new classes and the hybrids I think you can get just about anything you want done.
Have you looked at the multi-classing options in PF;Unchang'd?
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I don't own a copy of Unchained, sadly. And obviously, it would take some fine-tuning, like giving different feats a "point cost" for the purposes of duplicate-substitution. Simple Weapon Proficiency would, at most, get you "Additional Traits" or "Catch Off Guard", whereas Martial or Exotic would get you Combat Casting or Two-Weapon something. Similar thing with multiple copies of other feats, like Medium/Heavy Armor.
I myself am a caster, so obviously multiclassing is out of the question for me, but I didn't really plan on multiclassing to begin with. Though the free Martial Weapon Proficiency with Fighter and the EIGHT skill points per level with Rogue are very tempting, and don't even get me started on the Mirror's Edge mobility that being a Monk gives you.
Contributor
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There are too many factors - including desired power level - to say what's right. I'll give it a try, though.
For the sorcerer/monk in your original example, they're not losing much in terms of class features - neither class cares about Simple Weapon Proficiency. The main loss is the opportunity cost of the sorcerer level that wasn't taken. (Ability score distribution is rough too, but let's assume they rolled well and have decent stats.)
Some options, listed in very rough order of potency:
-Giving a character with the Empyreal mutated bloodline nothing.
-Granting Sorcerous Strike as a bonus feat.
-Allowing certain class features to interact; for example, allowing a draconic sorcerer to treat her claws as monk weapons for flurrying and such, or allowing her to unarmed strike in place of the touch attack for such spells.
-Allowing the character to use her Charisma in place of Wisdom for her monk abilities.
The stats, the story, the game's power level, and more should be taken into account when making decisions like these. The more I know about these factors, the more closely tailored my options would be.
Does this make sense?
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Yeah, seems like it does.
One idea that I wanted to try for my own RPG was to replace a strict Class system with advancement trees and "starting packages", but I haven't found a way to implement it effectively. In case you are curious a it said RPG, you can message me privately about it, but I doubt it will ever get off the ground.
The way multiclassing works in games never seems to be consistent. In one game, it might be the best way to go, but in another it might just hold you back to the point that you are at level 10 but barely more capable than a level 3 character.
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Okay, so this morning I wanted to create a new character to experiment with multiclassing... and the person I was asking for advice instead gave me a roadmap to upgrade my existing character for Pathfinder Society. Here is the roadmap so far:
Level 1: Sorcerer (Achieved)
Level 2: Sorcerer (Achieved)
Level 3: Swashbuckler (One XP remaining)
Level 4: Sorcerer (Four XP remaining)
Level 5: Unarmed Fighter (Seven XP remaining)
Level 6: Ninja (Ten XP remaining)
Level 7: Sorcerer (Thirteen XP remaining)
Level 8: Bloodrager/Sorcerer (Sixteen XP remaining)
Level 9: Sorcerer (Nineteen XP remaining)
Level 10: Sorcerer (Twenty two XP remaining)
Level 11: Sorcerer (Twenty five XP remaining)
From what this guy told me, this kind of build would actually synergize quite well between the different classes, and he also wants me to look for weapons that have a high Crit range and that I can apply Weapon Finesse to.
So I guess the current multiclassing system, while not perfect, is still sufficient enough to get a good build if you know what you are aiming for and know what you're doing. I guess we'll keep working at it.
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For reference, when I type "Bloodrager/Sorcerer", it means that I am not yet sure which one I'll shoot for. Also, for Swashbuckler, I am not entirely sure whether I will do Swashbuckler as in the class, or Swashbuckler as in the Rogue archetype.
Bear in mind that cavalier (daring champion) is also an option, depending on what you're looking to gain.
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I am probably gonna keep grabbing spells. The build I wanted was a highspeed, get-in-and-get-out "Parkour Sorcerer"If you want to be fast, Barbarian/Bloodrager/Travel Domain Cleric/Inquisitor will all give you a +10 to speed, but that's probably not worth it.
I'm not sure what you intend to do with Ninja for only 1 level, nor what you intend to do with Unarmed Fighter. If you're attempting to be a sorcerer, 1d6 sneak attack, Improved Unarmed Strike, and a no-prereqs style feat are nice, but hardly necessary.
I am not the guy who did the math on this; the person who planned the roadmap for me is a self-proclaimed multiclassing expert (having experimented with MANY multiclassing builds), and is also a very experienced GM. When I brought up my desire to multiclass but also my reluctance because I'd be gimping myself, he brought up that most PFS characters don't make it past level 11. He also asked me what kind of build that I wanted, so when I said "a Sorcerer who quickly darts around the battlefield, dodging attacks and using melee combat as a backup when spells are no longer an option", he went ahead and explained the roadmap to me; Improved Unarmed Strike is a requirement for Sorcerous Strike.
Yes, this thing. Though I suppose it might be slightly abusable (level 10 in 20 classes). But it's like the Oracle curse scaling, and Oracle curse scaling is a very good thing.One simple option I have not experimented with but found interesting [for dual-classed characters, not necessarily dippers since it wasn't created with those in mind, though it might work out just fine] is increasing a character's 'effective level' for the purpose of all class abilities by 1/2 the number of levels he has in other classes. [BAB and Saves and Skills are calculated normally, although I would recommend Fractional BAB so things like Monk/Rogue don't get screwed]
A Ranger 10 Paladin 10 would have all the class features of a level 15 Paladin and level 15 Ranger.
Indeed the dude who wrote it where I read it intended it for dual-classing.
That being said though, level 9 class features [19/2=8.5 round down to +8 added to the single level] really aren't that good at level 20. It might not be broken at all [barring Archetypes that might stack with the base class that gave the ability, like Barbarian+Viking for good Rage Powers] just crazy flexible with lots of options and none of them terribly powerful.
Mind = Blown
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So, I am still one session away from actually making it happen, but I decided to fire up Hero Lab and make my Level 3 Sorcerer/Swashbuckler counterpart in advance, and wow, he is REALLY powerful in comparison to my Level 2 Straight-Sorcerer character. I will have to post Before/After screenshots of my Hero Lab sheet.
Oh, if you check out my Shadowrun-to-Pathfinder conversion thread, then you will see a post that I just made regarding Advancement Trees. Ignore Cybernetics and Resonance, since they do not apply to PF.