What's so great about the oracle anyways?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

51 to 85 of 85 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>

Oh and the best part of being a CHA caster is when something tries to dominate your fighter lol. (Hint: pregame the encounter and dominate your own fighter ahead of.time lol)

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I have, in PFS, two oracles. They play very differently. One, a Kitsune named Bob, has a lot of control stuff that makes enemies do something else or waste their turns. The other is a duel cursed life oracle that is deaf and haunted.

Can't wait to get Oracles Burden.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Steven T. Helt wrote:
I just said time oracles.

lol.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Temporal Celerity/War Sight is an awesome revelation. I should roll a Time oracle at some point.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

So I attempted to make a new oracle using some of the advice in this thread.

Meet Cúran, an 8th-level elf oracle with a 12th-level animal companion. Like many elves, she is quite attuned to nature, so much so that the voices of nature spirits never really stop talking to her.

Conceptually, she's kind of cool, but I think it may well have been a mechanical failure. While creating her, I realized just how feat starved/ability starved oracles are. I really could have used a couple more feats and one or two more revelations. Unfortunately, to get more of the latter, you have to use the former, which doesn't really work for me.

The class needs more support, namely more curses, more revelations and more class-specific feats. It also should have had a revelation every other level like rogue talents or rage powers. The lack of those abilities along with the lackluster spell list really makes the class suffer in my opinion.

While putting her together it wasn't even that I found a starck lack of synergy, but rather more penalties and setbacks everywhere I turned.

Examples:
Much to my chagrin, the only curse that made sense for my concept penalizes nearly all her skills.

I was upset to find that Divine Protection actually makes your Reflex save weaker for having Prophetic Armor thanks to the new FAQ on ability score bonus stacking. (It would have been better for me to have kept Dexterity to the save, then added Charisma, rather than having Charisma get added to the save, then also replace the Dexterity modifier--then get nullified due to the no stacking FAQ.)

Again and again I kept running into little quirks and penalties that held her back. The kinds of things I don't see in other classes and characters.

Take my rogue who's geared towards debuffing, for example; there's TONS of synergy! Not so with the oracle, which seems much harder to pull off well. It's quite telling when it is easier to build a powerful rogue with a lot of synergy than it is a powerful oracle.

In the end, she can pull her weight in an adventuring party, but she doesn't really seem to stand out as anything special to me.

And yes, I know I'm missing the mnemonic vestment and scrolls; I ran out of character funds and wasn't willing to sacrifice the basics like saves or AC to get it. I don't know what the big deal is about that thing anyways. Saving scrolls and expanding your spell list is really nice, but it's still limited to only once per day. You'd have to ask your GM if you could pay the 5,000gp multiple times to end up with a variant that allows multiple uses per day for it to be anything more than a novelty.

How might you build an oracle with a similar concept better I ask? I even used 25-point buy and I still find it lacking.

Scarab Sages

Ravingdork wrote:


While putting her together it wasn't even that I found a starck lack of synergy, but rather more penalties and setbacks everywhere I turned.

Examples:
Much to my chagrin, the only curse that made sense for my concept penalizes nearly all her skills.

I was upset to find that Divine Protection actually makes your Reflex save weaker for having Prophetic Armor thanks to the new FAQ on ability score bonus stacking. (It would have been better for me to have kept Dexterity to the save, then added Charisma, rather than having Charisma get added to the save, then also replace the Dexterity modifier--then get nullified due to the no stacking FAQ.)

Prophetic Armor doesn't force you to use CHA instead of Dex permanently.

Quote:
Prophetic Armor (Ex): You are so in tune with your primal nature that your instincts often act to save you from danger that your civilized mind isn't even aware of. You may use your Charisma modifier (instead of your Dexterity modifier) as part of your Armor Class and all Reflex saving throws. Your armor's maximum Dexterity bonus applies to your Charisma, instead.

You can simply choose to use your Dex instead of CHA for that ability if it is more beneficial to you.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Imbicatus wrote:
You can simply choose to use your Dex instead of CHA for that ability if it is more beneficial to you.

Yes, but anyone taking it is likely to dump Dexterity, so that doesn't really help.

What is that little blue thing next to your name?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

A scarab.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Which represents... what exactly? Is it a lodge?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Of a sort.


Ravingdork wrote:

So I attempted to make a new oracle using some of the advice in this thread.

Meet Cúran, an 8th-level elf oracle with a 12th-level animal companion. Like many elves, she is quite attuned to nature, so much so that the voices of nature spirits never really stop talking to her.

