Star Wars: The Force Awakens


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magnuskn wrote:
BigDTBone wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Hama wrote:
You're meh?
Yes, actually. It was a good movie, but I'd seen it before. It's not praiseworthy, unless you are comparing it to the prequels.

Have you seen the anti-cheese edits?

PM
AC
RS

Eh, I was on board with this until I saw that the dude took out the best line in the entire prequel trilogy, "So, this is how liberty dies. With thunderous applause".

Meh, the overall gains far outweigh any detractions from over-editing. The biggest take away is with about 60 minutes of material removed (combined across all three films) the prequels are actually pretty good. If Lucas could have dealt with a partner who was able and willing to tell him, "No," then they could have been something great. Oh, well.


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Irontruth wrote:
I have fond memories of D6 Star Wars, but I also consider the system to be inherently flawed and has serious balance issues.

In the 80's and 90's we decided to skip balance and have a over sized monster truck load of fun instead.

That being said, I did not feel Star Wars D6 was out of balance in the right hands, I was a very adaptive GM who put story first before the rules, and who forced players to cooperate to get the job done despite suicidal tendencies.


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If you have to set aside the rules in order to have fun/story, then the rules are bad.

It's like saying "My car is awesome. It breaks down a lot and is in the shop, but I enjoy walking so it doesn't matter."

Liberty's Edge

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Irontruth wrote:

If you have to set aside the rules in order to have fun/story, then the rules are bad.

It's like saying "My car is awesome. It breaks down a lot and is in the shop, but I enjoy walking so it doesn't matter."

D6 got unbalanced when people didn't apply the rules. Particularly the multi-tasking one. Or when the GM let a players make everything about their character as opposed to the adventure and the team.


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I have been reviewing the evidence and it is somewhat shocking to admit that Lucas may have indeed had a more sinister role for Jar Jar Binks. It could all be conjecture based on incorrect evaluation of events in the prequels, but by all rights the physical abilities Jar Jar displays at the battle of Naboo are extraordinary, such as those a sith might have.

I am still treating this as pure fun speculation but there seems to growing mass of people on the net that actually think Snoke is a disguised Jar Jar.


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Black Dougal wrote:

I have been reviewing the evidence and it is somewhat shocking to admit that Lucas may have indeed had a more sinister role for Jar Jar Binks. It could all be conjecture based on incorrect evaluation of events in the prequels, but by all rights the physical abilities Jar Jar displays at the battle of Naboo are extraordinary, such as those a sith might have.

I am still treating this as pure fun speculation but there seems to growing mass of people on the net that actually think Snoke is a disguised Jar Jar.

I really don't think so. Nothing against Andy Serkis (like, honestly, nothing against him; if you need someone for a motion capture performance, he's the guy to do it) but I can't see Abrams deciding to bring back every single cast member in their original role except Ahmed Best.

Anyhow, I enjoyed the hell out of myself watching the movie.

I think TOZ et al are correct in pointing out that it's not praiseworthy unless you comparing it to the prequel trilogy, but it's a fricken Star Wars movie, of course I'm going to compare it to the prequel trilogy. Like, just in my own head, on an emotional experience level.

Edit: Oops, you said Lucas, not Abrams, that's my bad. Also totally my bad, did I say "motion capture?" I'm really not sure you should call it that when all the guy does is sit in chair the whole time!


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Black Dougal wrote:

I have been reviewing the evidence and it is somewhat shocking to admit that Lucas may have indeed had a more sinister role for Jar Jar Binks. It could all be conjecture based on incorrect evaluation of events in the prequels, but by all rights the physical abilities Jar Jar displays at the battle of Naboo are extraordinary, such as those a sith might have.

I am still treating this as pure fun speculation but there seems to growing mass of people on the net that actually think Snoke is a disguised Jar Jar.

If anyone involved with the current movies is dumb enough to bring one of the most despised comic relief characters in the series back as the main villain, they deserve all of the fan wrath that will fall on them. Whether or not Lucas intended it originally or not.

OTOH, if they can actually pull off something that apparently stupid and make it work, they deserve all the praise and awards they'll get. But I really don't see that happening.


