Master of the Fallen Fortress, Tier 1 or Tier 1-2?


Pathfinder Society

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Silver Crusade

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
Just run it at 1st level only until it gets clarified further.

Yep. That's my plan. But I was just wondering if it had been clarified further somewhere that I had not seen.

Sczarni 5/5 ⦵⦵

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I was told at GenCon (by a then-current member of Campaign Leadership) that Master of the Fallen Fortress is for level 1 PCs only.

Edit: Ooooo! That looks pretty.

Silver Crusade

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Nefreet wrote:

I was told at GenCon (by a then-current member of Campaign Leadership) that Master of the Fallen Fortress is for level 1 PCs only.

Edit: Ooooo! That looks pretty.

Thanks Nefreet!

And congratulations!

Grand Lodge 5/5 ⦵⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Online—PbP aka Hmm

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Did my favorite tengu just get his 5th GM star?

Sczarni 5/5 ⦵⦵

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

*is blushing underneath his feathers*

5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Sweet, Nefreet! Thanks for running so much PFS.

Silver Crusade

Do you get 1 gm table credit for running this or 2, since it's listed under the modules section when you report running this?

5/5

poundpuppy30 wrote:
Do you get 1 gm table credit for running this or 2, since it's listed under the modules section when you report running this?

It's been 2, unless they changed it. Same with We Be Goblins.

Grand Lodge 5/5 ⦵⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Online—PbP aka Hmm

2 tables!

Huzzah!

Really, I should run this module sometime. I'm so close to that second star...

Hmm

Silver Crusade

It's weird that they list it as a module and give 2 table credits yet you can only play this with a level 1 character only?

Shadow Lodge 5/5

Why is that weird?

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I believe this one will be officially a 1-2 just like all the other evergreens.

Silver Crusade

So far no one has officially said it's a tier 1-2, since the chronicle says tier 1 and not tier 1-2 right?

Sovereign Court 4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

In general I go with what the Chronicle sheet says; that's the only way to make sense of newer things like True Dragons or Serpents Rise.

3/5 Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro aka MadScientistWorking

Andrew Christian wrote:
I believe this one will be officially a 1-2 just like all the other evergreens.

Ehhh... Just let it be with the other two evergreen scenarios that will never become a tier 1-2. At least those two scenarios emphatically state level 1 only and have completely different chronicle sheets for reasons.

5/5

Well, I'd just come to the conclusion that this was still an open question, but language in the new Guide actually clears it up. As an evergreen, whether Tier 1 or 1-2, it can be played/run once for 2nd level.

Guide 8.0, page 18, Evergreens wrote:
All Tier 1 and 1-2 adventures can be replayed an unlimited number of times with a 1st-level character for credit. The Tier 1 and 1–2 adventures can also be played with a 2nd-level character once for credit in each campaign mode (Core and Standard Modes). GMs receive another Chronicle sheet each time they run one of the Tier 1 and Tier 1-2 adventures, but can only apply a Chronicle sheet to one 2nd-level character per adventure per campaign mode.

Silver Crusade

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It never ceases to baffle me as to why anyone would want to run level 2 characters through this thing. It's an mild challenge at best for 4 1st level characters (although there's one encounter that can be a bit tough...'nuf said on that).

It was written for 4 1st level characters and the chronicle sheet only delineates Tier 1. I'm not sure it could be any clearer.

Forcing the allowance of 2nd level characters to play this module is ridiculous.

Sovereign Court 5/5

Prethen wrote:

It never ceases to baffle me as to why anyone would want to run level 2 characters through this thing. It's an mild challenge at best for 4 1st level characters (although there's one encounter that can be a bit tough...'nuf said on that).

It was written for 4 1st level characters and the chronicle sheet only delineates Tier 1. I'm not sure it could be any clearer.

Forcing the allowance of 2nd level characters to play this module is ridiculous.

Realizing that some 2nd level PCs have died in this...

4/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I just want this to have a seconday success condition so players can get 2 PP :) Suggestions include "Don't knock down the building" and "Save the Pathfinder."

3/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Majuba wrote:

Well, I'd just come to the conclusion that this was still an open question, but language in the new Guide actually clears it up. As an evergreen, whether Tier 1 or 1-2, it can be played/run once for 2nd level.

Guide 8.0, page 18, Evergreens wrote:
All Tier 1 and 1-2 adventures can be replayed an unlimited number of times with a 1st-level character for credit. The Tier 1 and 1–2 adventures can also be played with a 2nd-level character once for credit in each campaign mode (Core and Standard Modes). GMs receive another Chronicle sheet each time they run one of the Tier 1 and Tier 1-2 adventures, but can only apply a Chronicle sheet to one 2nd-level character per adventure per campaign mode.

So glad this is finally resolved.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Canada—Manitoba—Brandon aka kevin_video

3 people marked this as a favorite.
RealAlchemy wrote:
I just want this to have a seconday success condition so players can get 2 PP :) Suggestions include "Don't knock down the building" and "Save the Pathfinder."

