Hypothetical: So I have a character that has a 0 misfire value (reliable culverin) that has rolled a NAT 1. It doesn't misfire since it has no misfire value, but does it still fumble, automiss, or calculate the attack against enemies AC as normal for a gun? Surprisingly couldn't find anything when I searched "misfire 0 fumble or hit". Personally I think it would still just miss as almost all of the fumble cards don't make sense for guns (except for one where you just throw your gun at them), but being able to resolve the attack normally would still be nice.
Misfire is unrelated to a natural 1 being always a miss. I'm unfamiliar with the fumble deck optional rules, but they would also be unrelated to misfires and I would expect that dealing with guns would be quite similar to dealing with bows in that system.
We know it doesn't misfire on a one with the hypothetical weapon, and we also know that assuming there was a misfire chance, you wouldn't fumble as well as misfire on a 1, and since fumble is a specific term that means misfire either replaces or overrides fumbles. My question is which.
Fumble is a houserule as far as i know. If it is just the not hitting on a nat 1 you talk about then it is still in effect.
Fumble is a houserule as far as i know. If it is just the not hitting on a nat 1 you talk about then it is still in effect.
Fumble is another name for Natural 1, hence crit and fumble, the fumble deck is a separate thing that "makes the game more dynamic" but is otherwise unrelated to the question since if you can fumble you can draw from the fumble deck if its in play. You don't fumble when you misfire on a 1, you just misfire which leads to the question of can you fumble when there is no misfire.
So a misfire value of Zero means that no misire happens. Is there anything written that this has any other effect? Because if it isnt specifically written down that thing A influences thing B - it doesnt.
So for here a natural 1 would be an automiss, if nowhere it is written that an effect removes the general automiss rules - it doesnt.
Also most fumble optional rules are also based on having rolled a natural 1 or not. If you did its fumble time. But as this is a strictly optional rules you have to look there if and how it interacts with reliable firearms.
So then misfire overrides fumble, and when its not there, natural 1/fumble takes back over. Thanks
Also casters are subject to the deck whenever they are making a touch/concentration check. Plus, their cards aren't always good or always bad so its a little more balanced by randomness than it is for melee and ranged characters.
You still miss when you missfire on a natural 1 so there is no Real issue.
Having played under "fumble decks" a few times let me just say, DONT DO IT.
This. SO MUCH this.
Critical hits are fine, so long as they're PC (and *maybe* the occasional non-monster boss) only. If opponents can get special effects from their critical hits, it's disproportionately hard on the party, simply because there are so many opponents and only about 4 party members. Statistically, the party will be receiving FAR more crits than they can possibly dish out.
Crit fumbles are bad because the more attacks you make, the more often you have a chance of the fumble. The chance per swing doesn't go down as you gain levels, but the number of times you have to roll that chance does, and dramatically so. It's not worth it, and having played in a game that used these, I would absolutely not do it again - to the point of leaving the group.
Fumble is another name for Natural 1
No, it's not. If you roll a natural 1, you just simply miss that attack, even if the roll otherwise is equal or higher than the target's AC. There's no additional effect unless you're either using house rules, or something else overrides the "just miss". In the case of misfires, those happen (if you roll in the misfire range for your particular firearm) in addition to the natural 1 = miss, not instead of it.
I am fine with a natural 1 being a miss. i am fine (sort of) with misfire chance. Having played under "fumble decks" a few times let me just say, DONT DO IT.
The fumble effects on the fumble deck are really stupid, too. We tried the deck for one session, and it turned the game into a brutal Loony Toons episode. Even when the enemy fumbled, it was bad for us. An enemy fumbled, but the card said his attack automatically hits me anyway.
Fumble is another name for Natural 1No, it's not. If you roll a natural 1, you just simply miss that attack, even if the roll otherwise is equal or higher than the target's AC. There's no additional effect unless you're either using house rules, or something else overrides the "just miss". In the case of misfires, those happen (if you roll in the misfire range for your particular firearm) in addition to the natural 1 = miss, not instead of it.
I was saying that fumble means the same thing as a nat 1, just a guaranteed miss, basically just a street name for nat 1. When you fumble you auto-miss and something else happens if the deck is in play, but if it isn't you would still call it a fumble.
We actually use the crit/fumble decks for all our games. It has mitigated somewhat the amount of "rocket tag" the GM has to worry about and gotten the game away from maximizing damage numbers. It actually made the game more interesting.
The way the deck works, the natural 1 means you reroll the attack. If you miss with that roll as well, then you fumble.
A natural 1 is a miss, as well as a possible misfire depending on the weapon stats. As mentioned above, misfire has no interaction with a miss or fumble. It is just another possible detrimental effect for rolling low on the die for using a particular weapon. Just another stat to check against when you roll.
Rolling a natural 1 and missing the follow up attack is only then a fumble.*
*Assuming your DM is not using the optional rules.
And the optional Wound rules from Unchained. No fear.
Those aren't really that punishing, they give you a -1, make the toughness feat even better, and can be easily negated by harming the opponent. (not to mention you should be healing between battles anyway.)