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Black Dougal wrote:

I have been reviewing the evidence and it is somewhat shocking to admit that Lucas may have indeed had a more sinister role for Jar Jar Binks. It could all be conjecture based on incorrect evaluation of events in the prequels, but by all rights the physical abilities Jar Jar displays at the battle of Naboo are extraordinary, such as those a sith might have.

I am still treating this as pure fun speculation but there seems to growing mass of people on the net that actually think Snoke is a disguised Jar Jar.

I don't think we'll ever see Jar Jar again, except as perhaps an oblique reference or background shot of a gungan. He'll play no role in the future of the series though.

I'm with you though. I think Lucas had a long term plan for Jar Jar, but abandoned it when significant segments of the fans ridiculed him. What that plan was is debatable (though I've now joined the crowd that thinks he was a secret villain), but it's clear that Lucas really intended Jar Jar to be much more central to the story, instead of fading into the background in EP 2 and 3.

Liberty's Edge

TriOmegaZero wrote:
Now I can read the rest of the thread and see if my "meh" reaction is widespread or not.

I was wonderin the same thing lol.

Liberty's Edge

TriOmegaZero wrote:
Hama wrote:
You're meh?
Yes, actually. It was a good movie, but I'd seen it before.

Spoiler:
i was waiting for somebody to say "sigh. cmon forrist; let's gawnin blowed up th deth storr. uh geeyin...."

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Heathansson wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Hama wrote:
You're meh?
Yes, actually. It was a good movie, but I'd seen it before.

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
I'm pretty sure that Han had that line in the war room scene.

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Krensky wrote:
Irontruth wrote:

If you have to set aside the rules in order to have fun/story, then the rules are bad.

It's like saying "My car is awesome. It breaks down a lot and is in the shop, but I enjoy walking so it doesn't matter."

D6 got unbalanced when people didn't apply the rules. Particularly the multi-tasking one. Or when the GM let a players make everything about their character as opposed to the adventure and the team.

can't favorite this enough.

Multitasking was a b~!*$.

Liberty's Edge

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magnuskn wrote:
Eh, I was on board with this until I saw that the dude took out the best line in the entire prequel trilogy, "So, this is how liberty dies. With thunderous applause".

Good line, but I prefer its predecessor;

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."

Which, was actually a shortened form of the even earlier;

'If fascism comes, he [James Waterman Wise, 1936] added, it will not be identified with any "shirt" movement, nor with an "insignia," but it will probably be "wrapped up in the American flag and heralded as a plea for liberty and preservation of the constitution."'

The Nazi allegory was thick in that scene, but the message remains valid and depressingly relevant to contemporary events.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
CBDunkerson wrote:
The Nazi allegory was thick in that scene, but the message remains valid and depressingly relevant to contemporary events.

All too true.


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I finally saw the new movie, and got caught up on 600! posts in this thread since I tuned out. Because of fear of spoilers plus honestly I was getting a bit tired of the media saturation.

SO...my non spoilerly review is that this felt way more like a Star Wars movie than the prequels, and J.J. Abrams did a pretty decent job capturing the tone. I don't think it's as good as the original trilogy, but a satisfactory film going experience, and I am kind of wondering what a second watch would do.

spoiler:

Pros:

Again, it did a good job capturing the feel of the first movies, to the point that I think kids watching this movie will be inspired to future Star Wars fandom. CGI never ran away from Abrams, nor did his visual style overwhelm things

The new characters are all fantastic, and for the most part avoid being younger copies of the original. Finn's storm trooper who breaks his brain-washing is great, as well as his flailing around at every situation. The fact that he completely averts the "damsel in distress" trope by usually falling victim to it was nice. Poe as the new Wedge was also decent, and yeah I liked his opening line to Kylo Ren. I think it was pretty obvious he was suppose to die well into the later drafts was evident, but the potential for future buddy hijinks with him and Finn make it worthwhile. Rey was...fine, but I think too much of her backstory is left missing for future installments to flesh out to really give a solid rating.

Kylo Ren...man I love Kylo Ren. The Dark side is all about emotion and anger, and man did he symbolize that with his berserk episodes. He's everything that Anakin should have been in the prequels, and the fact that unmasked...he looks so ordinary kind of works with the idea that evil is rather banal.

