Iconic Heroes Sets 4 & 5


Pathfinder Adventure Card Game General Discussion

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Erik gave some details on Iconic Heroes sets 4 and 5 in yesterday's blog post in case anyone missed it. The products are also now listed, so the characters on each are known.

Set 4
Set 5


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Yeah, good news, bad news. Nice to see the new characters but kinda bummed about waiting until November and January.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

With those announcements, I still count 13 Iconics which have not appeared in this series, plus any related animal friends...

Spoiler:

Feiya (and Daji)
Hayato
Lem
Quinn
Reiko
Seltyiel
Mavaro
Estra
Rivani
Erasmus
Kineticist
Mesmerist
Vigilante

So I hope we will eventually see Sets beyond 6 :)


Any news which cards will be connected to the heroes?
Who might have a blessing promo card?

So far we have 18 heroes released and only one Blessing (of Dawnflower), bad blessing ratio, right? There are 6 boon types and only 1 blessing out of 18 cards...
Does anybody know why?


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Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

No word on the cards. As for the blessing, my guess is this: the cards are supposed to be thematically tied to the characters. So I wouldn't expect to see a blessing other than with a "religious" class of character. Oloch, the Warpriest, might be the best remaining option for another blessing. Though there may be another thematic idea for him that would fit another type of card.

I don't think there is any intention to keep an even ratio on card types for these. It seems more geared to finding a card that best fits the theme of the character. So, while they are probably being careful to not have them all have Item cards, I don't think they care too much that there are some types represented less than others. And Monster has the same "bad" ratio as blessing and is much less likely to get another card. I wonder if we'll see other non-boons, like a barrier or even a location.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I would be curious how a promo location would work - generally those are determined by scenarios. We couldn't just shuffle it into the box like a normal promo card.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Yeah, but we've already got a spell in WotR that lets you bring in another location. So things like that could make it work.


What is the current promo type distribution regarding iconic card types?

Item 7?
Blessing 1
Weapon 2?
..


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Sad that after 5 sets, Lem is still unrepresented. :/

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Hawkmoon269 wrote:
Yeah, but we've already got a spell in WotR that lets you bring in another location. So things like that could make it work.

You're talking about an item, right? Cause I can't find a spell that does that.

But yeah, if there's more interaction with locations like that item in the future, then it could work.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
First World Bard wrote:
Sad that after 5 sets, Lem is still unrepresented. :/

Yea I was surprised we didn't get the core characters first.


Andrew L Klein wrote:
First World Bard wrote:
Sad that after 5 sets, Lem is still unrepresented. :/
Yea I was surprised we didn't get the core characters first.

Me too..i thought we get those who were already presented in RotR, SS and WotR FIRST.

These are the most important regarding game play...

The question is why they chose to release e.g.LEM LAST?
How the distribution in the boxes was decided etc...


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Myfly wrote:

The question is why they chose to release e.g.LEM LAST?

How the distribution in the boxes was decided etc...

Well, the answer that I got before is that it's because he's a little guy. They only want to release one small or smaller mini in each set, with the rest being mediums. Having companions in each set has kind of screwed Lem over. There's Harsk and Biter (small companion), Lini and Droogami (small iconic), Balazar and Padrig (small iconic), and Shardra and Kolo (small or tiny companion). I was hoping they would let Lem be in the set with Adowyn and Leryn (both medium iconic and companion!!), but they went with Enora instead. Feiya with Daji (small or tiny companion) has probably been getting delayed for the same reason, though I would have wished she would have taken priority over Shardra.

Anyway, as long as they all come out eventually, I don't really mind too much. I'll probably be waiting until Season 3 to play Lem in OP again anyway since Season 2 will be all about Damiel! Maybe the Set after Mummy's Mask could have a new version of Lem? I can dream, can't I?


Where's Lem? He's sorry!
(Little biased since he's my 2nd OP character.)

The thinking is that they'd rather have a solid theme around the boon rather than care about boon ratios. I hope they continue with that process rather than give Balthazar a blessing when he really needs his hat.

