Improving the chat boards and avoiding the repetition of the same threads over and over again.


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I don't really know the answers to these questions, which is why I posted this under General Discussion; where it belongs, because I would like to have a better way to discuss the game itself without the same topics drowning out the infinite interesting subjects available.

This is not a whole website issue, rather it is specific to discussion of the game itself. Perhaps my proposed solutions aren't ideal, but the responses here have, for the most part, not been all that useful in terms of facilitating a better community with less constantly repetitive discussions.

Two things people are just flat wrong about: 1) The frequency of these debates is in NO way indicative of the import of these debates to most people, it's just the ones we see the most because certain people like to tilt against windmills; 2) simply removing posts I personally am not interested in is a futile exercise as the conversations and threads continue to be dominated by the same topics; at the very least subforums related to certain issues would definitely help solve this problem.

I know some people think this thread has come up before; perhaps it has, but maybe 1% of the times the repeated debates I am referring to have. I consider it a real problem with the community for discussing PF RPG and would love a discussion in this community about how to fix it either through website design or other UI changes. To be clear this is specific to PF RPG discussions, not the functioning of the website itself. I'd be happy to hear some non-website suggestion to alleviate this issue.

Maybe people like this repetitive argument nonsense, and maybe these forums just aren't for me. But it's sad because I love the community and interesting discussions that occur outside the white noise of the: Pathfinder 2.0; martial/caster disparity; and rogues suck debates and wish we could find a way to improve that.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Create Mr. Pitt wrote:


Two things people are just flat wrong about: 1) The frequency of these debates is in NO way indicative of the import of these debates to most people, it's just the ones we see the most because certain people like to tilt against windmills; 2) simply removing posts I personally am not interested in is a futile exercise as the conversations and threads continue to be dominated by the same topics; at the very least subforums related to certain issues would definitely help solve this problem.

I think the thing to be clear on is 1 and 2 are YOUR perspective on things.

1) Some people think that they ARE "indicative of the import of these debates". Is your perspective more important than theirs?

2) Some people regularly use the hide feature to, shockingly, hide threads they don't like. This works for them and for me. Are we doing it wrong that we don't run into the same 'problems' you claim to have?

Subforums for topics YOU don't like is pretty selfish IMO. I'm don't ask for special treatment to only see threads I'm interested in why do you thing you are special enough to deserve it?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Tilting at windmills would probably be less popular if anyone knew how the mounted combat rules worked.


I've explained this a lot, but I will give it one more go. This is nothing to do with me being special. I would love if all topics, including the ones I am interested in were in subforum, as they would be vastly easier to find.

Sure, you can hide topics but it doesn't solve the general problem (not because I think I am super special). I just want a system where the noise of new threads about the same topics popping up doesn't distract not just me, but the entire forum about more interesting ideas and novel debates.

The frequency of these issues appearing on the forum is subject to a number of biases and is not remotely indicative of their importance. A minority appear could be, and probably are the most vocal on these subjects. People who are happy with the status quo do not make nine posts a week about how they are happy with the way things are. Finally passion about a topic will not change that these are the same debates rehashed over and over again with little novelty and no hope of creating change as they have been argued about ad nauseam without creating change.

I have no horse in many of these debates, I just want to find a way for the Pathfinder RPG forum to promote and highlight discussions on new or interesting issues. Not the same old songs that a few people love.


wraithstrike wrote:
The only necros that annoy me is when someone responds directly to a poster as if they posted yesterday. However using that thread to talk about the topic is ok for me. I still wouldn't flame you for a direct comment, but I would ask why you did it.

Yeah, the only time necro-posting really bugs me is when it's something like the necro-er being annoyed that nobody in the two year old thread is discussing something that came out in a book three months ago. Which i have seen a few times.


Create Mr. Pitt: The solution stares you in the face though. You make the subforum you want by hiding the threads you don't want. Simple. Easy. Already possible. You see a thread you don't like; poof, it's gone. problem solved.

You're perspective is that there is a problem. From my perspective, the problem you seeing threads you don't like. That's already fixable.

On "new or interesting issues", if they ARE actually that, they see people coming in and posting. That's the way things work. People post and it gets bumped up. If you find a thread holds no interest, make it vanish. THAT'S the way to get what you want. Every time someone suggests something like you are after, just let them know they can make the problem go away with a simple click. If they get rid of topics they aren't interested in, what's left but one's they find "new or interesting"?

And to be blunt, people tilting against windmills has worked in the past. FAQ's have been added/changed. Classes updated. So 1/2 your points are rendered irrelevant. It may take YEARS, but some of those windmills go down. You or I aren't going to be the ones to be the last word on a topics import: That ends up being the dev's and sometimes they listened to topics you find annoying and repeated.

Grand Lodge

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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I dislike both ideas in the OP.

Nested conversations are terrible, IMO. I prefer threads show posts in chronological order, as they do now.

Paizo uses custom forum software they developed in-house thats hevil tied to their store software. Changing the entire forum would be a huge undertaking. Even changing it for one subforum is even less likely.

Paizo has said before that they had no interest in an up-/down-vote system. Just getting them to add "likes" took years of lobbying by many people. It's a bad idea to provide any discussion system that can be gamed to a bunch of gamers.

The less like Reddit this place is, the better off everyone is. I think both these are DOA.

-Skeld


Chengar Qordath wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
The only necros that annoy me is when someone responds directly to a poster as if they posted yesterday. However using that thread to talk about the topic is ok for me. I still wouldn't flame you for a direct comment, but I would ask why you did it.
Yeah, the only time necro-posting really bugs me is when it's something like the necro-er being annoyed that nobody in the two year old thread is discussing something that came out in a book three months ago. Which i have seen a few times.

lack of clairvoyant ability is no excuse lol


My main recommendation is the following...