My biggest fear was that this movie would give in to the dark side (GET IT) and go for the nostalgia feels over characters or plot. For the most part I don't think this movie did. Most of the original characters are relevant to the plot in some fashion, and not just meant as nudges and winks (with the exception of R2D2, which uh…really doesn’t serve much function in the movie). Same goes with background and setting elements, although see below.

Also the diversity was nice and really did help in updating. We have female stormtroopers and officers, and the resistance is similarly diverse.

And speaking of Storm Troopers...Is this just me or is this the first movie where storm troopers actually seemed a threat? They perform quite well for most of the movie

Cons:

My biggest criticism was....well the way the movies adheres a bit too close to the structure and story of A New Hope. It felt overly familiar in a bad way, and some elements seemed to be more a check mark on things to add in. Cantina Scene: check; Giant superweapons that must be destroyed by a trench run and flying into the structure: check; Han Solo the smuggler? Check. And so on and so forth.

Two particular notes are worthwhile pointing out. One I am sick of the Superweapon plot, which has been rehashed in almost identical manners now in 3 movies, and was mentioned in a prequel. And now ITS EVEN BIGGER, even though the First Order if anything has even less resources and manpower than the original Empire. It also seems...rather dated? I mean in the original trilogy, super doomsday weapons seemed more relevant with the cold war and threat of nuclear devastation. Given the relative status of the First Order relative to the New Republic, you think this could have been updated to something a bit more relevant for our times and for the setting. Some sort of evil biowarfare attack or infiltration of the Republic, or a cyber type attack or series of well timed terrorist strikes. I mean there are ways in science fiction for evil groups to do bad things beyond building planetoid sized weapons.

Second, I still hate and find totally unrealistic the complete demilitarization of the New Republic, with the empire still existent (and powerful enough that remnants can build…again planet-sized weapons. It felt like they were trying too hard to recreate the scenario that the original trilogy operated under.

So yeah overall I enjoyed it. I just hope the future installments hold up and series fatigue doesn't set in (since we appear to be getting a new star wars nearly every year from now on until the heat death of the universe). And hopefully all the loose bits left hanging without much development get proper explanation (Snoke, Rey's past and exceptional abilities, Phasm actually doing something).

P.S. Does anyone thing that Snoke and the uh...alien whose name I forgot from the cantina scene, might belong to the same species? or somehow be related?

P.P.S. I couldn't help but imagine Felicity Snoke every time that character was referenced.


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Krensky wrote:
Irontruth wrote:

If you have to set aside the rules in order to have fun/story, then the rules are bad.

It's like saying "My car is awesome. It breaks down a lot and is in the shop, but I enjoy walking so it doesn't matter."

D6 got unbalanced when people didn't apply the rules. Particularly the multi-tasking one. Or when the GM let a players make everything about their character as opposed to the adventure and the team.

No, the game was unbalanced.

In addition, the method of getting a resolution number (rolling a pool of d6 and adding all the numbers together) creates unwieldy gulfs between different characters at different skill ranks. If you have a test that all the characters are presented with, such as jumping over a gap (as an example), for a character with 6D, the task is most likely ridiculously easy, while the character with 2D is at risk of falling to their death.

The problem can be common to skill based games, but I've found that the method of adding d6's together exacerbates the issue.

In comparison, Shadowrun's number of successes method creates a smaller gap. This both allows for more specialization (because bigger gaps are more forgiving) and makes creating challenges easier for the GM. For example, I think I could basically keep the stats the same, but swap over to a # of successes instead and have a smoother flowing system that's also easier to challenge the whole group with as the GM.

The damage system is clunky and just needs to be redone completely. We had way too many Wookies that would just eat thermal detonators and not care (or maybe get stunned).

The balance issues aren't bad if you only ever have characters with 6D in something. Once you have some people with 8-10D, it just makes anyone else irrelevant in that skill, even someone with 5-6D, but it isn't their primary specialization.


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Finally saw it tonight.

Thought no. 1: It's actually a Star Wars movie! Yay!

Thought no. 2: Rey is the best Disney princess.