Silver Crusade

I'm sad that Quinn's not getting any love. One of the last iconics with no card game appearance or promise of one AND one of the last iconics with no mini. Investigators forever!


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Elizabeth Corrigan wrote:
I'm sad that Quinn's not getting any love. One of the last iconics with no card game appearance or promise of one AND one of the last iconics with no mini. Investigators forever!

Hayato and Reiko are in the same boat, except they came into existence about three years before Quinn! No Minkai love. Be nice if they made Jade Regent after Mummy's Mask and put all three of them in there. I think Quinn would do just fine in that adventure.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Iammars wrote:
Hawkmoon269 wrote:
Yeah, but we've already got a spell in WotR that lets you bring in another location. So things like that could make it work.

You're talking about an item, right? Cause I can't find a spell that does that.

But yeah, if there's more interaction with locations like that item in the future, then it could work.

Yeah, it is item. Planar Tuning Fork. Just got back from vacation and, having only briefly seen the card before leaving, confused myself on the rule type.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

I hope this means we get an alternate version of Kolo to use :)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Card Game, Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I noticed a jump in price as well, from $29.99 to $34.99.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Theryon Stormrune wrote:
I noticed a jump in price as well, from $29.99 to $34.99.

Which would be no big deal if it meant they came out sooner. * Harrumph *


I understand the concept of the size mattering. I just wish that the characters that are existingly in play would have been in these next two sets.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Also, keep in mind that WizKids has control over who is in what set. They also probably arranged the groups (beside just splitting up the smalls) so that there were "popular" characters in each set to help it sell well across the board. From what I gather, it took some convincing for the idea of an "open" set (where you know what you are getting) to even be possible. Without knowing too much about how such sets would sell (and how crazy card game players would be for it) they probably wanted to spread out the popular characters to help with sales. So Lem might be the "anchor" for Set 6.


jones314 wrote:
Theryon Stormrune wrote:
I noticed a jump in price as well, from $29.99 to $34.99.
Which would be no big deal if it meant they came out sooner. * Harrumph *

Well, 50cent is a DriveThruCard... Looks like they added 10 more promo cards to each upcoming set ;-)


Andrew L Klein wrote:
First World Bard wrote:
Sad that after 5 sets, Lem is still unrepresented. :/
Yea I was surprised we didn't get the core characters first.

They have to get you to buy them all by splitting them amongst all the sets.


You have to do it like this guy, the real businessman. Buying one set and selling it bit by bit...

The Valeros miniature from the still available iconic heroes set only is 16 Euro - almost 20 USD - and shipping is 8 USD within Germany. Thats the way to get rich!

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Pathfinder-Battles-001-Valeros-Human-Fighter-Iconic- Heroes-1-D-D-/371366936974?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item567731c18e

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Card Game, Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Myfly wrote:
jones314 wrote:
Theryon Stormrune wrote:
I noticed a jump in price as well, from $29.99 to $34.99.
Which would be no big deal if it meant they came out sooner. * Harrumph *
Well, 50cent is a DriveThruCard... Looks like they added 10 more promo cards to each upcoming set ;-)

Or they increased the cost by ~16%.


Theryon Stormrune wrote:
Myfly wrote:
jones314 wrote:
Theryon Stormrune wrote:
I noticed a jump in price as well, from $29.99 to $34.99.
Which would be no big deal if it meant they came out sooner. * Harrumph *
Well, 50cent is a DriveThruCard... Looks like they added 10 more promo cards to each upcoming set ;-)
Or they increased the cost by ~16%.