I'd like that too. Even if it's something as specific as "only on Free Games Day" like others have had, that's fine. Limiting, but it gives you another option.

I know that people who've ran this multiple times can do the whole thing in about 30-60 minutes, but when we first did it, it was six hours. Everyone felt rather depressed/defeated that two characters had died and all they got was 1 PP because it's a "short" module.

Scarab Sages 4/5

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It's stories like kevin_video's that make me wonder at people who call it a cakewalk. It's six (I think) combats, plus possible falling damage. There's not a ton of healing provided in the module, from what I remember. Playing it with a party (especially a 4-player party) of brand new characters, without a wand or a Cleric among them, can be difficult.

Mainly, though, wanting a level 2 character to play has very little to do with the difficulty of the scenario (to me, anyway). It's more about flexibility in scheduling a game and consistency of rules.

Having an extra game you can play with a level 2 character means someone who shows up without a new character built, and who doesn't want to play a pregen, can still participate (once, like any other scenario/module).

Having a consistent rule means all Evergreens work the same, instead of all of the confusion that existed before.

5/5

Yeah, it does improve flexibility in scheduling, but often at the cost of one PC dominating the group. Sometimes dying heorically is better than watching someone else's 2nd-level barbarian win every fight before you can act.

Either way, at least it's settled.

Silver Crusade

Out of curiosity, is a GM allowed to make the table Tier 1 only, or do they have to accept Level 2 characters?

5/5

Hey Lamplighter, you got your fifth star! Congrats!

I think they've settled strongly on the Free RPG day scenarios giving 1 PP. Lines up with "less prestige for modiles" and avoiding the extreme overuse of evergreens vs running scenarios at L1. Otherwise, why write them for1-5, just make them 2-5.

The Exchange

Pretty sure you can either let the lvl 2 play or not run the table...

Scarab Sages 4/5

Prethen wrote:
Out of curiosity, is a GM allowed to make the table Tier 1 only, or do they have to accept Level 2 characters?

I would think that would be something that would fall to the event organizer. For example, I don't think there's anything wrong with an event organizer saying a table will be high tier only or whatever, so I don't think there's an issue saying level 1s only for this. If you're a GM at an event and you want a level 1 only table, I'd just make sure you and your event organizer are on the same page, so they don't try to move a level 2 to your table.

If you are the event organizer, or it's a single game online or something, go for it. I'd just make sure to make that clear when you advertise the game.

Sczarni 5/5 ⦵⦵

Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Ferious Thune wrote:
Having a consistent rule means all Evergreens work the same, instead of all of the confusion that existed before.

Many believed we had a consistent rule already: that you could only play an in-tier character.

It was simple, immediately visible, and easy to understand.

The only positive to this decision is that it's in writing.

Guess I'll start organizing a bunch of these to level my 2s to 3s.

The Exchange 5/5

Nefreet wrote:
Ferious Thune wrote:
Having a consistent rule means all Evergreens work the same, instead of all of the confusion that existed before.

Many believed we had a consistent rule already: that you could only play an in-tier character.

It was simple, immediately visible, and easy to understand.

The only positive to this decision is that it's in writing.

Guess I'll start organizing a bunch of these to level my 2s to 3s.

"...I'll start organizing a bunch of these to level my 2s to 3s."

&
"... played with a 2nd-level character once for credit in each campaign mode (Core and Standard Modes)."

How are you going to apply this to "a bunch" if it is applied to only one PC per campaign?

The Exchange 5/5

Prethen wrote:
Out of curiosity, is a GM allowed to make the table Tier 1 only, or do they have to accept Level 2 characters?

well... in a Tier 1-5 game, is a Judge allowed to make the table Sub-Tier 1-2 only, or do they have to accept Level 4 or 5 characters?

Sczarni 5/5 ⦵⦵

Starfinder Charter Superscriber
nosig wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
Guess I'll start organizing a bunch of these to level my 2s to 3s.
How are you going to apply this to "a bunch" if it is applied to only one PC per campaign?

I count 8 potential PCs:

GM and play MotFF in Standard.
GM and play First Steps in Standard.
GM and play MotFF in CORE.
GM and play First Steps in CORE.

5/5

To clarify, Nefreet has many characters at 2.2, not 2.0.

Sczarni 5/5 ⦵⦵

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Indeed. My typical path for new PCs is two Evergreens and a 3xp Module. Although I currently only have two characters at 2.2xp, I have several level 1s, and it's easy enough to get them to 2.2 quickly.

The Exchange 5/5

Nefreet wrote:
nosig wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
Guess I'll start organizing a bunch of these to level my 2s to 3s.
How are you going to apply this to "a bunch" if it is applied to only one PC per campaign?

I count 8 potential PCs:

GM and play MotFF in Standard.
GM and play First Steps in Standard.
GM and play MotFF in CORE.
GM and play First Steps in CORE.

and this would be 4 PCs at level 2.2. So I repeat, how is this "... organizing a bunch of these to level my 2s to 3s"?

