Armor Spike and Reach Weapon > Threaten 5 and 10 feet?


Rules Questions

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claudekennilol wrote:


The spikes can't require a physical hand because there is armor that does not have anything to do with hands that can have spikes.

Assuming that the game is perfectly logical and without contradiction all the way through will lead you to the loony bin, quickly.

For PFS the no answer is binding. For all other answers ask your DM to look into it.


blackbloodtroll wrote:

I can live with that.

Amen. Testify!


BadBird wrote:
graystone wrote:
Asking why goes against "the design team has explicitly stated that FAQs aren't meant to be used to state anything more than they explicitly do." You aren't meant to extrapolate anything as it isn't relevant presumably. It's why I'm only sure a few feats actually work with rays as the rest may or may not be 'weapon' enough to work/not work.

Out of curiosity, do you have a link to that? I don't remember seeing it, and it's potentially a very useful statement. Among other things, it would mean that 2H/TWF is legal so long as it isn't with armor spikes.

As it is, it's difficult to avoid implied consequences...

"Can we go shoot pool at your house?"
"No. My house burned down."
"...can we go play ping pong at your house?"

I know Mark told me this straight out in the thread about the OTHER unwritten rule FAQ, stat bonuses having two sources. When I asked how we could ever know what constitutes a source and how we could ever tell if anything untyped would ever stack again, I was told that 'FAQs aren't meant to be used to state anything more than they explicitly do.' I've seen him say it in other places but I don't recall them at this time.

I can try to dig up a quote, but it may take a while.

BigNorseWolf wrote:


The FAQs might not, but overtly stated developer intent is.

Wouldn't that be a textbook definition of RAI? I thought we where talking about RAW.

Sovereign Court

graystone wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:


The FAQs might not, but overtly stated developer intent is.
Wouldn't that be a textbook definition of RAI? I thought we where talking about RAW.

Wait... there's a textbook defining RAI? I thought that we had just sort of figured out what it meant on our own based upon context. :P

Grand Lodge

BadBird wrote:
graystone wrote:
Asking why goes against "the design team has explicitly stated that FAQs aren't meant to be used to state anything more than they explicitly do." You aren't meant to extrapolate anything as it isn't relevant presumably. It's why I'm only sure a few feats actually work with rays as the rest may or may not be 'weapon' enough to work/not work.
Out of curiosity, do you have a link to that?

Here you go.

Mark Seifter wrote:
A FAQ has the scope that the FAQ says it has. In this case, the scope is incorporeality and counting as magic, no more, but also no less.


Charon's Little Helper wrote:
graystone wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:


The FAQs might not, but overtly stated developer intent is.
Wouldn't that be a textbook definition of RAI? I thought we where talking about RAW.
Wait... there's a textbook defining RAI? I thought that we had just sort of figured out what it meant on our own based upon context. :P

Well developer intent = Rules as Intended seems pretty straight forward equivalence.

And as BigNorseWolf sayed, it's "stated", meaning there would be no need to infer anything based on context.


Jeff Merola wrote:
BadBird wrote:
graystone wrote:
Asking why goes against "the design team has explicitly stated that FAQs aren't meant to be used to state anything more than they explicitly do." You aren't meant to extrapolate anything as it isn't relevant presumably. It's why I'm only sure a few feats actually work with rays as the rest may or may not be 'weapon' enough to work/not work.
Out of curiosity, do you have a link to that?

Here you go.

Mark Seifter wrote:
A FAQ has the scope that the FAQ says it has. In this case, the scope is incorporeality and counting as magic, no more, but also no less.

Thanks! This saves me the trouble of digging up the post I was thinking of.


Interesting... so if abandoning all interpretation and extrapolation, the FAQ simply states that you can't 2H/TWF with armor spikes, and doesn't impact either how armor spikes are normally used or other 2H/TWF. Somehow I doubt anything is going to be that simple in forumland... oh well.


Well, the quote that some guy put down was basically 4 years old, because I've read that thread, and eventually the developer stop replying.

So, I guess we'll have to wait another 4 for a reply.


Well if you want to avoid 'controversy' there's always the Titan Mauler Barbarian for using reach weapon one-handed, or just plain unarmed strikes. There are some pretty interesting ways to combine unarmed strike and a polearm, and you can flavor the unarmed strikes beating on foes with the fists holding the haft. With something like Snake Style you could even have a build where you get a reach AoO and then a close AoO against the same charge.


BadBird wrote:
Well if you want to avoid 'controversy' there's always the Titan Mauler Barbarian for using reach weapon one-handed, or just plain unarmed strikes. There are some pretty interesting ways to combine unarmed strike and a polearm, and you can flavor the unarmed strikes beating on foes with the fists holding the haft. With something like Snake Style you could even have a build where you get a reach AoO and then a close AoO against the same charge.

Yeah, I'm starting a new campaign with a newbie DM eheh. Don't wanna burden him.

