Shotel Show-and-Tell!


Advice

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

How do shotel swords work? I've seen some images (like this one) that depict it with the tip facing forward like an oversized sickle, and others (like this one) that show it with the tip facing the wielder, like a scimitar with a very pronounced curve or a smoothed out khopesh. Which is more accurate?


Shotels are designed very similar to sickles. The cutting edge is on the inside of the curve, not the outside (at least historically by my understanding). So, basically the first picture is correct.


Neither one of those weapons are shotels.

Shotels are double edged, but not used for slashing for the most part. They are piercing weapons--the massive curve was designed to stab around shields. You'd mostly hold it with the inside of the curve facing you, so you could stab forward at an angle to jab someone in the kidneys around their shield arm.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
mplindustries wrote:
Neither one of those weapons are shotels.

What are they, then? They both came up when googling the weapon (so did the picture you linked, but I was specifically looking for how they're held and used in battle rather than just lying on a sheet).

Quote:
Shotels are double edged, but not used for slashing for the most part. They are piercing weapons--the massive curve was designed to stab around shields. You'd mostly hold it with the inside of the curve facing you, so you could stab forward at an angle to jab someone in the kidneys around their shield arm.

Vivid description! So by inside curve do you mean the guy in the first pic is holding it wrong?


Archpaladin Zousha wrote:
What are they, then?

They look more like Khopeshes to me, personally.

Archpaladin Zousha wrote:
Vivid description! So by inside curve do you mean the guy in the first pic is holding it wrong?

I mean that neither guy is holding it right because while the inside curve would face you, you'd mostly be holding it sideways. Like, do you know the way people who don't know how guns work hold pistols sideways because they think it looks cool? That's what I mean. The flat of the blade would be parallel to the ground, not perpendicular.

This is hard to describe. Ok, take your right fist and stick your thumb up. Then, turn your hand so that your thumb is pointing to your left. Picture a guy standing in front of you and try to swing your arm so that your thumb jams them in the ribs or the side of the head. That's the motion you're using to stab someone with a shotel. You can't really swing it like a normal sword--it doesn't thrust, it doesn't slash, it doesn't hack--you kind of have to hook it. It's actually really only good for hooking, which is normally very awkward. But if someone has a shield, it's just about the ideal move--their shield is almost useless against such a move.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Oh, I get it now! Thanks! :)

So...if I was just posing with it I can hold it however I want, but if I fight with it I wanna stab sideways with it? Would that be accurate?

On a slightly related note, if I were building a character using this weapon, I'd probably want to focus on DEX, it sounds like you gotta be precise and agile if you wanna be effective with it, rather than hacking or stabbing with brute strength?


Archpaladin Zousha wrote:

Oh, I get it now! Thanks! :)

So...if I was just posing with it I can hold it however I want, but if I fight with it I wanna stab sideways with it? Would that be accurate?

Yeah, generally. It's like a hooking motion.

A long time, I watched a video online of a shotel duel (not to the death or anything, I guess it was more like fencing or a demonstration), and it was pretty bizarre. These guys were jumping and rolling around trying to get the proper angle to hook around the other guy's shield without leaving his own side exposed to a hook-stab. But this game Dark Souls apparently has a Shotel in it and so the only videos I can find for dozens of youtube pages are of this game I never heard of before.

Archpaladin Zousha wrote:
On a slightly related note, if I were building a character using this weapon, I'd probably want to focus on DEX, it sounds like you gotta be precise and agile if you wanna be effective with it, rather than hacking or stabbing with brute strength?

You'd think that, but the Shotel in Pathfinder is not finesseable unless you're a Swashbuckler (but even then, you can't get Dex to damage), so, unfortunately, you need Strength. Honestly, it's a terrible weapon, mechanically. Unless you're going to be fighting people with shields almost exclusively, it's not worth the exotic proficiency required to wield it (and even then, it's iffy). It's a d8, x3 piercing one-hander with the utterly useless Performance quality (seriously, does anyone ever use this?) and a +1 to hit against shields. Lame.

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