You could just as easily say, "I'm organizing a bunch of Thornkeep #1s to level my 2s to 3s". and actually that would be closer as it would only be 1 Mod (not 2) and would actually get two PCs (one Core and one Standard) from 2nd level to 3rd.

"GM and play MotFF in Standard." - sounds great to me, means we have one more Intro game being run.

"GM and play First Steps in CORE." - ditto...

so two extra games scheduled/run. I like more intro games run. :-)

Sczarni 5/5 ⦵⦵

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Starfinder Charter Superscriber
nosig wrote:
You could just as easily say, "I'm organizing a bunch of Thornkeep #1s to level my 2s to 3s".

That was already done a very long time ago.

Funny story time:
One day I went to print Thornkeep #1 Chronicles at the campus library, and the printer just kept spitting them out. By the time we pulled the plug it'd printed something like 80 Chronicles. So for the next couple months we ran regular weekly sessions of Thornkeep.

Lots of people in my area have Thornkeep as their first session ^_^

5/5

Majuba wrote:
Hey Lamplighter, you got your fifth star! Congrats!

Thanks, Majuba - yeah, my rates went way down when kid #2 was born, but I got there.

5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

As for subtiers - We often post games as being a particular subtier, and encourage players to adhere to that. Sometimes it's at the request of players to play certain characters; other times it's to ensure there is a subtier 1-2 game running during a particular slot. We try to avoid out-of-tier PCs like the plague - while it's legal, a level 1 in a 4-5 or a level 5 in a 1-2 changes things too much.

At cons, we take what we are given, though, and mixed tier is much more common. It's a matter of whether game experience can be placed above "gotta play in this slot" or not.

5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
GM Lamplighter wrote:
Majuba wrote:
Hey Lamplighter, you got your fifth star! Congrats!
Thanks, Majuba - yeah, my rates went way down when kid #2 was born.

I thimk we hit four about the same time, I remember Identifying with you a bit :). Just four specials from mine now, 3+ years later. [/off-topic]

The Exchange 5/5

Nefreet wrote:
nosig wrote:
You could just as easily say, "I'm organizing a bunch of Thornkeep #1s to level my 2s to 3s".

That was already done a very long time ago.

** spoiler omitted **

But...

how many of your level 2s did you run in Thornkeep #1? You can't run more than one right? (ok, one "Played" and one Judge credit, per Campaign, so 4 total)...

Sczarni 5/5 ⦵⦵

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

5, actually.

Towards the end of Season 6 I had a replay that was going to be unused, so I burned a Star to get a character to level 3.

Almost every Tier 1-2 Module I've received credit for on a level 2 character.

Less so with CORE, but I've still done it a handful of times.

Sczarni 5/5 ⦵⦵

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I'm a strong advocate of playing Evergreen material until you can't.

It prolongs your PFS experience.

Many older players I know wasted time playing their level 1s through Tier 1-5 and 1-7 scenarios.

I always try to play the highest Tier possible, and while they've played through virtually every scenario, I still have many left to do.

Shadow Lodge 5/5

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Nefreet wrote:

I'm a strong advocate of playing Evergreen material until you can't.

It prolongs your PFS experience.

Only in the "in a coma on life support" sense.

The Exchange 5/5 Venture-Agent, Kentucky—Lexington

Nefreet wrote:
Many older players I know wasted time playing their level 1s through Tier 1-5 and 1-7 scenarios.

I'm one that can literally only play for credit Tier 1-5 scenarios that are released recently. I've played all Season 6 to Season 0 level 1-5 stuff. Sad times.

Sczarni 5/5 ⦵⦵

Starfinder Charter Superscriber
TOZ wrote:
Nefreet wrote:

I'm a strong advocate of playing Evergreen material until you can't.

It prolongs your PFS experience.

Only in the "in a coma on life support" sense.

At least when my characters wake up from that coma they're 3rd level.

It also means I have more characters that have earned the higher tier rewards.

Shadow Lodge 5/5

I don't see the relevance of that fact.

Sczarni 5/5 ⦵⦵

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I like to get "the whole story" when I play a scenario (or any adventure, really).

The best experiences, IMO, are when you make all the Knowledge Checks, discover all the secrets, encounter all the enemies, understand what's going on, and find all the stuffs.

That doesn't happen when you play low tier.

5/5

GM Lamplighter wrote:
Yeah, it does improve flexibility in scheduling, but often at the cost of one PC dominating the group. Sometimes dying heorically is better than watching someone else's 2nd-level barbarian win every fight before you can act.

How is that any different from someone's first level barbarian ending every fight before you can act? It's not as if an extra point of BaB is really making all that much difference to someone swinging for 2d6+6-8 before they start raging.

Community & Digital Content Director

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Removed a personally abusive post and response. Keep it civil, folks.

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