Liberty's Edge

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Irontruth wrote:
Krensky wrote:
Irontruth wrote:

If you have to set aside the rules in order to have fun/story, then the rules are bad.

It's like saying "My car is awesome. It breaks down a lot and is in the shop, but I enjoy walking so it doesn't matter."

D6 got unbalanced when people didn't apply the rules. Particularly the multi-tasking one. Or when the GM let a players make everything about their character as opposed to the adventure and the team.

No, the game was unbalanced.

In addition, the method of getting a resolution number (rolling a pool of d6 and adding all the numbers together) creates unwieldy gulfs between different characters at different skill ranks. If you have a test that all the characters are presented with, such as jumping over a gap (as an example), for a character with 6D, the task is most likely ridiculously easy, while the character with 2D is at risk of falling to their death.

The problem can be common to skill based games, but I've found that the method of adding d6's together exacerbates the issue.

In comparison, Shadowrun's number of successes method creates a smaller gap. This both allows for more specialization (because bigger gaps are more forgiving) and makes creating challenges easier for the GM. For example, I think I could basically keep the stats the same, but swap over to a # of successes instead and have a smoother flowing system that's also easier to challenge the whole group with as the GM.

The damage system is clunky and just needs to be redone completely. We had way too many Wookies that would just eat thermal detonators and not care (or maybe get stunned).

The balance issues aren't bad if you only ever have characters with 6D in something. Once you have some people with 8-10D, it just makes anyone else irrelevant in that skill, even someone with 5-6D, but it isn't their primary specialization.

Spoken like someone who glanced at a rules summary but didn't actually read them, let alone play the game. I have never seen those issue in play.

Hint: PCs don't have pools that large.


Krensky wrote:
Irontruth wrote:
Krensky wrote:
Irontruth wrote:

If you have to set aside the rules in order to have fun/story, then the rules are bad.

It's like saying "My car is awesome. It breaks down a lot and is in the shop, but I enjoy walking so it doesn't matter."

D6 got unbalanced when people didn't apply the rules. Particularly the multi-tasking one. Or when the GM let a players make everything about their character as opposed to the adventure and the team.

No, the game was unbalanced.

In addition, the method of getting a resolution number (rolling a pool of d6 and adding all the numbers together) creates unwieldy gulfs between different characters at different skill ranks. If you have a test that all the characters are presented with, such as jumping over a gap (as an example), for a character with 6D, the task is most likely ridiculously easy, while the character with 2D is at risk of falling to their death.

The problem can be common to skill based games, but I've found that the method of adding d6's together exacerbates the issue.

In comparison, Shadowrun's number of successes method creates a smaller gap. This both allows for more specialization (because bigger gaps are more forgiving) and makes creating challenges easier for the GM. For example, I think I could basically keep the stats the same, but swap over to a # of successes instead and have a smoother flowing system that's also easier to challenge the whole group with as the GM.

The damage system is clunky and just needs to be redone completely. We had way too many Wookies that would just eat thermal detonators and not care (or maybe get stunned).

The balance issues aren't bad if you only ever have characters with 6D in something. Once you have some people with 8-10D, it just makes anyone else irrelevant in that skill, even someone with 5-6D, but it isn't their primary specialization.

Spoken like someone who glanced at a rules summary but didn't actually read them, let alone play.

Hint: PCs don't have pools that large.

Then where will I swim?


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Peter Stewart wrote:

As others have observed Lemmy,

** spoiler omitted **

As I recall it was Leia who wound up rescuing her "rescuers".


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Krensky wrote:
Irontruth wrote:
Krensky wrote:
Irontruth wrote:

If you have to set aside the rules in order to have fun/story, then the rules are bad.

It's like saying "My car is awesome. It breaks down a lot and is in the shop, but I enjoy walking so it doesn't matter."

D6 got unbalanced when people didn't apply the rules. Particularly the multi-tasking one. Or when the GM let a players make everything about their character as opposed to the adventure and the team.

No, the game was unbalanced.

In addition, the method of getting a resolution number (rolling a pool of d6 and adding all the numbers together) creates unwieldy gulfs between different characters at different skill ranks. If you have a test that all the characters are presented with, such as jumping over a gap (as an example), for a character with 6D, the task is most likely ridiculously easy, while the character with 2D is at risk of falling to their death.