Or they have less customers buying the higher iconic heroes set numbers

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
jones314 wrote:
Theryon Stormrune wrote:
I noticed a jump in price as well, from $29.99 to $34.99.
Which would be no big deal if it meant they came out sooner. * Harrumph *

It would be a bigger deal if it came out sooner. A few months of inflation will erode at least some of the purchasing power of that large price increase, although it couldn't in so short a time equal the erosion in value.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Myfly wrote:
Theryon Stormrune wrote:
Myfly wrote:
jones314 wrote:
Theryon Stormrune wrote:
I noticed a jump in price as well, from $29.99 to $34.99.
Which would be no big deal if it meant they came out sooner. * Harrumph *
Well, 50cent is a DriveThruCard... Looks like they added 10 more promo cards to each upcoming set ;-)
Or they increased the cost by ~16%.
Or they have less customers buying the higher iconic heroes set numbers

A $5 jump on a $30 product would be a pretty heavy drop in customers. Considering the quality and inclusion of PACG products, and the fact that the older minis for some of these iconics are hard to find at good prices, you can almost guarantee that isn't the reason. That's a price increase you make for ma u reasons, but not a drop in sales.


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Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

I'm sad to see the price hike, especially since I'll be finishing the APs by the time I get some characters. I'm not big on collecting or having to have it all, so at the moment it is already a stretch to dish out additional $30. Not to mention I'm only mainly after the Iconic Heroes cards, and the mini's are just a plus. With the price increase I'm thinking of just finding someone to sell me just the cards.

And if Ranzak or Ekkie won't be in this line then it's an incomplete set anyway. Not to mention all the class deck characters. Unless of course after all the iconic minis are out, they release a 'Not Iconic Heroes' miniature line with PACG cards then I'll double down.


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Thanks for pointing these out Hawkmoon. I hadn't yet read the blog.

I would have been happier had they stayed $29, but I jumped in and pre-ordered each anyway. I want WizKids to know that this isn't a passing fad for the first three. I'm committed for as long as they keep releasing these, through the rest of the iconics, any new iconics, and even class deck packs would be amazing.

I /hate/ blind box buying minis, and generally will not risk the money on them. But they can get me to way overspend easily by showing me what's in the box.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Hawkmoon269 wrote:
Also, keep in mind that WizKids has control over who is in what set. They also probably arranged the groups (beside just splitting up the smalls) so that there were "popular" characters in each set to help it sell well across the board. From what I gather, it took some convincing for the idea of an "open" set (where you know what you are getting) to even be possible. Without knowing too much about how such sets would sell (and how crazy card game players would be for it) they probably wanted to spread out the popular characters to help with sales. So Lem might be the "anchor" for Set 6.

This is probably the main determination for scheduling miniatures. I wonder what proportion of sales go to people using the miniatures in PACG. Probably a minority.


I would predict the opposite of that good sir!


Troymk1 wrote:
I would predict the opposite of that good sir!

The German iconic heroes box ebay reseller has almost all pacg cards sold. He is still sitting on the miniatures... Want some?


Exactly my point

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

That actually doesn't prove the point. Those customers may very well have never bought the pack, and were just waiting for someone to sell their cards. Plus, you're talking about one country, and one that I assume doesn't take cover a huge part of Paizo's customer base.


All true Andrew, but it's a data point nonetheless.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

That is true

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

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Andrew L Klein wrote:
Myfly wrote:
Theryon Stormrune wrote:
Myfly wrote:
jones314 wrote:
Theryon Stormrune wrote:
I noticed a jump in price as well, from $29.99 to $34.99.
Which would be no big deal if it meant they came out sooner. * Harrumph *
Well, 50cent is a DriveThruCard... Looks like they added 10 more promo cards to each upcoming set ;-)
Or they increased the cost by ~16%.
Or they have less customers buying the higher iconic heroes set numbers
A $5 jump on a $30 product would be a pretty heavy drop in customers. Considering the quality and inclusion of PACG products, and the fact that the older minis for some of these iconics are hard to find at good prices, you can almost guarantee that isn't the reason. That's a price increase you make for ma u reasons, but not a drop in sales.