Conceptually, she's kind of cool, but I think it may well have been a mechanical failure. While creating her, I realized just how feat starved/ability starved oracles are. I really could have used a couple more feats and one or two more revelations. Unfortunately, to get more of the latter, you have to use the former, which doesn't really work for me.

The downside of the versatility of the oracle is that the oracle class is not focused. Most other classes have a focus that lets Paizo design feats for them: a figher wants greatness in combat, a wizard wants more effective spells, a rogue wants to sneak, etc. Bards, another class devoted to versatility, have the same problem. Divine Protection is an overpowered feat for oracles, but it is generic.

A specific mystery is more focused, but the revelations and bonus spells are supposed to cover its needs.

Cúran is an elven woodland martial character, much like Legolas but with mystical magic instead of archery. That is a solid concept for roleplaying. Instead of taking the Nature revelation to gain an animal companion, you chose the more mystical Lunar revelation. Perhaps that is because for some non-thematic reason, the Nature revelation animal companion has to be a mount and allows only camel or horse for a medium character. Megaloceros (giant elk) could have been a better woodland companion and even counted as a mount.

Unfortunately, the Lunar revelation has a lycanthropy subtheme that does not fit Cúran. That renders a few of her revelations and spells less desireable for the character.

Ravingdork wrote:
Much to my chagrin, the only curse that made sense for my concept penalizes nearly all her skills.

Your concept was that nature would not leave her alone. That also allows Haunted curse, the nature spirits act on her physical surroundings rather than on her mind, or Deaf, all she can hear are nature spirits who don't say anything useful, or Wolf-scarred Face, nature manifests in her physical appearance.

The benefit of Shattered Psyche makes Divine Protection less important. Likewise for Prophetic Armor, as Ravingdork said. Maybe Divine Protection is not a useful feat for this character.


Flavor wise, the Oracle is one of my favorite classes- just cool.

The nuts and bolts of the class, leave them a little underwhelming in a fight. Their spell casting doesn't pack a whole lot of punch, considering the extremely limited number of spells known, and that the nature of their spell list is much less about pure damage output than their arcane cousin the Sorcerer. You really need to chose wisely when selecting spells. Balancing your Oracle's theme, while allowing them to survive, is not always easy.

That said, they are a really good utility class when you consider the options available in their class features- and for players that are not all about combat, the Oracle is a great pick.

The Oracle also has some of the best archetypes in my opinion. Lots of variety.


I like the oracle because it has a great deal of interesting mechanics built in and available to you as part of your innate class features.

.

You can build a full caster oracle who never enters melee that also has fun stuff to do outside of casting spells. Or pla ya divine caster wit hsome extra alternate role. Fire oracles have healing spelsl in one hand and blasting spells in the other for example.

Most oracles can also be built for melee. Gaining access to unique combat benefits, speed and more. For exampel the metal mystery Oracle that gains a lot of proficiencies with just one revelationm, as well a speed buff in another revelation. Stay right next to the fighter/barbarian/bloodrager and co-tank with him.

You like intrigue? Lots of Oracles get divination spells in their mysteries.

You like control? Some mysteries got that as well.

The thing that sells me the idea an mechanics of oracles in general is what they can do with mysteries.


Joe Hex wrote:

Flavor wise, the Oracle is one of my favorite classes- just cool.

The nuts and bolts of the class, leave them a little underwhelming in a fight. Their spell casting doesn't pack a whole lot of punch, considering the extremely limited number of spells known, and that the nature of their spell list is much less about pure damage output than their arcane cousin the Sorcerer. You really need to chose wisely when selecting spells. Balancing your Oracle's theme, while allowing them to survive, is not always easy.

That said, they are a really good utility class when you consider the options available in their class features- and for players that are not all about combat, the Oracle is a great pick.

The Oracle also has some of the best archetypes in my opinion. Lots of variety.

Um fire blaster is nasty still. And besides, blasting is always the weakest option for full casters... oh and Harm is a spell.


Oh the many forms ability from Dark Tapestry Combined with any of the racial FCB that boosts a revelation effective levl gets really fun


Chaoseffect used the best word to describe my love of oracles when he said modular design.

I much prefer spontaneous casting to prepared casting, since I like building flavour or some kind of theme into my spell lists, and if sorcerers were mechanically more like oracles I wouldn't really complain. (ie. choices in bloodline powers gained, bloodline spells added on even levels instead of odd).

The problem with the cleric spell list is that the vast quantity of niche or generally bad options distract from the many good options. I almost always find myself torn when trying to decide on spells known, and if I end up wanting more spells than I can take I think that's a sign of a good spell list, really.