The problem can be common to skill based games, but I've found that the method of adding d6's together exacerbates the issue.

In comparison, Shadowrun's number of successes method creates a smaller gap. This both allows for more specialization (because bigger gaps are more forgiving) and makes creating challenges easier for the GM. For example, I think I could basically keep the stats the same, but swap over to a # of successes instead and have a smoother flowing system that's also easier to challenge the whole group with as the GM.

The damage system is clunky and just needs to be redone completely. We had way too many Wookies that would just eat thermal detonators and not care (or maybe get stunned).

The balance issues aren't bad if you only ever have characters with 6D in something. Once you have some people with 8-10D, it just makes anyone else irrelevant in that skill, even someone with 5-6D, but it isn't their primary specialization.

Spoken like someone who glanced at a rules summary but didn't actually read them, let alone play...

How much you want to bet on your analysis of my experience? $100? $200? I could use some extra cash, so we can go as high as you want.

I did see those issues. I can't find it right now, but I remember reading an interview, or blog post, or forum post somewhere, from a designer where they talked about not testing "high level" play. It was something they just never did.

BTW, I played regularly from 1997 to 2001, then semi-regularly from 2001-2003, plus some more in 2008 and 2009. In our group, we have a nearly complete set of WEG books. I'm not some novice to the game. I could probably build a human starting character from memory.

Just because YOU didn't see something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.


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The princess insulting her captors, cursing them out, resisting torture, insulting her rescuers, and then is the most accurate shot in the original trilogy was a shrek level subversion of the trope at the time. People don't notice because its rather par for the course nowadays.


Irontruth wrote:
Krensky wrote:
Irontruth wrote:

If you have to set aside the rules in order to have fun/story, then the rules are bad.

It's like saying "My car is awesome. It breaks down a lot and is in the shop, but I enjoy walking so it doesn't matter."

D6 got unbalanced when people didn't apply the rules. Particularly the multi-tasking one. Or when the GM let a players make everything about their character as opposed to the adventure and the team.

No, the game was unbalanced.

In addition, the method of getting a resolution number (rolling a pool of d6 and adding all the numbers together) creates unwieldy gulfs between different characters at different skill ranks. If you have a test that all the characters are presented with, such as jumping over a gap (as an example), for a character with 6D, the task is most likely ridiculously easy, while the character with 2D is at risk of falling to their death.

The problem can be common to skill based games...

never had any of what you describe happen in a star wars game. I would suggest this is a DM issue, not a game issue. I have had what you describe happen in shadowrun several times when the same jerk was running it.


Irontruth wrote:
Krensky wrote:
Irontruth wrote:
Krensky wrote:
Irontruth wrote:

If you have to set aside the rules in order to have fun/story, then the rules are bad.

It's like saying "My car is awesome. It breaks down a lot and is in the shop, but I enjoy walking so it doesn't matter."

D6 got unbalanced when people didn't apply the rules. Particularly the multi-tasking one. Or when the GM let a players make everything about their character as opposed to the adventure and the team.

No, the game was unbalanced.

In addition, the method of getting a resolution number (rolling a pool of d6 and adding all the numbers together) creates unwieldy gulfs between different characters at different skill ranks. If you have a test that all the characters are presented with, such as jumping over a gap (as an example), for a character with 6D, the task is most likely ridiculously easy, while the character with 2D is at risk of falling to their death.

The problem can be common to skill based games, but I've found that the method of adding d6's together exacerbates the issue.

In comparison, Shadowrun's number of successes method creates a smaller gap. This both allows for more specialization (because bigger gaps are more forgiving) and makes creating challenges easier for the GM. For example, I think I could basically keep the stats the same, but swap over to a # of successes instead and have a smoother flowing system that's also easier to challenge the whole group with as the GM.

The damage system is clunky and just needs to be redone completely. We had way too many Wookies that would just eat thermal detonators and not care (or maybe get stunned).

The balance issues aren't bad if you only ever have characters with 6D in something. Once you have some people with 8-10D, it just makes anyone else irrelevant in that skill, even someone with 5-6D, but it isn't their primary specialization.