I don't know any more about the specifics of the price increase than you do—I didn't even know the price was increasing until WizKids solicited the new ones—but I can tell you that the price of the first 3 had to be set before they had made or sold them, while the price on the next ones was set *after* they had made and sold the first 3, so they were able to use *actual* costs and sales to determine the price. I would not be *at all* surprised to learn that the costs were higher than they had budgeted. (We might have talked them into more paint ops than they had planned....)


I want mounted Razz in set six. Lem too, but mostly for the promo, whereas I would pay good money for a Razz mini.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

pluvia33 wrote:
Myfly wrote:

The question is why they chose to release e.g.LEM LAST?

How the distribution in the boxes was decided etc...
Well, the answer that I got before is that it's because he's a little guy. They only want to release one small or smaller mini in each set, with the rest being mediums. Having companions in each set has kind of screwed Lem over. There's Harsk and Biter (small companion), Lini and Droogami (small iconic), Balazar and Padrig (small iconic), and Shardra and Kolo (small or tiny companion). I was hoping they would let Lem be in the set with Adowyn and Leryn (both medium iconic and companion!!), but they went with Enora instead. Feiya with Daji (small or tiny companion) has probably been getting delayed for the same reason, though I would have wished she would have taken priority over Shardra.

Apportioning the small figures is the primary reason for the Lem shuffling, and the fact that Lem has already been released by WizKids made it easier for other small characters to find spots before he did.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

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Hawkmoon269 wrote:
Also, keep in mind that WizKids has control over who is in what set.

WizKids looks to us to make the set lists for all of the minis sets, including these. For most sets, Erik does pretty much everything; in this case, he also took input from me.

Our number one priority was that we wanted to ensure that the line was successful right off the bat by putting our as many of our "most iconic" iconics in sets 1 and 2 as we could manage. (That is, the 11 classes from the Core Rulebook, which were also the 11 classes in RotR.) So from there, it's a matter of putting puzzle pieces together. Of those 11 characters, 3 are Small, and 2 of those 3 have Medium animal companions, making a total of 13 figures to fit into two 6-figure sets. As you can see, somebody gets left out... and it *can't* be one of the two Smalls that have an animal companion, or then we'd have only 11 of the core figures in the first two sets. And since we wanted to avoid having two Smalls in the same box for these, pushing Lem was the only possible answer.

After the core classes, our second most well-known group of iconics are the ones from the Advanced Player's Guide, so we decided to do an APG-themed set. That book has 6 iconics, of which 2 have animal companions, meaning there are 8 figures vying for 6 slots, so we would have to push back either Balazar and Padrig or Feiya and Daji. I don't recall exactly why—it may have had to do with Wrath coming up, or it may have had to do with the Shattered Star Feiya issue—but we decided to do Balazar and Padrig first.

Then, keeping in mind that the six sets were intended to cover the classes up to (but not including) Occult Adventures, we have 3 Small characters left (Shardra, Enora, and Lem), so those get divvied up (and the fact that we already had a Lem probably sent him to the back of that line); the 3 remaining characters who have animal companions (Shardra, Adowyn, and Feiya) get divided as well. From there, we did some gender-balancing and race-balancing until we thought things felt well-rounded, and ended up where we are.

Grand Lodge

Shardra is small? I thought she was a dwarf.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Dwarves aren't small. It's just humans that are bellycircumferencly challenged.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

He might have been talking about her companion, since they pretty much need to go together? But then Feiya would be in the same situation so that must not be it. I just checked my Harsk and he is indeed on a medium base while his companion is on a small one, so Vic must have just misspoke?

The only-one-small limit really does mess things up. With two remaining characters with small companions and two characters who are small themselves, either Lem or Feiya will have to be pushed to Set 7 if they want to continue to follow this rule.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

I misspoke re: Shardra...


What about set 6? Do they all 3 come in a row as the first 3 did?

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

When there's news about set 6, you'll hear it in one of Erik's Friday blogs.

Dark Archive

I'm sorry if this has been brought up before, but are these one time productions of each set from this line?

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

That's completely up to WizKids. But if I were you, I certainly wouldn't count on them coming back if they sell out.

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