I like curses because they're only ever really as severe as you want to make them, and designing characters with flaws can be a lot of fun.

Current oracle is a Dr. Facilier style shadowman. Simply picking Haunted curse and Occult mystery already gives me bucketloads of flavour from my class features, and that's before I start picking feats, spells known or anything else. Being a spontaneous caster means I get to think in advance how or if I want to reflavour any of my spells to be more in keeping with the theme of the character's powers. (eg. Sanctuary for this guy is accomplished by shrouding the target in shadows). Taking 2nd level spells as an example of spell choice, I had such a hard time picking between Martyr's Bargain, Pilfering Hand, Darkness, Silence, Spiritual Weapon, Cloud of Seasickness, Grace, Aboleth's Lung, Lesser Restoration, Communal Protection, Calm Emotions, Soothing Word, and Enthrall. (reflavoured where appropriate). As for the flaws, he's dual cursed Haunted and Legalistic, and I'm playing that with a sort of trickster fairy vibe, keeping to the letter of promises but not the spirit of them.


Very much agreed. The oracle does have some strong benefit of being able to specialize into some awesome thingS. I remember one of my favorite characters was a Wayang Oracle of the Dark Tapestry that used the Many Forms Revelation to great effect.


Oh agreed. The Crossblooded Sorcerer will have a 30 point lead in damage from a fireball over the Oracle. The oracle though can utilize things like the feat that lets you heal as you damage things with fire (forgot the name of the feat) and apply some cool stuff with their talents.

But RAW damage, the sorcerer wins.


Fire God's Blessing is not restricted to Divine classes.


Uh, you can just play a blaster oracle with 1 level draconic/orc sorcerer dip. I have built that for someone before that used it to great effect.


mplindustries wrote:
Uh, you can just play a blaster oracle with 1 level draconic/orc sorcerer dip. I have built that for someone before that used it to great effect.

Oh true, but i assumed he was talking full class oracle vs full class sorcerer. Obviously the crossblooded sorcerer is best as a Dip cclass lol. Ive played a blaster wizard enough times to have learned this lol.

@Rynjin

Huh i never noticed lol.


Ravingdork wrote:

So I attempted to make a new oracle using some of the advice in this thread.

Meet Cúran, an 8th-level elf oracle with a 12th-level animal companion. Like many elves, she is quite attuned to nature, so much so that the voices of nature spirits never really stop talking to her.

Conceptually, she's kind of cool, but I think it may well have been a mechanical failure. While creating her, I realized just how feat starved/ability starved oracles are. I really could have used a couple more feats and one or two more revelations. Unfortunately, to get more of the latter, you have to use the former, which doesn't really work for me.

The class needs more support, namely more curses, more revelations and more class-specific feats. It also should have had a revelation every other level like rogue talents or rage powers. The lack of those abilities along with the lackluster spell list really makes the class suffer in my opinion.

While putting her together it wasn't even that I found a starck lack of synergy, but rather more penalties and setbacks everywhere I turned.

That's because you were right the first time. It's not a well designed class. Your spell list is terribly unsuitable for limited spells known. It's designed for you to have everything. The class balance doesn't compensate for the nature of the list.

Essentially the Oracle is all toppings no ice cream. A lot of Paizo designed classes have that problem. If you want to build a character out of nuts and sprinkles the oracle is a good class to do it with, but you have to live with your character only having a single woefully undersized scoop of ice cream.


The Oracle has some amazing gems among all the assorted class archetypes and revelations.

Dual Cursed Oracles get access to Ill Omen and Misfortune for crippling enemy saves and other rolls. Since they have tons of spell slots they can throw around plenty of Quickened Ill Omen if they want, and to a limited extend you can still round out your spell-list for level 4 and up with revelation spells.

As was said before Charisma to AC is extremely good, particularly for melee Oracles. As an example, a Dual-Cursed Lore melee Oracle can use Sidestep Secret for potent strength and charisma (and charisma AC and maybe saves and initiative), take a single level of Barbarian and an Extra Rage or two for a dozen plus rounds of on-demand Rage per day (Lame for fatigue immunity), and then combine their spell-buffed, raging combat with hits of Ill Omen (potentially quickened) or Misfortune, with maybe a Bestow Curse or other offensive spell when desired... and then on the non-combat side, they can take the Focused Trance and perhaps the Think on It and Lore Keeper revelations to become knowledge gurus, plus maybe Automatic Writing for a free Commune every morning or Brain Drain for violent on-the-go interrogation.


