Stacking Inspire courage and a masterpiece


Advice


Hey all,

Looking for some advice on how to stack my Bard's inspire courage with a masterpiece. I know that it is somewhat ambiguous as to whether masterpieces will stop another performance when you start them. However both James Jacobs most recent retcon of his opinion and my local GMs agree that a masterpiece would stop any other performance (ie they are exactly like additional performances). Until they officially FAQ this interaction I am stuck using this ruling.

So, if that is the case, what is the quickest / easiest way to maintain two performances at the same time?

The earliest I have found is at lvl 10 when you can grab Virtuoso Performance.


Yeah, unfortunately, with the ridiculous nerf/retcon, Virtuoso Performance is the first opportunity available. Shadowbard at 13th is even better, but yeah, there's nothing at lower levels.

Apparently, they decided nobody should ever use Masterpieces in combat because none of them are even remotely as strong as Inspire Courage. I guess you can still get use from some utility effects, like Pageant of the Peacock (which is beyond insane and should be banned--I say this as one who used it for several levels before I felt too bad about how insanely powerful it was), Triple Time, or Legato Piece on the Infernal Bargain for planar allies.


My original goal was to use Battle Song of the People's Revolt to share a teamwork feat with my allies.

However, I am now thinking that because it is such a pain to stack 2 performances that I will probably grab a level of cavalier for tactician and then maybe go battle herald.

So it would be Bard 7/Cav 1/Battle herald X.
Battle herald would give me some extra inspire commands that I could intermingle with inspire courage while it is using lingering performance. It would also continue to extend my inspire courage bonus and get me additional tactician uses. The big downside is only have lvl 3 spells.


So I just noticed something which basically sticks a knife in using battle song of the people revolt for teamwork feats.

Why spend a 4th lvl spell and double performance rounds for rnd/lvl use of a teamwork feat when you can just use coordinated effort, a 3rd lvl spell with 1min/lvl duration?

They really need to fix the masterpiece mechanics.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Masterpieces are not worth the time and effort beside fluff reasons.

Grand Lodge

Coordinate applies one feat you own to one creature per 3 levels, no more than 30 feat apart, and they only get the feat when you are with them.

Battle song gives every ally within 30 feat the teamwork feat, including you, even if you don't have the feat to start with. So you spend 4000 gp (level 2 page of spell knowledge) to effectively get an extra teamwork feat for performance rounds per day.

Also, you don't have to be part of the group for them to get the benefit of the teamwork feat.


FLite wrote:

Coordinate applies one feat you own to one creature per 3 levels, no more than 30 feat apart, and they only get the feat when you are with them.

Battle song gives every ally within 30 feat the teamwork feat, including you, even if you don't have the feat to start with. So you spend 4000 gp (level 2 page of spell knowledge) to effectively get an extra teamwork feat for performance rounds per day.

Also, you don't have to be part of the group for them to get the benefit of the teamwork feat.

Except that you are now dropping inspire courage(very little is worth dropping this for).....unless you also cast a lvl 4 spell, Virtuoso Performance, in order to keep up 2 performances at the same time for 1rnd/lvl and an extra 2 performance rounds per rnd.

EDIT: Battle Song of the People's Revolt also only gives you access to feats that you would qualify for. So if you want teamwork feats like coordinated charge you will have to take some feats anyway.


Eltacolibre wrote:

Masterpieces are not worth the time and effort beside fluff reasons.

A few are worth it.

Triple Time is a great replacement for a lvl 1 spell. Everyone gets +10 movement for an hour for the meager cost of a performance round.

Symphony of the Elysian Heart is worth all the masterpiece BS when you can do it. No one else can pull off mass freedom of movement. Complete game changer and worth whatever spells/rounds you have to use. I will gladly loose a lvl 3 spell forever and have to cast a lvl 4/5 spell to do this.


Dance of the 23 steps is decent if you find yourself being focused down in a fight, but otherwise I agree.

Grand Lodge

Lab_Rat wrote:
FLite wrote:

Coordinate applies one feat you own to one creature per 3 levels, no more than 30 feat apart, and they only get the feat when you are with them.

Battle song gives every ally within 30 feat the teamwork feat, including you, even if you don't have the feat to start with. So you spend 4000 gp (level 2 page of spell knowledge) to effectively get an extra teamwork feat for performance rounds per day.

Also, you don't have to be part of the group for them to get the benefit of the teamwork feat.

Except that you are now dropping inspire courage(very little is worth dropping this for).....unless you also cast a lvl 4 spell, Virtuoso Performance, in order to keep up 2 performances at the same time for 1rnd/lvl and an extra 2 performance rounds per rnd.

EDIT: Battle Song of the People's Revolt also only gives you access to feats that you would qualify for. So if you want teamwork feats like coordinated charge you will have to take some feats anyway.

Unless you have two bards. I feel like this is a sub optimal choice for a small adventuring party. But a great choice for an army regiment. (Which is supposedly what it is intended for.)


I've used Pageant of the Peacock (agree absolutely overpowered and should be banned), Triple Time (really popular with the party) and Dance of Unkindled Desires and they are useful and I'm saddened to read they've been nerfed (most were fairly minor extensions of bardic casting if we're being honest).

Seems like an experiment in the direction bardic magic could go.

Grand Lodge

Pagent of the peacock really doesn't need to be banned. It just needs to either be treated as you only appear to know the information, or use the strict reading, that you get to use bluff for *a* (singular) intelligence check per performance.

The other two are pretty much unaffected by ruling that these are bardic performances.

triple time is use for one minute, grants it's benefit for an hour. Doesn't say you have to go on performing.

Desires is unlikely to be used along with other performances.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Stacking Inspire courage and a masterpiece All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.