Dual Identity needs scaling utility, otherwise, it will be a a tempting to give characters in an intrigue-based campaign a single level dip. If vigilante 5 isn't in some ways more appealing than brawler 4/vigilante 1, that's a problem. It seems like it's way too tempting in an intrigue-based campaign to snag a vigilante's ability to foil scrying.
The utility of dual identity should be balanced against other options for members of other classes. If the 1st level utility is so awesome, maybe it needs to be re-balanced.
Conversely, there ought to be some increased utility to the dual identity at higher levels.
My gut says that at 1st level, changing identities should be involved. Maybe not five minutes involved, but involved. By 3rd level, it should be competing as a disguise with spells and other skilled characters, so I would expect fairly quick changes.
I'm thinking that at 1st level, it could give you an automatic save against divination if someone tries to scry or detect the "wrong" identity. Or maybe it's just a generous save bonus that later turns into an auto-save. At higher levels, your identity could be more actively misleading; detect thoughts shows only your active identity, detect spells show an aura of your current identity, etc.
I'm giving this one bump in case anyone else had thoughts along these lines.
I like it.
I was thinking something along the lines of SR vs Divination equal to his total Bluff modifier.
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Here's what I came up with in this thread:
I used a blend of nondetection and scrying wording.
First, Because of his dual identity, if a divination is attempted against the vigilante, the caster of the divination must succeed on a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) against a DC of 11 + the vigilante class level. If the divination is attempted on the social identity when the target is under the vigilante identity (or vice-versa), the DC is 15 + the vigilante class level.
Then, in the specific case of scrying, assuming the caster made the caster level check shown above, if the vigilante is not in the identity targeted by the scryer, he gets a +15 bonus to his Will save (as if he was on another plane (+5) and as if the scryer had no knowledge of the target (+10))
Here's what I came up with in this thread:
I used a blend of nondetection and scrying wording.
First, Because of his dual identity, if a divination is attempted against the vigilante, the caster of the divination must succeed on a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) against a DC of 11 + the vigilante class level. If the divination is attempted on the social identity when the target is under the vigilante identity (or vice-versa), the DC is 15 + the vigilante class level.
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That is actually a really painful double edged sword.
The vigilante usually won't light up as having ANY magic items or auras on them 70% of the time while in social mode if the detect is done by an equal level caster. If people usually walk around with a couple of potions or things like that, they are going to look a bit suspicious. God help you of the caster detects a second time and hits that 30%. Nondetection is a MASSIVE alarm bell.
Plus not sensing the vigilante's mind with Detect Thoughts is even worse than getting thoughts unless the vigilante is actively thinking about things that give them away. That just screams "THIS PERSON IS NOT WHAT THEY SEEM".
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Addendum: I don't think low level characters are the subject of divinations much, and the higher level you go, I don't think having nondetection on would be all that uncommon in a plausible magic world... heck I think any rich guy would have it on for obvious reason (business trade secrets; personal information they wish to protect; family members they want to keep hidden from unscrupulous clients or business associates; etc.)
Similarly, our real world takes invasion of privacy very seriously (identity theft or someone hacking into your computer etc.) so the bigger the company or the richer someone gets, information security expenses increase proportionally...
So if a wizard tries to get a ping on a rich guy, and hits a firewall, I think that wouldn't be cause for suspicion but the wizard would perhaps gain a measure of respect or be more cautious/elaborate in his future attempts. Whichever way I see it, it's a good thing for the vigilante in this case. Plus the wizard may be aware that certain regular folks are trained against mental intrusions (rogues slippery mind; master spy PrC; certain traits / feats that let you roll Will save twice or let you roll one if normally not allowed to roll one, etc.) and technically, in terms of adventuring classes (not including NPC classes) there should be more rogues per capita than any other class in my opinion.
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I don't think divination protection is that big of a problem... but if the devs go that way they could add language to the effect that only the items, alignment, powers, etc. worn in the current identity are detectable and your other dormant identity is treated as being protected via nondetection.
That prevents silliness like 20th level wizards being unable to locate a 1st level vigilante...
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Yes, that's a bit silly. On the other hand, the security provided by flat immunity, rather than a miss chance, is very valuable. Perhaps something like uncanny dodge, where the inactive identity can only be targeted by someone 4 or more levels higher than you?
Associating items with an identity could be done any time you switch identities.
First off, I'm not part of this playtest, but I do read a lot of comics and watch superhero cartoons, so I wanted to point out something.
In the last episode of Season 4 of The Batman, Bruce Wayne meets the Martian Manhunter for the first time, who reads his mind. When he knows what's going on, he then puts "fake thoughts" in his head and that's all the Martian Manhunter can read.
A similar game mechanic can be found in Pathfinder already.
Mask of Virtue (Damnation)Your alignment is known to you and you alone.
Benefit(s): Those who try to learn your true alignment find it hidden or receive a false result. Depending on the number of damnation feats you possess, spells or special abilities that would normally reveal your alignment return a vague or incorrect result. If this feat disguises your alignment, you can use either your true alignment or the false one when using magic items with alignment prerequisites.
One Damnation Feat: The spell or special ability returns an inconclusive result.
Two Damnation Feats: Upon gaining this power, choose an alignment within one step of your actual alignment. Your alignment is always revealed as being that false alignment.
Three Damnation Feats: Upon gaining this power, choose an alignment within two steps of your actual alignment. Your alignment is always revealed as being this false alignment.
Four Damnation Feats: You immediately know when someone is attempting to use a spell or special ability to learn your alignment. You learn the name and alignment of the creature using the effect. Additionally, you can choose any alignment as the result returned by the spell or ability.
I would suggest (again, bearing in mind that I'm not part of the playtest) something similar. You can:
A) Choose a <false identity/alignment/thoughts/whatever> ahead of time and that's what people always detect in your current identity, AND/ORB) You can determine at the time of detection what is detected.
That could also work with the OPs scaling request. As you get better at masking your identity, you can start making things up on the fly.
Okay, I'll leave now :) I'm looking forward to seeing the final product!
What I was thinking, is that the entire "social" mechanic is something that should be applied to ALL characters in a given adventure path. Like some kind of overlay where the players play a vigilante team (not the same class). I think that would make for an interesting adventure, but it doesn't work with only one class benefitting.
The "social" mechanic is far to different of a mechanic and the devs are trying to assess the Vigilantes power level with it when it should be done without.
So take the "social" mechanic out of the Vigilante class and make it an overlay that can be given to the entire party. It would be too much of a devision in the party if the mechanic were to be role played properly by only one player.