@ RD - that's a weird, weird build, so I'm not surprised it's underwhelming - you built a melee elf who isn't that good at melee =P

I'd swap the con and Str scores (yes, she'll lose 8 HP; whatever, she's got a 10 HD animal companion as a body guard, who could actually take the body guard feat chain if you're really worried about it), and also swap status for a bull's strength spell (good for her AND good for the critter). Status is nice, but actually being able to function at your clearly intended combat role is more important.

I have no idea if Share Spell + Shield Other interact. If your GM would say yes, then cool, your companion can soak for you. If no, then ditch it for bull's strength instead, as soaking for an animal companion who's tougher than you AND can be replaced the next day is rather unwise =P

You built her playing to her weaknesses and then do so half-heartedly, which is why it's not surprising at all if she's underwhelming =P

Menacing enchant is pretty neat, though. Wasn't aware that was a thing now.

(Aside: Nice picture. Where do you usually get your character portraits from, anyways? Browsing DeviantArt?)

Re: nature oracle - As an oddity, the nature oracle's bonded mount actually gets a 6 int like it's a paladin mount. So the horsie can immediately start taking skills and feats that would otherwise be restricted, and actually hits a 10 Int if you eventually get it an item. It's actually pretty neat. (Heh. My half-elf nature oracle had the lame curse. That was kind of cheaty on my part, but hey, the gods gave her an awesome horse.)


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Zhangar, I've switched the ability scores, added bull's strength in lieu of status, and switched her curse out for haunted. You should be able to see the changes using the same link I posted earlier.

Overall, a minor difference in the character's overall power I think, though it is still an improvement.

I'm not sure share spell would matter with shield other. Couldn't I just cast it on my companion normally?

Menacing shows up on more of my characters than it probably should. It's such a good enchantment though! An additional +6 to hit just for flanking is simply too good to resist! (And it also gives allies at least a +4 to hit when they flank too!)

Nearly all of my artwork comes from DeviantArt. Some are modified however (my oracle's portrait, for example, looks nothing like the original; it possesses totally different tones/colors).


Reaching 1d8+8 after buffs (or 1d8+10 when swinging 2-handed; that'll eventually matter more with power attack; may want to look at using a buckler...) is still better than reaching 1d8+5 after buffs. Heh.

How shield other works is that when you cast it, you pick someone that you're going to absorb damage for. The link is only one-way, and it is always caster soaking for target.

Since it's not truly a personal spell, shield other doesn't work with the share spell - she doesn't have the option of having the animal companion do the soaking.

If your plan is for her to soak for the animal companion anyways, then nevermind.


Oracle is great as a dip for a class like Rogue.

Consider the party makeup, very likely to have a wizard which is just a freaking spells master but there's a few he doesn't have.

Outside of Wizard spells, there are only (as I see it) two generally great Cleric/oracle spells: Command and Murderous Command.

Command has so many options for a spontaneous spellcaster it's like having 4 spells in one. It may not seem that great like for example making them drop a weapon or go prone, you may ask "what's the difference from any number of spells with disarm or trip"?

The difference here is it makes them go prone or disarm themselves on their turn and categorically CANNOT RESOLVE IT. A big problem with ranged trip and disarm attacks is as soon as it becomes their go they just stand up or pick up their weapon, all you really did was cost them a move action and a brief moment from your turn to theirs of disarmed/prone.

This means you can cast, on their turn they wallow around on their belly for their whole turn, easily enough time for you and your allies to get close.

The retreat one is great if you've got a big bad brute, if he spends a whole turn running away... he would inevitably have to then spend a whole turn coming all the way back. That's him out of the fight for two rounds, he'll get back in time just to so his outnumbered confederates be routed.

approach is also amazingly useful for making a target give up their ideal defensive position or risk their lives on a dangerous jump. Command doesn't make them directly kill themselves but if they're on top of a 20ft high building they get no extra will save to avoid the urge to leap down to try to get after you. They must take the most direct even if dangerous route to get to you.

Murderous command can be an amazingly useful spell with RP/bluff that the group attacking your party has a traitor in their ranks. When one of their ranks does attack their own side you've got monster infighting, hit the big brute with low-will save and even when the spell ends are they likely to let bygones be bygones?

Another thing about oracle is the spells limits aren't so bad. Pearl of Power always had the limitation that the PoP took a standard action just to recover a used spell and then of course usually a standard action to recast it. The action economy was hopeless. Now Runestones of Power are used as part of casting. Though they cost more than PoP you can just treat them as having one extra spell-cast per day.