I don't have that many feats since I'm a cleric, but I'll be doing the classic drop Reach Weapon, Draw Morning Star, and be done with it.

At least I'll be maybe 1 or 2 free attacks. Having Combat Reflexes will help, not as much as being able to threaten everything, but still.

I hope they clarify it, usually we try to maximize our options, because as caster we know once a spell is cast, you're done. If I can help my party more, especially with damage, it always help.

Plus, to be honest, playing Heal Bot is never fun, trying to dish some damage and feel like you're doing something is always better


Charon's Little Helper wrote:
graystone wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:


The FAQs might not, but overtly stated developer intent is.
Wouldn't that be a textbook definition of RAI? I thought we where talking about RAW.
Wait... there's a textbook defining RAI? I thought that we had just sort of figured out what it meant on our own based upon context. :P

There is. It's unwritten, so hard to get a copy of it, but it does exist.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

so is there any conflict over this yet? pretty sure you do, you only choose which weapon you're wielding when you attack, just as the FAQ on attacking with two-weapons but not gaining bonus attacks.

Grand Lodge

graystone wrote:
Thanks! This saves me the trouble of digging up the post I was thinking of.

I'm pretty sure he said nearly the same thing about the new (couple weeks old now) FAQ about multiclassing and class skills being class abilities with regard to a Paladin losing his class skills if he falls from grace which was implied by class skills being class abilities.


claudekennilol wrote:
graystone wrote:
Thanks! This saves me the trouble of digging up the post I was thinking of.
I'm pretty sure he said nearly the same thing about the new (couple weeks old now) FAQ about multiclassing and class skills being class abilities with regard to a Paladin losing his class skills if he falls from grace which was implied by class skills being class abilities.

I know he said it in a few places but only recalled the thread he replied to me with it. I don't even remember the thread you mentioned but I'm not surprised he repeated it again.


Letric wrote:
I don't have that many feats since I'm a cleric, but I'll be doing the classic drop Reach Weapon, Draw Morning Star, and be done with it.

Cleric with a level of Monk opens up a whole ton of interesting options, like using a polearm for charge/reach/AoO and using flurry of blows unarmed strikes for full attacks (Monk means that you can cast Greater Magic Weapon on your fists, too). Sohei can flurry in Brawling armor, gets free dodge or reflexes, and opens up martial weapons. The Evangelist Cleric archetype can beef up combat ability for the whole party as well.


BadBird wrote:
Letric wrote:
I don't have that many feats since I'm a cleric, but I'll be doing the classic drop Reach Weapon, Draw Morning Star, and be done with it.
Cleric with a level of Monk opens up a whole ton of interesting options, like using a polearm for charge/reach/AoO and using flurry of blows unarmed strikes for full attacks (Monk means that you can cast Greater Magic Weapon on your fists, too). Sohei can flurry in Brawling armor, gets free dodge or reflexes, and opens up martial weapons. The Evangelist Cleric archetype can beef up combat ability for the whole party as well.

I'm only allowed Core Rulebook to create a Character, I'm starting a game with a newbie DM and he doesn't own any other books.


I see... well Cleric/Monk still can still work even if it loses a few of it's perks. If the typical mithral breastplate is 6+enchant, then a typical 20 wisdom, free dodge and either bracers or magic vestment enchant gets you to the same place. A level of Monk also has the benefit of bumping up all your saves. Oh, and if you're undecided on deity and domains, core plant domain can get you a damage buff to your unarmed strike, along with some nice spells.


BadBird wrote:
I see... well Cleric/Monk still can still work even if it loses a few of it's perks. If the typical mithral breastplate is 6+enchant, then a typical 20 wisdom, free dodge and either bracers or magic vestment enchant gets you to the same place. A level of Monk also has the benefit of bumping up all your saves. Oh, and if you're undecided on deity and domains, core plant domain can get you a damage buff to your unarmed strike, along with some nice spells.

Yeah! So far went with Desna and Liberation/Travel domain. Yes, the most broken ones lol.

I wasn't planning on doing any Reach whatsoever, but I read the Reach Cleric guide and it was a really interesting concept.
I don't feel like playing Monk mostly because of the alignment restriction.

Idea is honestly to have decent AC+HP to switch between melee and reach. I'm still undecided on Combat Casting.

Eventually my Acrobatics should be high enough to avoid AoO and in case that doesn't work, sometimes you just can't avoid AoO

Scarab Sages

If you go monk first and then switch to chaotic you retain all monk abilities and can still worship desna.


Imbicatus wrote:
If you go monk first and then switch to chaotic you retain all monk abilities and can still worship desna.

Oh, it does seem good enough. I'm losing 1 BAB though, but I gain a free feat, Wis to AC (thought it's going to be low, starting 14), flurry

Considering I'm starting at lvl 3, I'm losing level 2 spells, but I don't think it's a big deal.


Letric wrote:
I'm losing 1 BAB though

It's handy that when you flurry you get that BAB back.

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