Spoken like someone who glanced at a rules summary but didn't actually
...

it seems you need to stop playing with jerks.


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I had fun with the game. I'm still friends with a majority of the people I played with in 1997 (some of them were jerks and I don't play with them anymore, but in the later years, these issues still existed). I just recognize the problems we encountered with the game system. There were elements of the system that were very fun. It was a fairly flexible system as well. It has probably the best balanced jedi, for around the first 0-150 character points, but around that point, they'll start to take over the show more and more.

I just don't have rose-colored glasses about the game and can admit that it has several weak points. Which, if I were to go back and play, I would want to try and fix now that I have a much better idea about game design.

It's cool that you two didn't see these problems. I did. If you'd like to challenge me on whether I saw them or not, I'm not sure how you're going to argue that, but you can try? I'll admit, I'm not the MOST experienced with the game, but I think it's fair to say I do actually have a bit of experience with it.

I also agree that Shadowrun can definitely suffer from these same or similar problems, particularly with various magic characters when they get giant pools of dice they can add to anything. The problem with die-pool games in general is if players start to get drastically different sized pools, it's hard to create interesting challenges for the group as a whole when you're the GM. They're either too easy for one person, or too hard for the group.


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Look, not to be a dingus, but maybe you guys could take the RPG discussion to an RPG thread, instead having here in the movie one?


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OK, here's an interesting take on the prequels: What they could have been.


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Saw it for a 4th time. Still liked it. I still have issues with it.

Dark Archive

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Irontruth wrote:
I could probably build a human starting character from memory

To be fair here (and Padawan's humility aside for one snowball on Tatooine minute), I am fairly certain I could build a staring character complete with skills and equipment for any alien race or human template for Star Wars, including some races I help define. And I am a former editor, developer, and STILL a fan of said rules.

The game was made to have a Star Wars film feel, fast paced and fun, easy to get beginners into, action and humor pilled in, we tried to create more of a story telling game. It was not a mini tactical min/max opus like say Pathfinder is.

If you were not a fan of those rules, then that's fair, BUT I hope you did have fun playing Heroes, Wookiees and Scoundrels with hearts of gold in a Galaxy, Far, Far Away.

Because that's exactly what we wanted you and your friends around the table to do.

As an aside at the very least, we helped create several canon materiel that still survives to this day and are considered fact in the Star Wars Galaxy, from Victory Class Star Destroyers to the focusing crystals of a lightsaber to deadly layered ecosystems of Kashyyyk.

The Imperial Security Bureau, that was us. Dengar had beef with Han Solo, ditto.

The names of the other three Star Destroyers, attached to Darth Vader's Death Squadron, (any fan can name the Executor, and some would remember the Avenger and Devastator but we needed to name the sister ships) - Conquest, Stalker,Tyrant, well that was me. And by golly it stuck.

Back to our movie discussion.

Dark Archive

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Speaking of Star Destroyers, I would like to point out that each of the OT movies had a Star Destroyer in the opening scene.

So did all of Timothy Zahn's Heir to The Empire books.

The Force Awakens joins that august tradition.

Continuing the tradition of the previous six films, OT and PT, there is no dialogue spoken in the final scene of The Force Awakens.

Dark Archive

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BigNorseWolf wrote:
The princess ... is the most accurate shot in the original trilogy

This is absolutely true. Very few people realize that shot for shot Leia had the best record in the Original Trilogy.

And she had a mean finishing move fatality choke as well.

Dark Archive

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Irontruth wrote:
Saw it for a 4th time. Still liked it. I still have issues with it.

The fifth times the charm.

I did see it five times, and there are questions that do creep up.

Spoiler:
Why could the Rebel Resistance High Command not evacuate?

Why did they give away their "secret location" to The First Order?

Why are there more high ranking flag officers in the Resistance High Command than there are actual starfighters to defend them.

How would the destruction of five planets in one system loyal to the Republic take out the entire Republic fleet?

Where were Starkiller Base Star Destroyer escorts during the Resistance attack.

How exactly did Han bypass the shields of Starkiller Base? He hyperspaced through them?!

Going by the size of Starkiller Base in the war room hologram, which was significant, how did Han and posse walk from their target to their next target, that would have taken hours.