And the level 0 spells, how could I skip them. So freaking useful.

Create water can be so invaluable for a Rogue where pesky torches ruin their cover of darkness. Spam the cantrips Resistance, Virtue and Guidance on yourself and party any time you are out adventuring. Resistance is expensive to get permanent or equivalent in magic items, but what stops you just giving it constantly? Any wizard with any sense will be spamming Message constantly.

And if you're taking just a dip into Oracle, magical knack works to give you a starting CL of 3. That means you can cast level 2 Cleric spells from a scroll without needing to take any caster level check. So many circumstantially useful 2nd level divine spells, particularly for helping your party from negative effects.

I'm considering an Oracle dip for Rogue just to get Inflict Light Wounds. Yes, inflict, not cure. Infernal healing for post-battle recuperation. Being able to touch attack to do damage without light (unlike Flame Fountain Firework) is fa-bloody-tastic for when you're a rogue who otherwise depends on the effective bonus of flat footed which doesn't apply against foes with crap dex but huge armour also want to stay hidden in the dark.

Going with Battle Mystery and taking the revelation Surprising Charge

Being able to take a move action as an immediate action is HUGE, that's easily worth a level dip if you are something like a rogue where you depend on being sneaky you cannot afford to let yourself be surrounded.

And if you leave your dip you can get other revelations easily, either by a ring or a feat.

Curses are generally bad but there are some which are pretty neutral.

It's not so bad being a spontaneous caster for Cleric Spells. Certainly, beg plead and bully the GM to find a Cleric who will scribe you some scrolls, get a few of these:

Scrolls to use as Oracle:
Oth level, 12.5gp each:
-Stabilize
-Purify Food and Drink (removes poison)
-Detect Poison

1st Level, 25gp each:
-Deathwatch (20min with Salt)
-Dancing Lantern (potentially cheaper than potion-oil)
-Doom (Buffed demoralize (-2 on most rolls), for 1 min)
-Divine Favor (easy +1 luck to attack & damage, +2 with trait)
-Ironbeard: for non-caster allies straight +1AC
-Shield of Faith: 1 minute of +2 deflection (where wiz's Protection from Alignment too vague)

You're not going to need them every day, but these are definitely worth having.

Some higher scrolls are worth sticking in your back pocket for emergencies like a Scroll of Silence. You won't need it every day but MY GAAAAWD THAT SPELL. Completely shuts down spells with verbal component (i.e. most of them) and make any amount of racket and you won't be heard. Makes a rogue's job which is generally to be the scissors to a caster's paper in the rock-paper-scissors of combat much easier.

Yeah, dip into Oracle I think is fantastic. I wouldn't like to stick with it, but breathing life into a class that is otherwise getting diminished returns (like Rogue beyond around level 6) is where it shines.

Also great for RP.

Talk with your local GM about having a tremendous circumstance of near death and supernatural resolution at around the time you level up into Oracle be the staging point for your divine transformation from some guttersnipe thief into something far more magical.


Ravingdork wrote:

Zhangar, I've switched the ability scores, added bull's strength in lieu of status, and switched her curse out for haunted. You should be able to see the changes using the same link I posted earlier.

Overall, a minor difference in the character's overall power I think, though it is still an improvement.

I looked at the new Cúran. She seems to have a tighter focus on the character concept now. I would definitely appreciate a character like her in my party.

However, your work also illustrates another annoying downside of the oracle. Her Lunar mystery bonus spells don't fit the character concept well. I don't even understand why Fumbletongue is in the bonus spells, because it doesn't fit the Lunar theme either. As a GM I would let Cúran substitute the Nature or Life bonus spell list for the Lunar bonus spell list.

The limited spells known of an oracle increase the importance of the oracle bonus spells compared to the cleric bonus spells, so the frustration of an inappropriate bonus spell is likewise magnified. Well, the class is fun but not perfect.

Silver Crusade

Well i suppose I will chime in here and say that my very first Pathfinder character was an Angel-Blooded Aasimar Life Oracle and I could ROCK the healing. Life Oracles let you keep even the low level cure spells somewhat useful (Cure Light Wounds for 1d8+20 anybody?) and the Safe Curing Revelation makes them possible as a frontline medic. Add to that the fact that mine had high STR and Heavy Armor and I was a cross between a walking MASH unit and a Tank.

Community Manager

Removed some posts and their replies. Agree to disagree folks.

51 to 85 of 85 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / General Discussion / What's so great about the oracle anyways? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in General Discussion