If there is a topic that you don't like... Click to ignore it.

I find the "Martials Needs Nice Things" threads to be annoying, and pretty much it is the same 5-7 people every time. Now? I don't consider them legitimate complaints so I just click to ignore. That gets rid of a lot of the repetition.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Maps Subscriber
Create Mr. Pitt wrote:

Two things people are just flat wrong about: 1) The frequency of these debates is in NO way indicative of the import of these debates to most people, it's just the ones we see the most because certain people like to tilt against windmills; 2) simply removing posts I personally am not interested in is a futile exercise as the conversations and threads continue to be dominated by the same topics; at the very least subforums related to certain issues would definitely help solve this problem.

I know some people think this thread has come up before; perhaps it has, but maybe 1% of the times the repeated debates I am referring to have. I consider it a real problem with the community for discussing PF RPG and would love a discussion in this community about how to fix it either through website design or other UI changes. To be clear this is specific to PF RPG discussions, not the functioning of the website itself. I'd be happy to hear some non-website suggestion to alleviate this issue.

Maybe people like this repetitive argument nonsense, and maybe these forums just aren't for me. But it's sad because I love the community and interesting discussions that occur outside the white noise of the: Pathfinder 2.0; martial/caster disparity; and rogues suck debates and wish we could find a way to improve that.

Granted I dont really enjoy the rules forum anymore and rarely browse it, so I would rate my opinions/preferences as less important than your. However, from my perspective, your characterisation is not quite correct.

I dont think it is a minority of posters revisiting the same topics over-and-over: in my opinion, the revisited threads do include the same old suspects, but also a healthy number of new people - for whom this discussion is their first time around. The "Pathfinder 2.0" threads, for example are rarely started by people with long posting histories, even if those of us who have been here a while soon join in.

I regard messageboards as conversations, not as repositories of knowledge. Hence, I think they provide a service - even if those of us who have been here a while have heard "pathfinder v 2.0 is going to come eventually - what do you think it needs?" debated countless times before, there are many who havent and who (by the looks of it) want to discuss it.

Community & Digital Content Director

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Moved this to Website Feedback. These kinds of requests don't belong in the general RPG discussion forum (that forum is dedicated to discussing the game itself).

In reference to the original post: we very likely won't be implementing either of these changes to our forums. Nested comments work OK when it's in reference to a blog post or similar, but it breaks up the flow of conversation we prefer to facilitate. Upvoting/downvoting isn't something we'd like to implement because it will likely promote drama that we just don't want here.


Scythia wrote:

I tend to suspect that threads which pop up constantly and repeatedly are most likely about issues that pop up repeatedly and constantly. My question is why these issues never seen to be addressed. While it's true that nothing will please everyone, doing nothing doesn't please anyone that isn't already happy with the status quo.

Just to chime in, here...

Some topics, I tend to refer to as "popcorn topics." They don't crop up so much because they're important, they crop up because we're gamers and chatting about caster-martial for the 2,000,000th time is just what we do. It's our equivalent of sitting on the back porch and shooting the breeze. If you go to an art major and ask the question, what is art? ...the debate is much the same. The topics are familiar and everyone has an opinion in the debate.

It's one of those topics we just use to relate to one another, in an odd way. There's no real solution--because everyone has a different opinion and they're going to argue it back and forth. Pretty much forever. "What is art" is much the same. They're comfortable, frequent debates we may all have a side on.

Does it make them any less important? Possibly. Possibly not. It does mean that when topics like these do come up, it's time to relax, sit back, and grab the popcorn.

Also, as an aside--are you viewing the forum as a means of voting on the game? That may be a different approach...and a voting/points system attached to threads may actually accomplish your goal better.


graystone wrote:


Subforums for topics YOU don't like is pretty selfish IMO. I'm don't ask for special treatment to only see threads I'm interested in why do you thing you are special enough to deserve it?

Create Mr. Pitt wrote:


Maybe people like this repetitive argument nonsense, and maybe these forums just aren't for me. But it's sad because I love the community and interesting discussions that occur outside the white noise of the: Pathfinder 2.0; martial/caster disparity; and rogues suck debates and wish we could find a way to improve that.

These two quotes are interesting to me, because they show love of a forum in different ways.

Also, I recall something like this coming up from time to time. Also brought up:
- Because of the continual arguing between the same people, the threads were less enjoyable
- Someone coded an ignore function
- This made it better, though you still had caster-martial #326,563

...now, while the above exchange was pretty cool...an interesting response to the creation of an Ignore feature was the the people who had been arguing and who had been the cause of needing one--so much got very, very vocal, cussing and swearing about how there should NEVER be an ignore function...

...It could be that the posters who caused the issue were vocal because they really, really wanted to be heard. Because something was so important to them. However, it's something of a Catch-22. "I care in this way and get upset, and are therefore vocal in a way others consider rude" results in a Peter and the Wolf as well as a "I get your point, but you're really, really loud, are saying the same thing over and over, and I get your point...but you're just driving me away and I don't want to deal with how you sound at this point in time."

I can understand both sides. It can be hard when you care about something. It can also be frustrating to listen to it--and after a while you just tune it out, because it's how we as humans are going to cope. Which is then understandably frustrating to the other person.

I will always remember the rage over the introduction of the Ignore feature, though.

Grand Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The proposed changes to the forum would be a huge change, a complete rewrite of the DNA of this site. Paizo.com would literally cease to be what it is and become something new. The forum we have now wasn't necessarily designed this way; it's evolved organically over the years. The forums and the community are reflections of one another.

I'm not entirely opposed to change, but these changes seem superfluous. As I said before, making the forums here more like Reddit isn't really a positive thing, in my mind.

-Skeld

PS:Are the guys at Reddit still looking for the Boston Bombers? ;)

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