Did Han know he was about to get shanked? Or did he fail his Sense Motive?

Exactly what kind of "captain" is Captain Phasma?

Dark Archive

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For those of you wondering how Captain Phasma got her armor, here is the untold story.

Dark Archive

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Some cool easter eggs.

Spoiler:
During the Falcon's second flight, Finn finds the Jedi training orb from Episode IV A New Hope.

During the end scene where we see Luke's face, he's supposed to be wearing Padme's necklace, which was a gift from Anakin in Episode I The Phantom Menace.

But I don't see it do you? I am guessing this is a misreport.

At the time of the film's release, Mark Hamill was older in real life than Sir Alec Guinness was when A New Hope was released in 1977.

That makes me pretty old as well.

Dark Archive

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The Force Awakens has a record breaking $1.091 billion in 12 days.


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baron arem heshvaun wrote:
The Force Awakens has a record breaking $1.091 billion in 12 days.

I'm kind of wondering why avatar is a record holder but no one ever mentions it anymore. Apparently i'm not the only one.

It hasn't opened in china yet, that ought to put it over the top.

Dark Archive

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BigNorseWolf wrote:
baron arem heshvaun wrote:
The Force Awakens has a record breaking $1.091 billion in 12 days.

I'm kind of wondering why avatar is a record holder but no one ever mentions it anymore. Apparently i'm not the only one.

It hasn't opened in china yet, that ought to put it over the top.

At long last those children adultlings in those sweatshops repurposed dockside warehouses will understand that all their hard work making toys and nick knacks serves a higher purpose.


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When Tarkin said, "Dantooine is too remote to make an effective demonstration ..."

Spoiler:
JJ Abrams seems to have interpreted that to mean that you could see Alderaan from all the other systems visually.

I felt the tension of the danger posed by the First Order dropped substantially after the Falcon and Han showed up and the First Order decided it was time to start blowing up planets. It is bit of an irony that the more dangerous they became, the less intimidating they come across. It is a bit like Snoke's hologram. The larger it is the less powerful he seems, as if he needs to overcompensate.


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I have that same problem.


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@ baron arem heshvaun:

baron arem heshvaun wrote:

How exactly did Han bypass the shields of Starkiller Base? He hyperspaced through them?!

Did Han know he was about to get shanked? Or did he fail his Sense Motive?

1) I thought Han was pretty explicit - that is exactly what he did. Han's just that good.

2) I thought Han had a "oh shit" expression on his face when he tried to take the saber and Kylo Ren wouldn't relinquish it - but in for a penny, in for a pound. I'm thinking Han knew it was going wrong but tried to see it through to the end. (And at that range, he wasn't getting away anyways.)

Also, I don't Kylo had made up his mind about killing Han until that moment.


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Evidently if you suggest ...

Spoiler:
Rey is a Mary Sue then you are sexist, because you didn't suggest Luke and Han were in the originals. It doesn't matter if she is better half-way through the first movie than both of them put together by the end of two movies. You are sexist for even questioning her description.

I mean, Luke is able to pilot a ship he has never flown before and make an impossible shot despite no evidence that he has ever piloted anything before. Well except Obi-Wan saying something about how he has heard that Luke has become a good pilot himself. And Luke telling Han he isn't such a bad pilot himself. Or Biggs telling Red Leader that Luke is the best bush pilot in the outer rim. Or Luke telling Wedge that he had hit moving creatures about the same size. But you know, nowhere it is established that Luke can actually pilot anything.

Did you forget how Luke picked up his light saber using the force before flying his x-wing. Come on, how you could you not complain about that being included. Or when the general didn't want him to fly and he waved his hand and said, "You want me to fly." And the general let him. Where did he learn that trick? And when he repaired R2-D2 after he got shot, where did he pick up those skills? See you are a horrible person for not complaining about the Gary Stu that was Luke in the first movie.


pres man wrote:

When Tarkin said, "Dantooine is too remote to make an effective demonstration ..."

** spoiler omitted **

This is the same man who seems to have thought that the planet Vulcan was within visual range of Delta Vega.


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Zhangar wrote:
@ baron arem heshvaun:
baron arem heshvaun wrote:


How exactly did Han bypass the shields of Starkiller Base? He hyperspaced through them?!
Did Han know he was about to get shanked? Or did he fail his Sense Motive?

1) I thought Han was pretty explicit - that is exactly what he did. Han's just that good.

2) I thought Han had a "oh s#+*" expression on his face when he tried to take the saber and Kylo Ren wouldn't relinquish it - but in for a penny, in for a pound. I'm thinking Han knew it was going wrong but tried to see it through to the end. (And at that range, he wasn't getting away anyways.)

Also, I don't Kylo had made up his mind about killing Han until that moment.

Spoiler:
Also what Kylo was saying could easily be interpreted as him wanting to commit suicide. "I'm being torn apart. I want to be free of this pain. I know what I have to do but I don't know if I have the strength to do it."
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
This is the same man who seems to have thought that the planet Vulcan was within visual range of Delta Vega.

"What is this thing and what would you need it for?" - JJ Abrams

Sovereign Court

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pres man wrote:

Evidently if you suggest ...

Spoiler:
Rey is a Mary Sue then you are sexist, because you didn't suggest Luke and Han were in the originals. It doesn't matter if she is better half-way through the first movie than both of them put together by the end of two movies. You are sexist for even questioning her description.

I mean, Luke is able to pilot a ship he has never flown before and make an impossible shot despite no evidence that he has ever piloted anything before. Well except Obi-Wan saying something about how he has heard that Luke has become a good pilot himself. And Luke telling Han he isn't such a bad pilot himself. Or Biggs telling Red Leader that Luke is the best bush pilot in the outer rim. Or Luke telling Wedge that he had hit moving creatures about the same size. But you know, nowhere it is established that Luke can actually pilot anything.

Did you forget how Luke picked up his light saber using the force before flying his x-wing. Come on, how you could you not complain about that being included. Or when the general didn't want him to fly and he waved his hand and said, "You want me to fly." And the general let him. Where did he learn that trick? And when he repaired R2-D2 after he got shot, where did he pick up those skills? See you are a horrible person for not complaining about the Gary Stu that was Luke in the first movie.

Spoiler:
Well, Ray is established from the start to have good hand to hand skills, after all she fights two (or three) guys much larger and heavier than her and beats the living crap out of them. She is established as a good mechanic and as a good pilot (how much of that can be attributed to force senistivity is debatable).

So, yes, calling her a Mary Sue is absolute BS.


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Hama wrote:
pres man wrote:

Evidently if you suggest ...

** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
Though there's even less used to establish her as being a good pilot than Luke. Does she even say anything about flying before running for the ship. Even when she takes off in the Falcon, it's portrayed as clumsy at first - until she's pulling off crazy smuggler maneuvers.

The fighting & mechanics didn't bother me. That was established.
That she got as far as she did with the Force with no training shown or even prior awareness that she was force sensitive did bother me. Could be averted if they later show us that she was a mind-wiped student of Lukes or some such.

Scarab Sages

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thejeff wrote:
Spoiler:
That she got as far as she did with the Force with no training shown or even prior awareness that she was force sensitive did bother me. Could be averted if they later show us that she was a mind-wiped student of Lukes or some such.

Spoiler:
It's strongly suggested that she is when we got the vision of her being left on Jakku as a child when she touched the lightsaber.

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Yeah,

Spoiler:
Between the lightsaber vision and Kylo Ren's "WHAT GIRL?" there's the implication that she's the spot he missed.


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Spoiler:
Definitely hinted at, though I didn't see anything in the vision that directly pointed at Jedi. Nor anything that really pointed at her having training as opposed to just being Luke's kid or somesuch. But those hints are the only reason I even raised it, rather than just leaving it as unexplained. They can always include unmentioned pilot training in full backstory in the next episode, but that still doesn't justify it in this one. The hints give them leeway.

Sovereign Court

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Spoiler:
Well she was flying the best smuggling ship in the galaxy.


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Spoiler:
Hama wrote:
Well she was flying the best smuggling ship in the galaxy.

Yeah, it's like the Falcon makes anyone who flies it fly like a highly skilled lunatic. :)

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